BetterMost, Wyoming & Brokeback Mountain Forum

Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond => Brokeback Mountain Open Forum => Topic started by: mvansand76 on August 29, 2006, 04:14:16 am

Title: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: mvansand76 on August 29, 2006, 04:14:16 am
If we do get a director's commentary on an upcoming special edition version of BBM, what would you like Ang to comment on?

 ::)
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: serious crayons on August 29, 2006, 12:30:30 pm
Who said "sorry" and/or "s'alright" in the tent scene, and whether or not Ennis said "I love you" in the closet scene!

 :laugh:

Really, those are among the things I'm most avidly curious about.

Also, it would be nice to hear him discuss what went into creating all the symbolism and metaphors and ingenious structural forms that we often try to analyze here: the buckets, signs, clothing colors, numbers, fans, mirrored scenes, echoed gestures and so on. Personally, I believe most of them are very deliberate and carefully planned (some of them, of course, were planned by Annie and are in the original story, but many exist only in the film). One of the most fascinating things about the movie for me is how thorough and complex and subtle these are.

What I'm not particularly interested in is Ang's analysis of the characters' inner lives or motivations: at what point Ennis recognized he was in love, why Jack stuck it out for 20 years, why Alma didn't tell Ennis what she saw, etc. I'd rather he left that for us to decide. Interpreting a work of art is a collaboration involving both creator and audience, and with a movie there are lots of creators. We tend to give the creators absolute authority, even if they don't agree among themselves. So I don't think anyone -- even Ang! even Diana and Larry!  even Heath or Jake! even Annie!-- has the last word.
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: nakymaton on August 29, 2006, 01:21:07 pm
I would like to know how they (Ang, screenwriters, or whoever) decided to film the second tent scene, rather than the various mountain scenes in the earlier drafts of the script. (The earlier drafts had scenes that mostly fleshed out the short descriptions in the story, hints of sex that just sort of happened, playful maybe, but not the sort of Really Important Moment like the second tent scene.) I think that the second tent scene is both an incredibly beautiful love scene and really critical to making the dynamic of the relationship work in the movie, even though I also think that the lack of it in the story makes the ending of the story more devastating. The inclusion of that scene seems like one of the keys to seeing how a movie and a story work differently from one another... and I'm curious how they ever figured out what, exactly, the mountain scenes needed to make the movie effective.

Because the second tent scene was added so late, my gut feeling says that Ang Lee felt it was needed... but I would like to know.
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: dly64 on August 29, 2006, 07:12:50 pm
I would like to know about the collaboration between Ang and the writers, the actors and the editor. I know some things … like it was Heath’s idea to switch the shirts around. I also heard that Ang had considered cutting out the reunion kiss altogether, but Diana and Larry lobbied hard to keep that in. I wonder what else was changed or adjusted!
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: David In Indy on August 29, 2006, 08:11:23 pm
Who said "sorry" and/or "s'alright" in the tent scene, and whether or not Ennis said "I love you" in the closet scene!

 

That is the exact same question I would ask too. I KNOW what I heard. But it would be nice to hear Ang Lee say it. There has been a lot of fur flying over this question.  :-X
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Shakesthecoffecan on August 29, 2006, 10:24:47 pm
I want to know about the water and milk thing.
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: serious crayons on August 29, 2006, 11:59:22 pm
I want to know about the water and milk thing.

Please excuse my ignorance, but what's the water and milk thing?
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: mvansand76 on August 30, 2006, 06:43:21 am
Please excuse my ignorance, but what's the water and milk thing?

In the extras Jake commented on Ang saying:
"You go together like milk and water..."(about Jake and Anne)
And Jake said that he had no idea what that meant...

 ;D
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: jpwagoneer1964 on August 30, 2006, 09:11:37 am
That is the exact same question I would ask too. I KNOW what I heard. But it would be nice to hear Ang Lee say it. There has been a lot of fur flying over this question.  :-X
I wonder if Ang/ Jake or Heath can even remember for sure two years later.
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: dly64 on August 30, 2006, 10:02:56 am
I wonder if Ang/ Jake or Heath can even remember for sure two years later.

Isn't that the cruel irony??
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: mvansand76 on August 30, 2006, 10:03:06 am

You don’t think that’d really clear up the debate, do you?
 ;)
That's hilarious!
 :laugh: :laugh: No way!
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: serious crayons on August 30, 2006, 12:33:48 pm
You don’t think that’d really clear up the debate, do you?
 ;)

Well, I haven't been persuaded to change my mind by the counterarguments of people who disagree with me, I haven't been persuaded by police officers using expert analysis and high-tech equipment ... so I guess there's no reason to be persuaded by the people who were actually there in person, and either said it or didn't say it themselves!

:laugh:


Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: SFEnnisSF on August 30, 2006, 08:59:56 pm
I would like to ask Ang if he feels he might have left things a little to ambiguous...  Perhaps if he feels he was a little too reserved in certain scenes?  Or does he still view the movie as perfect or his "vision"? 

I guess the real question I want to know is, is there any scene(s) he would like to go back and re-do, remove, or insert new?  :D  In retrospect, what might he have done differently?
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: serious crayons on August 31, 2006, 01:30:25 pm
I would like to ask Ang if he feels he might have left things a little to ambiguous...  Perhaps if he feels he was a little too reserved in certain scenes?  Or does he still view the movie as perfect or his "vision"? 

Sometimes I wonder if the scarcity of love scenes is entirely a way of illustrating the "never enough time" theme (as we sometimes theorize) or if it was partly a result of Ang being cautious about not offending straight viewers. I don't think he was stifled or cowed by that concern (hence TS1, half an hour into the movie). But did viewers' possible reactions cause him to hold back at all? And if so, in retrospect, seeing that the film stirred controversy but was also widely beloved and acclaimed and unexpectedly successful, would he have been any less restrained?

I'd like to hear him comment on that.
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: mvansand76 on August 31, 2006, 01:38:11 pm
Sometimes I wonder if the scarcity of love scenes is entirely a way of illustrating the "never enough time" theme (as we sometimes theorize) or if it was partly a result of Ang being cautious about not offending straight viewers. I don't think he was stifled or cowed by that concern (hence TS1, half an hour into the movie). But did viewers' possible reactions cause him to hold back at all? And if so, in retrospect, seeing that the film stirred controversy but was also widely beloved and acclaimed and unexpectedly successful, would he have been any less restrained?

I'd like to hear him comment on that.

That would be interesting, yes, I have always wondered about this as well. I am not sure if it is only the 'never enough time' theme, I tend to believe it's not. But on the other hand, there are more love scenes in the film than in the book! ;)
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: serious crayons on August 31, 2006, 03:51:13 pm
But on the other hand, there are more love scenes in the film than in the book! ;)

Well, yes and no. TS2 isn't in the book, and I'd never want to give that up! But the book contains more references to displays of affection -- even actual sex -- in their later lives. For example, when Jack says "Sometimes I miss you so much ..." Ennis just clams up and looks away. In the story, when Jack says something like that, Ennis pulls Jack closer and continues talking. Now THAT would have made a difference, wouldn't it!
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: jpwagoneer1964 on August 31, 2006, 04:05:11 pm
Well, yes and no. TS2 isn't in the book, and I'd never want to give that up! But the book contains more references to displays of affection -- even actual sex -- in their later lives. For example, when Jack says "Sometimes I miss you so much ..." Ennis just clams up and looks away. In the story, when Jack says something like that, Ennis pulls Jack closer and continues talking. Now THAT would have made a difference, wouldn't it!
Some how seeing Ennis and Jack in the tent made up for that at least to me. In the story and earlier screen plays there was no final embrace at the final lake scene. In the movie you know even if they didn't show Jack watch Ennis drive away that he stayed and took care of Ennis until he was able to leave.
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: serious crayons on August 31, 2006, 05:12:46 pm
Some how seeing Ennis and Jack in the tent made up for that at least to me.

That helps, but ... it doesn't quite make it all up.

* Sigh. * Never enough sex, never enou -- TIME. TIME. I mean, never enough TIME.
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: nakymaton on August 31, 2006, 06:54:05 pm
That helps, but ... it doesn't quite make it all up.

* Sigh. * Never enough sex, never enou -- TIME. TIME. I mean, never enough TIME.

Katherine!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: jpwagoneer1964 on September 01, 2006, 02:13:38 am
That helps, but ... it doesn't quite make it all up.
 
I guess i just think that Ennis and Jack seem like real people to many of us what we don't see are  private and were shown enough that we know things were as they always were between them.
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Penthesilea on September 01, 2006, 05:01:58 pm
Who said "sorry" and/or "s'alright" in the tent scene, and whether or not Ennis said "I love you" in the closet scene!

 :laugh:

Really, those are among the things I'm most avidly curious about.

Also, it would be nice to hear him discuss what went into creating all the symbolism and metaphors and ingenious structural forms that we often try to analyze here: the buckets, signs, clothing colors, numbers, fans, mirrored scenes, echoed gestures and so on. Personally, I believe most of them are very deliberate and carefully planned (some of them, of course, were planned by Annie and are in the original story, but many exist only in the film). One of the most fascinating things about the movie for me is how thorough and complex and subtle these are.

What I'm not particularly interested in is Ang's analysis of the characters' inner lives or motivations: at what point Ennis recognized he was in love, why Jack stuck it out for 20 years, why Alma didn't tell Ennis what she saw, etc. I'd rather he left that for us to decide. Interpreting a work of art is a collaboration involving both creator and audience, and with a movie there are lots of creators. We tend to give the creators absolute authority, even if they don't agree among themselves. So I don't think anyone -- even Ang! even Diana and Larry!  even Heath or Jake! even Annie!-- has the last word.


Gee! Katherine again you beat me with writing down my thoughts, lol.

I would LOVE to know about the sorrys and allrigths in TS2.

I'd like to have explained the symbolism, too. I'm always happy to read/hear snippets of interviews with Ang Lee, in which he affirms things we have discussed either here or on TOB. A well-known and more obvious example is the wind.
I too think Ang Lee put meticulous efforts into the tiniest details. I'd like to have more of them explained (which, when and WHY). Would be interesting to have confirmed or proven wrong our thoughts.

And I also agree that I'm not very interested in Lee explaining the characters inner motivations. At least for most scenes.
First for the reason Katherine mentioned: the interaction between a piece of art and it's audience.
And second because I think it would be quite superficial. Not because Ang Lee doesn't have a very good insight in the characters (granted that he has, self-evident) - but I think these aspects would be held superficial (by producers or whoever descides) in order to appeal a widespread audience. Would be made kind of idiot-proof and therefore dissapointing for us. (Does that sound snotnosed? Hope not. But given that the average moviegoer/DVD customer does not busy himself with a movie for months, it's not to be dismissed)

I would love to know why the "Tell you what" scene was altered from the 2003 script. Why did they cut out Ennis's response "I know the feeling"? I really miss it there and think it would have fit. It's not too forward. It would be in character for Ennis. I think they should have left it in the movie, as the movie's equivalent to Ennis's reaction in the story. For me, TS3 doesn't make up for it too.


I'd be also interested in the camera work. There are some scenes in which the camera work is very noticeable. Normally I don't even notice it, don't ponder about it (I'm no movie-buff). But there are some scenes, in which the camera angles or the movement of the camera is somehow different, demonstrative. I can't describe it, but I noticed it. Examples are the flashback and the lake scene for me. Aguirre seeing the happy tussle is another example, but this one is easy to explain and understand.
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: welliwont on September 01, 2006, 05:16:52 pm
That helps, but ... it doesn't quite make it all up.

* Sigh. * Never enough sex, never enou -- TIME. TIME. I mean, never enough TIME.

Why Katherine, all ya gotta do is read fanfic!!  sheesh!!   ;D  I got me a list, if ya want it...

J
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Mikaela on September 01, 2006, 06:31:45 pm
I'd like to hear more comments on the symbolism too. Especially the yin/yang aspects, I think.

Also I'd be interested in comments about the few scenes I don't think work that well - to hear why they're included and why AL think they work (since he kept them). For instance the "pissant" scene.

And naturally like the rest of you I'd like to hear why the later part of the relationship deliberately is portrayed with so few visible signs of affection; caresses, hugs, kisses and/or sex. I don't think that explanation will come as a surprise or be entirely contrary to what we believe is the reason for that filming and editing choice, - but still I'd like to hear Ang Lee himself discuss it.

Any comments he'd care to give on aspects of the incredible chemistry between the lead actors/main characters would also be very welcome, as that *never* ceases to amaze me and I like to have it praised or discussed or at least acknowledged.....

Oh, and comments on the much-discussed timeline conondrums, and the few quite endearing film goofs would be great - could make for a lighter tone inbetween int he commentary. For instance if he happened to explain at which point they realized that the way the scenes were filmed and edited, Bobby Twist really couldn't be 8 months at the time of the reunion and still be Jack's son....
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: nakymaton on September 01, 2006, 06:43:58 pm
You know, in reading this, I just realized...

I don't want a DVD with commentary.

I actually don't want to know any of those things. I don't want to hear Ang Lee talk about symbolism. I don't want to know who says what in TS2.

Stories about what it was like to film various scenes, yes. But interpretation? No. I don't want to hear any of it. (And if it turns out it's there, I won't buy the DVD, and I'll avoid discussion boards. Seriously. I don't want to know.)
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Mikaela on September 01, 2006, 07:10:17 pm
Well, it doesn't look like we're in any imminent danger of losing you since there's been no confirmation there'll be a DVD with any sort of commentary or additional bonus material, - no little news snippet of any kind that one is in the works........ I wonder if it'll ever happen.

Personally I do hope it'll be forthcoming at some not too distant point, though.  But if I'd have to choose between an Ang Lee commentary track and a Heath/Jake one, I'm afraid Ang Lee would lose out by miles!   

Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: j.U.d.E. on September 01, 2006, 07:34:54 pm
I would like to ask Ang if he feels he might have left things a little to ambiguous...  Perhaps if he feels he was a little too reserved in certain scenes?  Or does he still view the movie as perfect or his "vision"? 

I guess the real question I want to know is, is there any scene(s) he would like to go back and re-do, remove, or insert new?  :D  In retrospect, what might he have done differently?
Didn't I read or saw an interview with him somewhere, where he says he would have done some scenes differently, in hindsight? But I may be wrong.

As to whether he has left things a little too ambiguous (different in some parts with the book), I don't know.. If yes, then possibly on purpose. I don't know Ang Lee, I've never met him (only from afar) or talked to him, but he strikes me as being a very 'interior person, keeping a lot of stuff 'hidden' or inside. It's probably part of his culture and upbringing, but since he seems to be the most American/British Taiwanese there is, I think he mixes both, his cultural backgrounds well. Actually, I’m not quite sure where I want to go with this.. What I want to say is, that I think the more ambiguous, the better.. When I read your post Eric, I thought 'yes', right away – far too ambiguous - especially with the ‘I swear’ scene, which true meaning is and will be for a long time ferociously discussed. But then reading on, I though, wait.. 'no'.. not too ambiguous. And 'no' I don't want to know all these things. Don't tell us what Ennis means with 'Jack, I swear'. This ambiguity makes it a much stronger film (I'm not saying the book isn't!), than had he 'revealed' more. I keep guessing things and wondering about things, but do I really want a straight (no pun intended!) answer. Do we? I'm not sure about it anymore. I will keep asking questions, wanting to know, to understand, needing explanations, but then again, I'm quite happy and very well prepared never to have an answer to some of my questions. I mean, one reason being that otherwise this board (and others) would lose their fascination and possibly their reason to exist..

Don't know if my rambling is clear.. but while I was writing, I realized, that I want to be "kept in the dark" about some things, even if it's nagging me and even if I'm desperate to know..

Ok, that's not much clearer..  :-\ I’ll shut up now ;D

j. U. d. E.
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: serious crayons on September 02, 2006, 12:36:27 am
I don't want to hear any of it. (And if it turns out it's there, I won't buy the DVD, and I'll avoid discussion boards. Seriously. I don't want to know.)

Mel, you can probably go ahead and buy the DVD. I don't own the one that's out now, but I've rented it a few times. Yet I have never watched any of the commentary. None of it. I have a different reason: I can't stand to see any BBM star in "real life." I don't want to hear Heath speaking in an Australian accent and wearing sunglasses, don't want to see Jake looking like a self-assured 21st-century movie star. I wouldn't mind seeing Ang, I guess, but I haven't been curious enough to watch even him because I fear that, as Chrissi says, the level of discussion would be too superficial.

Discussions here might be a problem, though. If you like, we could label all the DVD-commentary threads accordingly, the way posters on imdb warn of SPOILERS.
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: jpwagoneer1964 on September 02, 2006, 01:46:40 am
Mel, you can probably go ahead and buy the DVD. I don't own the one that's out now, but I've rented it a few times. Yet I have never watched any of the commentary. None of it. I have a different reason: I can't stand to see any BBM star in "real life." I don't want to hear Heath speaking in an Australian accent and wearing sunglasses, don't want to see Jake looking like a self-assured 21st-century movie star. I wouldn't mind seeing Ang, I guess, but I haven't been curious enough to watch even him because I fear that, as Chrissi says, the level of discussion would be too superficial.

Discussions here might be a problem, though. If you like, we could label all the DVD-commentary threads accordingly, the way posters on imdb warn of SPOILERS.

I have the DVD but have ony seen the interview a couple of times. While Jake and Heath seen like very nice guys I will always think if them as Jack and Ennis.
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Mikaela on September 02, 2006, 09:21:32 am
Funny (or charming) how different we are in this! I love hearing Heath talking in his native tongue, wearing sunglasses and all.

And I'd like commentaries, because I don't take the director's or the actors' statements about their views and interpretations as gospel or the ultimate final immutable say on anything. They can shed lots of new light on topics, they can provide additional insights, they can explain how they themselves thought at the time - obviously given how they've immersed themselves in the story, the characters, their motivation, the meaning - but at the end of the day the film means what it means to me. Ennis and Jack and their story have a meaning that's uniquely mine - just as there's one that's uniquely Ang Lee's. It's not processed till I've interpreted it myself, - I think a lot of what comes across in the film was not even in all respects intentional, or at least came together in ways that worked better or on more levels than the filmmakers could consciously have envisaged.   

I think from the interviews I've seen that both Ang Lee and the actors are aware of this and entirely respectful of their audience's views and interpretations - never wanting to come across as if they have the one true answer to what anything means or what any character feels. They hardly could, after having striven so hard to make ambiguity the name of the BBM game. I remember one Jake interview during Oscar season where he seemed to have seen the film in somewhat of a new light himself after having read a review that got much attention on the discussion boards as well.

So I would love to listen to commentary tracks - in all honesty, Jake and Heath could read the New York telephone directory in their normal voices and dialects and I'd be majorly pleased. I like both their voices so much.  (Why isn't there a blushing icon available when you need it?  ;) ) Just hearing them all reminiscing about the shooting etc. would be great.  :)


The one thing I do not want to see,  is an extended version of the film. I'd love to see each and every outtake and scene cut for time, but not inserted into the film. No way. The film is perfect as it is. Tinkering with it to insert hippies, or an additional Ennis-vision of Jack's death or any other scene we know was actually filmed might ruin it for me. The flow of the thinkg, the emotions, the characters...... one little scene might change too much. So while I'm ready to campaign for a DVD with each and every deleted scene as a bonus feature on the side, and I wouldn't say no to seeing every single first night and second night and reunion takes while I'm dreaming - I'm saying: Please Focus - don't give us no extended film! Don't change what's perfect already!
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Front-Ranger on September 02, 2006, 10:03:31 am
I agree with you about the extended version, Mik. But, do you think we're ever going to get any kind of special edition? It seems like all of the players have gone on to other things and "forgotton" our beautiful film.  :( 'Xept for us devoted Brokies, who carry the torch. (My husband asks me exasperatedly, when will I be done with this? But I reply that at least it's a cheap obsession.)

But what I would like Ang to talk about is the "ink blot" or "bookends" structure of the film, was it intentional, and  has this been done on other of his films or those of his mentors? Or was he thinking more in terms of showing dualities? I know that he has commented before on building a yin/yang structure into his films. I was reading about this on the "A Ninth Viewing Observation" Thread, which is an awesome thread, for any of you who have missed it.
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: serious crayons on September 02, 2006, 11:59:54 am
Funny (or charming) how different we are in this! I love hearing Heath talking in his native tongue, wearing sunglasses and all.

Well, just to clarify, it's not that I find anything intrinsically unappealing about shades-wearing Aussie Heath (au contraire!). But one of my personal BBM-related psychological frailties is the confusion I get from seeing Jack and Ennis looking so different. Even weirder, I get kind of jealous of Jake and Heath because I fear they "know" Jack and Ennis better than I do!  ::)

I don't mean they understand the story better, though. Mikaela, I'm with you on not taking their statements as gospel. But again, it's confusing. I don't like having to fight the feeling that they might have some greater authority on the subject. I don't think they do, but it's easier just not to have to hear it.

I remember once getting in a protracted argument here over something Diana Ossana said about Ennis' "inability to access his emotions." My co-arguer used that to suport his view of Ennis' psychology. I had a different view, so I found myself having to debate not only him but also Diana, who supposedly would know more about Ennis' character than I would because she'd had a hand in creating it. I don't think Diana or anyone else is the ultimate authority. And I especially don't take as gospel someone's offhand five-word remark in an interview (or in this case, an essay). But I'd rather just not have her dragged into it in the first place.

Quote
I think from the interviews I've seen that both Ang Lee and the actors are aware of this and entirely respectful of their audience's views and interpretations - never wanting to come across as if they have the one true answer to what anything means or what any character feels.

I agree, and I really appreciate that, too.

Quote
I wouldn't say no to seeing every single first night and second night and reunion takes while I'm dreaming

Me neither! (Insert nonexistent blushing icon here)
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Mikaela on September 02, 2006, 12:34:36 pm
Quote
from Lee
But, do you think we're ever going to get any kind of special edition? It seems like all of the players have gone on to other things and "forgotton" our beautiful film.

I admit I'm gettting worried.  :-\ One reason that I remain so exceedingly peeved at the AMPAS for handing the Best Film Oscar where it didn't belong, is that I'm absolutely sure there would have been a collector's edition BBM if our film had gotten the "Best Film" nod. But still, it is a contemporary classic, it defined contemporary cultural discussion (and talk show jokes) for a good while,  it got more awards than any other of its year, and so I can't believe Focus would not want to prepare a DVD with more in-depth, informative and better bonus material than the meagre stuff on the currently available retail DVD.

But there's been no word that a collector's edition film is forthcoming. And even if it does happen somewhere down the road, the more time since the filming, the less spontaneous will be the commentaries. Which will be such a pity! Filming took place several years ago - the filming process will be dwindling in everyone's memory unless they get to it soonish. All those little things that die-hard fans like us would love to hear will be forgotten.  :-\  Focus, can you heaaaaaaar me?  ::) **stamps foot while making pleading puppy dog eyes**


Quote
From Katherine
it's not that I find anything intrinsically unappealing about shades-wearing Aussie Heath (au contraire!). But one of my personal BBM-related psychological frailties is the confusion I get from seeing Jack and Ennis looking so different.

Jake as himself looks pretty much like young Jack, I think, so there's not so much of a problem there. But Heath seems and looks to be Ennis's very opposite in many respects. I can say in all honesty that watching Heath Ledger interviews, apart from making me appreciate the actor himself a lot,  has given me a better understanding of what pure and true acting is all about. It's not so much what he says, but his behaviour while he says it. He fidgets and twitches and is constantly all over the place, seeming absolutely unable to keep his face, hands or eyes still for as much as a second. (Very charming, distinct personality, and it makes him seem like a completely *real* person, without artifice of any kind.) That he managed to transform himself into creating our Ennis Del Mar is a marvel of acting and a fantastic gift to acting appreciation. (And here I go, back to beeing peeved at the AMPAS some more, this time on Heath's behalf.  >:( )

Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: serious crayons on September 02, 2006, 01:17:20 pm
Jake as himself looks pretty much like young Jack, I think, so there's not so much of a problem there. But Heath seems and looks to be Ennis's very opposite in many respects. I can say in all honesty that watching Heath Ledger interviews, apart from making me appreciate the actor himself a lot,  has given me a better understanding of what pure and true acting is all about. It's not so much what he says, but his behaviour while he says it. He fidgets and twitches and is constantly all over the place, seeming absolutely unable to keep his face, hands or eyes still for as much as a second. (Very charming, distinct personality, and it makes him seem like a completely *real* person, without artifice of any kind.) That he managed to transform himself into creating our Ennis Del Mar is a marvel of acting and a fantastic gift to acting appreciation. (And here I go, back to beeing peeved at the AMPAS some more, this time on Heath's behalf.  >:( ) [/quote]

I agree with you about everything. Whereas Jake looks pretty much like Jack with an updated hairstyle (in retrospect, I should have excluded the reference to him in my earlier post), Heath and Ennis act and look so different it's almost hard to believe they are (sort of) the same person.

When some friends and I were talking recently about who we considered today's best actor (Sean Penn? Johnny Depp? etc.) I of course named Heath. Someone laughed outright at that, I guess because she felt Heath didn't have a resume full of great performances. And it's true that, while he has been good in some other movies, he doesn't have the long stellar history of Penn or Depp. But this one performance so eclipses all of theirs that I think it earns him the title.

And I, too, am permanently peeved at the AMPAS for the reasons you give. I feel bad for BBM and Heath not so much because they missed out on the temporarily and quickly forgotten applause at the award show itself. It's because they were denied all the perks that come with an Academy Award.
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Penthesilea on September 03, 2006, 12:24:03 pm
in all honesty, Jake and Heath could read the New York telephone directory in their normal voices and dialects and I'd be majorly pleased. I like both their voices so much.  (Why isn't there a blushing icon available when you need it?  ;) ) Just hearing them all reminiscing about the shooting etc. would be great.  :)

Yes yes and yes. We even had a poll about this  ;D Have you seen that youtube vid, where Jack narrates the story about Philippe Petit? I listened to it twice. First time I followed the story, second time I concentrated on Jake's voice. And I'm a Heathen, not a Gyllenhalic, lol.
But I like both their voices, too. Jake's is so sweet and Heath's is more manly, so deep *mmmm*

In case you haven't seen the vid, here it is. 10 minutes Jake's voice, reading "The Man Who Walked Beteween the Towers":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq52n9TyfO4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nq52n9TyfO4)


Quote
The one thing I do not want to see,  is an extended version of the film. I'd love to see each and every outtake and scene cut for time, but not inserted into the film. No way. The film is perfect as it is. Tinkering with it to insert hippies, or an additional Ennis-vision of Jack's death or any other scene we know was actually filmed might ruin it for me. The flow of the thinkg, the emotions, the characters...... one little scene might change too much. So while I'm ready to campaign for a DVD with each and every deleted scene as a bonus feature on the side, and I wouldn't say no to seeing every single first night and second night and reunion takes while I'm dreaming - I'm saying: Please Focus - don't give us no extended film! Don't change what's perfect already!

I agree. I want to see all deleted scenes, every bit part of it. David(inHartford) said, he'd even like to see every minute of those 20 years: Ennis in the shower, Jack doing his tax forms, Ennis working on a ranch, and so on. I like this thought of him, lol. Wouldn't mind Ennis in the shower (now I need a blushing icon, too).
But I would not want to see the deleted scenes inserted in the movie for the reasons you mentioned.
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Penthesilea on September 03, 2006, 01:28:39 pm
But Heath seems and looks to be Ennis's very opposite in many respects. I can say in all honesty that watching Heath Ledger interviews, apart from making me appreciate the actor himself a lot,  has given me a better understanding of what pure and true acting is all about. It's not so much what he says, but his behaviour while he says it. He fidgets and twitches and is constantly all over the place, seeming absolutely unable to keep his face, hands or eyes still for as much as a second. (Very charming, distinct personality, and it makes him seem like a completely *real* person, without artifice of any kind.) That he managed to transform himself into creating our Ennis Del Mar is a marvel of acting and a fantastic gift to acting appreciation. (And here I go, back to beeing peeved at the AMPAS some more, this time on Heath's behalf.  >:( )

*sigh* Again, I couldn't agree more. I wrote nearly the same long ago on TOB. I love Heath fidgeting and talking with his hands and face, it's sooooo cute (*insert another sigh*). He seems to be a nervous wreck in most interwievs. The first time I saw him in two interwievs on youtube, I was more than surprised.
I thought wow!, how could this agile, fidgety guy manage to portray our stoic and taciturn Ennis? He was so robbed of that Osacar!

And I like both so much: stoic, quiet Ennis and fidgety, agile Heath. And despite the differences in body language and demeanour I got the impression there is some Ennis in Heath. Not the tragic, full of self-doubt Ennis (hopefully for Heath), but some of Ennis's earnestness or seriousness or reliability (there's no word in the English language which is an exact translation for the German one I'm thinking of - hope you get the picture anyway). I mean I got the impression he's not one who shrugs off things easily.

Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Mikaela on September 03, 2006, 06:30:54 pm
Thank you for the link to the Towers story. It's lovely and lighthearted - not what I'd have expected just reading the title. Jake reads it well and lively, too.  :)


Quote
some of Ennis's earnestness or seriousness or reliability (there's no word in the English language which is an exact translation for the German one I'm thinking of - hope you get the picture anyway). I mean I got the impression he's not one who shrugs off things easily.

I've got the same impression and I do get the picture - it's well observed and accurately described. I'm curious as to which German word you're thinking of..... my German is too rusty these days but I'd like to know.  :)

Oh, and I'm *so* in agreement with your shower comment!  **Looks around for a bald little blushing icon, but there's none - so this one will have to suffice:  :-X **


Quote
From Katherine
Well, just to clarify, it's not that I find anything intrinsically unappealing about shades-wearing Aussie Heath (au contraire!). But one of my personal BBM-related psychological frailties is the confusion I get from seeing Jack and Ennis looking so different.

I realized there's one thing that gives me the exact same confused, head-spinning, alternate-reality feeling, and that is seeing various on-set pictures of Heath and Michelle cuddling in costume between takes. It's almost surreal to see Ennis and Alma so close and affectionate! 

Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Penthesilea on September 05, 2006, 11:47:03 am
I've got the same impression and I do get the picture - it's well observed and accurately described. I'm curious as to which German word you're thinking of..... my German is too rusty these days but I'd like to know.  :)

The German word was "Ernsthaftigkeit", which could be translated as earnestness. But my dictionary also offers graveness, seriousness, severity, sincerity, sobriety and wholeheartedness as translations.
But when translating the English words back to German (or knowing them and their common using), none of them hits the point exactly.

Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Mikaela on September 05, 2006, 11:55:51 am
Danke schön!  :)

I have the same difficulty sometimes in finding the exact English word that fits the expression I'm thinking of. Translation is a tricky but very interesting subject.


(I wonder why some of the smileys still are missing their Cowboy hats. They look doubly bald now that the others have them.......)
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: serious crayons on September 05, 2006, 12:04:49 pm
If you're still having a problem with the cowboy hats, reportedly it can be resolved by clearing your cache. I'm just glad to get the laughing one back!

 :laugh:

Back to Chrissi's earlier point, I think it's true that there seem to be similarities between Heath and Ennis, as well as between Jake and Jack. Heath is more serious, Jake more voluble. I'm sure they could switch roles and be convincing, because they are good actors. Still, it's hard to imagine. The casting was perfect.



Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: dly64 on September 06, 2006, 09:20:38 am
OMG you guys!! I am just getting caught up on some of these threads and I am cracking up because there are so many POV (but isn’t that the way it should be?)

In all honesty, I don’t want to see an extended version. There are very few extended versions that I think really augment the theatrical release version. Sometimes ex-versions even change the essence of the entire film. What I would like to see, however, are the deleted scenes. I know there are several since many of them were used in the trailer.

As for commentary, there should be three: Ang with the editor and cinematographer; Heath, Jake, Ann, and Michelle; and Diana Ossana and Larry McMurtry.

I agree that Ang would probably not give any commentary on motivation. From what I have read and heard … this guy speaks in riddles. (Ang in regards to Lureen and Jack: “You go together like milk and water.” Hunh?? Does anyone have a clue as to what that means??)

I like the idea of commentaries because they can be there for those who want to listen to them. I have found some commentaries very interesting and educational (like the Roger Ebert’s commentary for “Citizen Kane” or Sam Mendes commentary for “Jarhead.”)

What I would like the most, in all honesty, is a nicely packaged DVD that has photos and production logs, etc. That’s just me. Does anyone else agree?


Forgot to add ... I want to see outtakes. I love that kind of stuff.
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Front-Ranger on September 06, 2006, 09:41:31 am
Yes, I would like to hazard a guess on the "milk and water" comment by Ang. We know that Jack is represented by water sometimes, since he brings water to the camp, sings "Water Walking Jesus" and washes Ennis's and his clothes in the flowing stream, among other things. And Lureen is obviously the milk, specifically mother's milk, since she shows her breasts and receives a case of formula from her parents. So, milk and water do combine, but the water dilutes the milk, so it loses its nutrition. Thus, Lureen and Jack are a lackluster combination resulting in a relationship that could be carried out over the phone, with a husband that never wants to dance with his wife.
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: serious crayons on September 06, 2006, 10:08:09 am
Good theory, F-R! Works for me. That Ang -- even in his ordinary real-life comments he has to be so mysterious!

Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: nakymaton on September 06, 2006, 10:45:55 am
I might listen to a commentary from Ang Lee if he spoke entirely in riddles. ;D As long as we could argue for years about what he really meant!

And if there's a cast commentary, I hope they would be able to get Heath and Jake and Michelle and Ann all together in a room to record the commentary together. I liked the chemistry between the real people, and I prefer cast commentaries that are silly reminiscences than those that are very, very serious about the craft of acting. I get the impression that the cast is young enough to be silly and serious in turn.

(And yes, I would actually hope that it would break the sad magic of the movie. Something has to, dammit!)
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Penthesilea on September 06, 2006, 10:58:23 am
Yes, I would like to hazard a guess on the "milk and water" comment by Ang. We know that Jack is represented by water sometimes, since he brings water to the camp, sings "Water Walking Jesus" and washes Ennis's and his clothes in the flowing stream, among other things. And Lureen is obviously the milk, specifically mother's milk, since she shows her breasts and receives a case of formula from her parents. So, milk and water do combine, but the water dilutes the milk, so it loses its nutrition. Thus, Lureen and Jack are a lackluster combination resulting in a relationship that could be carried out over the phone, with a husband that never wants to dance with his wife.

I thought the comment was "you [Jack&Lureen] go together like milk and honey". Honey, not water. I was pretty sure about that. But now I start to doubt, since you all speak of milk and water  ???

Arrrg, I still don't have my DVD back. I'll go now and search youtube. Will be back later and report.

Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: mvansand76 on September 06, 2006, 11:13:23 am
Re: milk and water. I thought that Ang was trying to tell Anne and Jake how good they looked together (which they do really!), but he did not get the saying right...  ???
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Penthesilea on September 06, 2006, 11:25:45 am
Ok, I take back everything I said. It is indeed "milk and water". I was plain wrong.

OMG. Milk and water make so much more sense than milk and honey. I always thought hunh? about this comment. Because milk and honey go together not well at the beginning, but after a while, when you stirr it, they go together very well and mingle completely. And Jack and Lureen sure did not go together well and mingled in the course of their relationship.

Lee:
Now I read you post a second time and it makes sense. The Jack=water symbolism is well discussed and I think we have a consesnus about that.
The connection between Lureen and milk you elaborated is not to be dimissed.

What happens when milk and water go together? The milk kinda fades. The colour gets more and more pale, the more water you insert. Just like Lureens hair gets more and more pale.

Gotta go now. Will be back on this later.
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: nakymaton on September 06, 2006, 12:28:18 pm
 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Lee, the symbolism of Ang Lee's comment cracks me up. I mean -- here's this comment that Jake used as an example of how mysterious the direction could be, and it's been transformed into something that makes sense in this highly symbolic interpretation of BBM.

I dunno. I still think that the symbolism is far more fluid than implied by our discussions -- that there's consistency to the imagery, and that that makes it very effective on an emotional and intuitive level, but that the movie is not a patchwork quilt of symbols stitched together to make a Meaning.
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: serious crayons on September 06, 2006, 12:53:49 pm
I dunno. I still think that the symbolism is far more fluid than implied by our discussions -- that there's consistency to the imagery, and that that makes it very effective on an emotional and intuitive level, but that the movie is not a patchwork quilt of symbols stitched together to make a Meaning.

I agree with what I think you're saying. Most of those things we talk about do mean something -- I think a cigar is very rarely just a cigar. But often they're multiple or ambiguous or abstract meanings. I don't think each symbol necessarily means one specific thing that can be summarized in two or three words that, when combined with the other symbols, tells the whole story.

Or wait, maybe they do ...

OK, here's the summer on Brokeback, entirely in symbols (I left out a few repetitive ones for streamlining purposes):

Truck ... paper bag ... train ... binoculars ... watch ... skittish horse ... sheep ... water ... sawing/chopping ... more water ... kettle and coffee pot ... bear ... beans ... elk ... tent ... flattened harmonica ... more tent ... dead sheep ... naked laundry ... dead coyote ... more tent ...  more binoculars ... Uncle Harold ... more tent ... mixed-up sheep ... snow.

Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: nakymaton on September 06, 2006, 01:02:55 pm
OK, here's the summer on Brokeback, entirely in symbols (I left out a few repetitive ones for streamlining purposes):

Truck ... paper bag ... train ... binoculars ... watch ... skittish horse ... sheep ... water ... sawing/chopping ... more water ... kettle and coffee pot ... bear ... beans ... elk ... tent ... flattened harmonica ... more tent ... dead sheep ... naked laundry ... dead coyote ... more tent ...  more binoculars ... Uncle Harold ... more tent ... mixed-up sheep ... snow.

I forget... what symbolized mind-numbingly hot kissing again? ;)

I guess my feeling about the symbolism is... well, the movie does a great job of going straight to my heart, bypassing my brain. And the visual images play a role in that... but not the kind of very intellectual role that "symbolism" implies to me.

Or maybe I'm still grumpy because I hated high school English lit classes. ;)
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: serious crayons on September 06, 2006, 01:23:33 pm
I forget... what symbolized mind-numbingly hot kissing again? ;)

That would be the drool. Oh wait -- that's MY drool.  ;D

Quote
I guess my feeling about the symbolism is... well, the movie does a great job of going straight to my heart, bypassing my brain. And the visual images play a role in that... but not the kind of very intellectual role that "symbolism" implies to me.

Or maybe I'm still grumpy because I hated high school English lit classes. ;)

Well, maybe I still love it because I loved high-school English, in fact used to be a college English lit major, and BBM has more symbolism than The Great Gatsby.  ;)

The movie goes straight to my heart, too. It did the first time I saw it, even though back then the closest I came to understanding any symbols was suspecting that the dead sheep might stand for something and that Lureen probably wasn't just talking about dancing.

It wasn't until I got to imdb that I realized that snow and tents and fans and water and elk meant anything more than the obvious. (OK, so I was a college lit major who switched halfway through to journalism.  ::))

Personally, I really enjoy the intellectual challenge and reward of analyzing the symbols. I don't think you need to do it to appreciate the movie. I don't even think you need to agree they're there in order to appreciate the movie (hell, I can think of people -- not you, Mel -- who routinely scoff at symbol interpretations and have been involved in these boards longer than I have). I don't think you have to know that "Jack = wind" and then notice the huge fan on Ennis' bed at the end in order to figure out how Ennis is feeling in that scene.

But for me it's fun, partly in a way that a crossword puzzle is fun, partly because it deepens my appreciation of the movie's brilliance, partly because it's interesting to see how great writers and directors handle symbols, partly because I find it fascinating and subtle and astounding. Noticing a new one that works is like finding a buried treasure. I would put noticing all the mirrors and echoes and bookends in the same category.

Still, however fun, it's almost like a sideline thing to my appreciation of the movie's emotional impact.

Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Front-Ranger on September 06, 2006, 01:51:59 pm
Wouldn't it have been fun to be the props manager on this one, or the set designer?? :D

So, here's a funny story on the topic of symbolism (now I feel like Al Gore doing the macarena ::))

I was lying awake in bed the other night trying to figure out why everyone else in the movie cried from their right eye only while Lureen cried from her left eye. Then I finally asked myself how an actor could cry out of one eye only at the direction of a director. I'm going to have to practice that one!!
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Mikaela on September 06, 2006, 01:53:52 pm
Katherine, you saved me a whole lot of time, writing the response I was thinking I wanted to write. Ditto to absolutely everything in your last post, except the education bit.

All of the following describes my reaction perfectly:

Quote
The movie goes straight to my heart, too.

Quote
Personally, I really enjoy the intellectual challenge and reward of analyzing the symbols. I don't think you need to do it to appreciate the movie. [  ]But for me it's fun, [  ]partly because it deepens my appreciation of the movie's brilliance, partly because it's interesting to see how great writers and directors handle symbols, partly because I find it fascinating and subtle and astounding.

Quote
Still, however fun, it's almost like a sideline thing to my appreciation of the movie's emotional impact.

....apart from all that, I can still remember (and re-live) my immediate reaction to seeing the reunion kiss for the first time. That reaction wasn't at all what I'd describe as intellectual.  :P

So all in all, BBM works its magic strongly on the heart, on the brain, and .......on other parts. All at once.  (I seriously need that blushing icon. Will go hunt for one. ETA: Here it is:    (http://catandmoon.com/blush.gif)       )
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Penthesilea on September 06, 2006, 01:59:42 pm
I dunno. I still think that the symbolism is far more fluid than implied by our discussions -- that there's consistency to the imagery, and that that makes it very effective on an emotional and intuitive level, but that the movie is not a patchwork quilt of symbols stitched together to make a Meaning.

At the risk of becoming boring: I second everything Katherine has said.

This movie is full of symbolism, mirror scenes, bookends etc. But noticing, trying to understand and particulary discussing them is a tightrope walk. And the chance that sometimes we become too far-fetched is absolutely given.
But the good thing is, for all of us it is something different what s/he considers as plausible, non-important or too far-fetched.

I can see nothing wrong in contemplating what Ang Lee could have meant with his milk and water picture. Maybe it was just an incidental remark of him, maybe he doesn't remember himself. But the chances are as good that he indeed did have something particular in his mind saying it. We'll never know for sure (like thousand other things regarding BBM) and that's part of the magic and of the fun.
Doesn't hurt anybody to ramble about it, does it?



Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Mikaela on September 06, 2006, 02:07:56 pm
No, far from it.  :) I love rambling about symbolism as may have become apparent. (http://catandmoon.com/blush.gif)  And Ang Lee's comment is perfect for pondering in this respect. I really liked Front-Ranger's/ Lee's interpretation.

Perhaps if we do get that wished-for cast commentary with Heath, Jake, Anne and Michelle at long last, Anne will say what *she* thought Ang Lee was telling them with the milk and water comment..... since according to Jake, she found immediate meaning in it while he had no clue.

(Oh, I do want that cast commentary! I do, I do, I do! A mix of serious and fun - discussion of the film and characters, and some (a little more light-hearted?) reminiscing about the filming. It would be perfect!)
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: jpwagoneer1964 on September 06, 2006, 02:16:34 pm
Speaking of water I believe there is a stage direction wher Jack looks at Ennis as if a 1,000 rovers flowed thru him. I thinks it's when the fires meet. I have seen Jake talk of it in a interview.
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Mikaela on September 06, 2006, 02:24:39 pm
Yes, Jake mentioned the screenplay direction of 1,000 rivers flowing through Jack at the sight of Ennis during the Toronto Film Festival's BBM press conference. That press conference (featuring all the four main actors) in itself is one reason why I think that the cast commentary would be a delight and work wonderfully.  :)
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Front-Ranger on September 06, 2006, 02:25:25 pm
Gee, I had to go search for that immediately, but no luck. I didn't find it in the 2003 script, jp. Was it another document that you were referring to? Gotta chase this one down!!
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: jpwagoneer1964 on September 06, 2006, 02:31:04 pm
Gee, I had to go search for that immediately, but no luck. I didn't find it in the 2003 script, jp. Was it another document that you were referring to? Gotta chase this one down!!
It might be on the DVD, or on one of the interview with Jake from Youtube.
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Penthesilea on September 06, 2006, 02:35:40 pm
Toronto Film Festival's BBM press conference. That press conference (featuring all the four main actors)

Do you know whether it is somewhere online? Maybe youtube?
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Mikaela on September 06, 2006, 02:46:21 pm
Sure enough,  here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQTy-iTqijE&search=brokeback) it is.

There opening is boring because the moderator is not good  ::)  (to put it mildly) and then they fiddle a bit with talking directly on the phone with Ang Lee from Venice where he'd just received the Golden Lion award. But once they get into the thing, it's great. (It may unfortunately stop showing the visual of the four of them half-way trough, which is a pity, but the sound is still there and it's great to just listen to it, too.)

Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Penthesilea on September 06, 2006, 03:10:28 pm
Thank you Mikaela  :-*
*jumps right over to youtube*
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: dly64 on September 06, 2006, 03:27:28 pm
It's funny .... I had found it at the same time you did. As you said ... the moderator is HORRIBLE! He might want to learn how to properly pronounce Jake's last name! Beyond that ... it is fun to listen to.
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: mvansand76 on September 06, 2006, 05:32:26 pm
Wow, I have never seen this, this is sooooo great!!!! Thanks for posting...
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Front-Ranger on September 07, 2006, 11:03:34 am
In reference to your earlier comment about how Ang Lee speaks in riddles, that led to us trying to solve the "milk/water=Jack/Lureen" riddle, which caused us to revive our perennial worry about whether we are just making this all up, I found this comment by Lee in the production notes:

Quote
Ang Lee: That bottled-up feeling - Larry had written me about the nonverbal culture in the West. I'd done [a movie about] a verbal culture with Sense and Sensibility. In some ways, this was harder, because, if they are not verbalizing their feelings and being level in their communication, then how do you express their feelings in cinema? You have the Western elements; the landscape, the sky, the animals - whom they're nurturing, actually.


Not proof positive that the symbolism was intentional, but leaning that way...

Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: nic on September 07, 2006, 07:21:54 pm
This might be more to the screenplay writers - I'd ask why they didn't show Jack writing the first postcard.  I'd like to have seen their interpretation on why he did it: as an impulse, was it prompted somehow by having his son, was it because he wanted another man again or just Ennis?
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Noviani on November 16, 2006, 02:27:21 am
I would like to know about the collaboration between Ang and the writers, the actors and the editor. I know some things … like it was Heath’s idea to switch the shirts around. I also heard that Ang had considered cutting out the reunion kiss altogether, but Diana and Larry lobbied hard to keep that in. I wonder what else was changed or adjusted!

OMG it was Heath who had THAT IDEA?!!!

 so deep  :'(

that's how ennis wants to forever have Jack in his embrace... now i'm sad again after having fun in "broekiesm in real life.."
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: twistedude on November 27, 2006, 10:06:28 pm
 would like to know why Ang said TWICE of Lureen, "She's lying."  When it was clear to me that she was NOT lying, but telling the truth as she knew it (whaever the actual truth was).

Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Front-Ranger on April 27, 2007, 12:11:40 am
I read a book about the movie Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon that had a long introduction by Ang Lee. I kept thinking, why can't Brokeback Mountain have a book like this??
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: mvansand76 on April 27, 2007, 06:18:02 am
I read a book about the movie Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon that had a long introduction by Ang Lee. I kept thinking, why can't Brokeback Mountain have a book like this??


Yeah, I really wonder about that too, do you think we will have to wait ten years for something like that to come out?
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Shasta542 on August 10, 2007, 09:19:37 pm
If you haven't read this yet---interesting comments from many people involved in BBM:

http://www.obliquity65.com/?p=545 (http://www.obliquity65.com/?p=545)
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Delmardeb on August 12, 2007, 12:49:27 am
Shasta,

It was fun chatting with you and the other Brokies today. I was wondering how to meet folks, and now I know. Thanks again for the conversation.

Debbie from NJ

Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: ifyoucantfixit on August 12, 2007, 10:49:14 am




      So good to see you again today Deb.. glad to hear the quitting smoking is going good..
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Artiste on August 01, 2008, 08:34:55 pm
Any more news ?
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Artiste on October 18, 2008, 11:07:43 pm
I would like Ang to comment what he said to the Chinese when he went there?
Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Front-Ranger on October 19, 2008, 01:45:26 am
Interesting that you bring that up, Artiste. I am just now reading the book  Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, A Portrait of the Ang Lee Film. In the book, Ang writes a lot about going to China and making a film there and his thoughts about China. He is actually Taiwanese, but his family is from China. He studied film and lived in the US for a long time. He is a true Renaissance man and global citizen.

After CTHD, he has returned to China and made another film there, Lust, Caution. Whatever controversy Brokeback Mountain caused (I heard that it was banned), the newer film caused even more.

Title: Re: What would you like Ang to comment on?
Post by: Artiste on October 19, 2008, 10:46:06 am
Front-Ranger, and that book does not say what Ang said about the Brokeback Mountain movie, he did, to the Chinese when he was talking about it then and there in China ?