The Brokeback Mountain movie purposely did Jack as a whorl? Annie did not at all?what is a "whorl"?
what is a "whorl"?
Oh yes, Jack in the book was quite unlikeable to me because he lied to Ennis in the motel room when he could have come clean. Ennis asks him if he has been with other guys after Ennis says that he has not. Jack lies, but it was really an unnecessary lie at that point in their relationship.
I'm not so sure Jack's lie was unnecessary at that point in the story. I don't have the text in front of me, but IIRC, Ennis has just said that he "knows" he isn't "queer," so I'd say Ennis is still grappling with things at that point. I think maybe Jack was afraid of how Ennis might react--that is, he might lose Ennis--if he (Jack) doesn't go along with the pretense that they're not "queer." Admitting that he had been with other guys--lots of other guys--in the intervening four years would have been tantamount to admitting that he's gay.
(http://www.mtv.com/shared/promoimages/movies/b/brokeback_mountain/jake/180x180.jpg) = (http://ridgesandfurrows.homestead.com/files/whorl.jpg) ?
(http://www.mtv.com/shared/promoimages/movies/b/brokeback_mountain/jake/180x180.jpg) = (http://ridgesandfurrows.homestead.com/files/whorl.jpg) ?
The only one who ever saw the beauty of Jack Twist was Ennis, and the only one who ever saw how really beautiful Ennis is was Jack. It´s like the truley best versions of each men only exist when they are together. When they are apart, the are both less. Without each other they are nothing more than shadows of the persons they could be.
I must confess that at times I´ve felt a bit antagonistic towards Jack, because of his many affairs. But I understand why he does what he does. I guess it´s just that that I feel a bit protective of Ennis and Ennis and Jack as a couple.
Just the thought of Jack being with another man that isn´t Ennis makes me a bit sick. It feels as though all other men saw him as a piece of meat, while the thing he had with Ennis was about so much more. Jack deserved better than some short back alley encounters. The only one who ever saw the beauty of Jack Twist was Ennis, and the only one who ever saw how really beautiful Ennis is was Jack. It´s like the truley best versions of each men only exist when they are together. When they are apart, the are both less. Without each other they are nothing more than shadows of the persons they could be.
The effect of Ennis's scene with OMT in the Twist kitchen is contingent upon both Ennis and OMT having an understanding that Jack did have an affair with Randall.
Jack had been to "Mexico" probably numerous times in the 20 years between 1963 and 1983, and probably had an ongoing dalliance with Randall - that fishing house on Lake Kemp came in handy. But, in the end, it was Ennis's shirt which was nestled in Jack's shirt, and in the closet scene in OMT's house, Ennis understood that in spite of Jack's wandering ways, it was Ennis that Jack loved, and vice versa.
1) Possibly. Or perhaps OMT mentioned the "affair" to hurt Ennis.
2) I don't think the old man was so much angry that Jack was gay than as he failed to bring Ennis up there to whip the ranch into shape.
3) Jack may have mentioned Randall to placate his father: that he would actually bring someone up there, perhaps after promising to move Ennis up; a move that never happened.
1) And he couldn't know that he could "hurt" Ennis unless he understood 2 things: Jack had a close relationship with both Ennis and Jack. So, both OMT and Ennis knew that Jack had "affairs"
2) I agree completely with that practical aspect of OMT. He wouldn't have let Ennis in the door if he wasn't partially resigned to his son's activities. That doesn't mean that OMT was fighting for gay rights! :laugh: But he wasn't like Ennis's father - who seems to have been a probable murdering homophobe.
3) good point, that ties in with OMT's comment about how "none of Jacks ideas ever come to pass". one of the most poignant lines in the movie, to me that underneath the gruff laconic exterior, OMT had to have loved his son but didn't understand how to relate to him.
It could be denial. OMT knows, but doesn´t wanna know.
2) I agree completely with that practical aspect of OMT. He wouldn't have let Ennis in the door if he wasn't partially resigned to his son's activities. That doesn't mean that OMT was fighting for gay rights! :laugh: But he wasn't like Ennis's father - who seems to have been a probable murdering homophobe.
I guess why I react more strongly to Jack/Randall then Ennis/Cassie is that Cassie never is any real threath to Jack/Ennis. To me they are both clearly gay so the Ennis/Cassie relationship is clearly due to Ennis´s need to live a "normal" (which to him means heterosexual) life.
But, I do believe he had an affair with Randall. I don't see it as anything worse than Ennis dating Cassie.
I guess why I react more strongly to Jack/Randall then Ennis/Cassie is that Cassie never is any real threath to Jack/Ennis. To me they are both clearly gay so the Ennis/Cassie relationship is clearly due to Ennis´s need to live a "normal" (which to him means heterosexual) life.
... neither one of them would have cheated, in all likelihood, if Ennis had just said "yes" to building a real life and relationship with Jack.
Your words are so poignant friend. I would like to add that neither one of them would have strayed, if Wyoming and the World had just said "yes" to their building a life and relationship together.I think you nailed it, Lee. Ennis said no because he never thought he could do otherwise. To have said yes would have been completely out of character.
Your words are so poignant friend. I would like to add that neither one of them would have strayed, if Wyoming and the World had just said "yes" to their building a life and relationship together.
I think you nailed it, Lee. Ennis said no because he never thought he could do otherwise. To have said yes would have been completely out of character.
You´re right in what you´re saying but to me it comes down to what the story is about. To me it´s not a story about a man who is so short-sighted that he destroys the only chance to happiness he has, but a story about how society (and indeed the Wyoming lanscape itself - it´s after all Annie Proulx we´re talking about) shapes its inhabitants. The impact is so strong that even gay people themelves are homophobes. Jack´s and Ennis´s destinies are decided from the get-go and through out the story they follow the paths that have been decided for them.
It may have been out of character and, yes society provided a lot of obstacles to their relationship. But IMHO, Jack was right. They could have set up a life together. They really could have. I truly believe (more and more so as time as a Brokie passes) that Ennis was very short sighted about ways they could have made things work.
Staying apart didn't protect them from anything. They were miserable and Jack died young anyway. Nothing about the arrangement they set up based on Ennis's fears "worked." Jack would have been willing to take the risk(s) that living together might involve. He wasn't naive, but he was aware enough to realize that living happily... even for a little while... would be preferable to prolonged misery year after year.
Ennis's vision of a "normal" or "conventional" life not only ruined his relationship with Jack but it made a lot of other people miserable (the women who got dragged into this primarily). Living apart didn't even keep their relationship secret. By the end there's a long list of characters who know about their relationship (Aguirre, Lureen, Jack's parents, probably Junior had some hint of this...).
this is always when I start to cry like a baby. Those two shots, one following the other...kills me dead
The look in Jack's eyes as he watched Ennis ride away, that quiet joy felt when you find a connection with another person. That's the true feeling for me, that and the cut away scene to the trail head parking lot, 20 years later, and his tired face portraying how thing turned out for him.
You´re right in what you´re saying but to me it comes down to what the story is about. To me it´s not a story about a man who is so short-sighted that he destroys the only chance to happiness he has, but a story about how society (and indeed the Wyoming lanscape itself - it´s after all Annie Proulx we´re talking about) shapes its inhabitants. The impact is so strong that even gay people themelves are homophobes. Jack´s and Ennis´s destinies are decided from the get-go and through out the story they follow the paths that have been decided for them.
They are almost puppets on strings. I don´t think it´s Ennis´s vision of a conventional life that destroys his and Jack´s relationship. It´s society´s vision (represented via Ennis) of a convetional life that destroys it.
I thought this over again, and you might be right. But it does seem to take a lot for them to go against society. Something like being alone together up on a mountain for an entire summer for example. ;)
But, I also don't think Ennis or Jack are puppets on strings. They each bear some personal and individual responsibility for their actions and decisions. There is always the opportunity for individuals to rebel or push back against society.