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Our BetterMost Community => The Polling Place => Topic started by: Kerry on April 07, 2010, 10:14:55 pm

Title: US 2010 Census: Do you consider the word "Negro" to be a racial slur?
Post by: Kerry on April 07, 2010, 10:14:55 pm: (http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1428/robertgrovesuscensus201.jpg) (http://img163.imageshack.us/i/robertgrovesuscensus201.jpg/)
Robert Groves

US 2010 Census:
Do you consider the word Negro to be a racial slur?

In TIME magazine this week (South Pacific April 5 edition), the US Census director answered 10 questions from TIME readers.

This question was submitted by Matthew Thacker of Bowling Green, Ohio:

"Why is the word Negro - considered by many to be a racial slur - used in the race section?"

Robert Groves responded:

"Before the 2000 Census,there were a set of studies that queried how people would self-classify racially. One of the discoveries was that there was an aging cohort of African Americans who [used] Negro. For this reason, in the 2000 form, the word was used. The check box had the label Black, African American or Negro. There were about 50,000 people who checked the box and also wrote in Negro. We inferred that they felt pretty strongly about [using that word] to describe themselves. We analyzed that group, and to our surprise, half of them were under 45. That was a finding."

What's your view?
Title: Re: US 2010 Census: Do you consider the word "Negro" to be a racial slur?
Post by: Sheriff Roland on April 07, 2010, 10:39:55 pm: Even though I do not see the 'slur' part of the 'negro' word, the question is not whether I prefer some other options, as the answer list offers ...

So, simply said, I don't think it's a slur and no other options ought to have been offered. Yes or No - or no opinion.

There are limits to political correctness.

IMO
Title: Re: US 2010 Census: Do you consider the word "Negro" to be a racial slur?
Post by: serious crayons on April 08, 2010, 12:06:44 am: I'm not the ideal judge, but I don't see it as a slur. I do see the term as dated, though. To say it without irony seems not so much racist as clueless, as if someone hasn't kept up with the race conversation since the early '60s.

An acquaintance recently used the term "mulatto" without irony, which I thought also sounded dated and clueless. I'd go with "biracial."

The best non-race analogy I can think of is, when I was married, if someone would refer to me as Mrs. (husband's first name) (husband's last name). When in fact I kept my maiden name, didn't go by Mrs., and would never use my husband's whole name as a substitute for my own. To say it that way is not exactly sexist but, Dude, where have you been?
Title: Re: US 2010 Census: Do you consider the word "Negro" to be a racial slur?
Post by: Monika on April 08, 2010, 01:34:28 am: It´s not a word that I would use. Sounds old-fashioned and racist to me.
Title: Re: US 2010 Census: Do you consider the word "Negro" to be a racial slur?
Post by: Kelda on April 08, 2010, 03:58:23 am: This sort of profiling is good thought I think. It allows for positive discrimation and for organisations/ local authorities to profile what their communities look like and therefore what type of service etc they need to offer.

I always tend to answer tha bit, I have nothing to hide.

That said, i don'ty like the word negro personally, as buffy said, it seems very old fashioned.

I chose Black because the african american thing always confuses me. What if you're not american? or are not from african heritage?
Title: Re: US 2010 Census: Do you consider the word "Negro" to be a racial slur?
Post by: CellarDweller on April 08, 2010, 06:18:48 am: I remember seeing an episode of "All in the Family" years ago. The Jefferson's son (Lionel) was arguing with an older uncle, and the uncle used the word Negro. Lionel corrected him by saying "Black, uncle". The reply was.

"Forgive me....it took me a long time to go from 'nigger' to 'negro'. Give me some time to go from 'negro' to 'black'."

I always took the word negro to be a slur to some degree. Not quite as bad as nigger, but a slur none the less.
Title: Re: US 2010 Census: Do you consider the word "Negro" to be a racial slur?
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on April 08, 2010, 08:42:45 am: Negro is no more a slur than is Caucasian.
Title: Re: US 2010 Census: Do you consider the word "Negro" to be a racial slur?
Post by: serious crayons on April 08, 2010, 09:02:00 am: Quote from: Jeff Wrangler on April 08, 2010, 08:42:45 am
Negro is no more a slur than is Caucasian.

Caucasian isn't exactly free of racist subtext, itself.

From Wikipedia:

Caucasian race

The term Caucasian race(or Caucasoid, sometimes also Europid, or Europoid[1]) denotes the race or phenotypes of some or all of the indigenous human populations of Europe, North Africa, the Horn of Africa, West Asia, Central Asia, and South Asia.[2][3] The classification has been used in scientific racism, a concept that asserts the superiority of one race over another.[citation needed]

In common use in American English, the term "Caucasian" (rarely supplemented with the word "race") is sometimes restricted to Europeans and other lighter-skinned populations within these areas, and may be considered equivalent to the varying definitions of white people. The term continues to be widely used in many scientific and general contexts, usually with its more restricted sense of "white", specifically White American in a US context.

Origin of the concept
The Georgian skull Blumenbach discovered in 1795 to hypothesize origination of Europeans from the Caucasus.

The concept of a Caucasian race or Varietas Caucasia was developed around 1800 by Johann Friedrich Blumenbach, a German scientist and early anthropologist. Blumenbach named it after the peoples of the Caucasus (from the Caucasus region), whom he considered to be the archetype for the grouping. He based his classification of the Caucasian race primarily on craniology. Blumenbach wrote:

"Caucasian variety—I have taken the name of this variety from Mount Caucasus, both because its neighborhood, and especially its southern slope, produces the most beautiful race of men, I mean the Georgian; and because all physiological reasons converge to this, that in that region, if anywhere, it seems we ought with the greatest probability to place the autochthones (birth place) of mankind."
Title: Re: US 2010 Census: Do you consider the word "Negro" to be a racial slur?
Post by: Marina on April 08, 2010, 10:13:57 am: I would have to say a qualified "No". For me, the word is antiquated and has too much of an association with that other, terrible word; so I was surprised to read that a number of people self-identify as it, and they are under 45 years of age. Who am I to argue? I tend to defer to the person and how they would want to be perceived, and would be happy in a world where labels and classifications were not necessary. In all my years on the planet, I have found that people are not so different. Some people may draw pride and strength from that word and its history. That said, sometimes people can go too far with the PC-ness; even the color black can be misconstrued as offensive when it's not being used that way, in any way. The word has many definitions and associations, and race is just one; a benign color is another. It's all about the intent, how the word is used. That other word even sounds terrible to the ear, aggressive and harsh. I am interested in history and the world's cultures; and they are exquisitely beautiful and complex, no matter where they originate. For something such as taking a census, it's benign. :) It even took me a long time to feel comfortable with the word "Queer" from which some of my friends also draw strength and pride.

"Caucasian" is a very broad category, and I believe some Georgian people, and that entire Caucasus area, can trace a history to the Middle East and ancient Persia? Beautiful.
Title: Re: US 2010 Census: Do you consider the word "Negro" to be a racial slur?
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on April 08, 2010, 11:09:52 am: Quote from: serious crayons on April 08, 2010, 09:02:00 am
Caucasian isn't exactly free of racist subtext, itself.

Are any of these terms free of racism?

Have I missed something (which is probable)? Has anyone seen an explanation as to why the U.S. Census Bureau is still categorizing people by race in the first place?

Is this just something carried forward since 1790, when these categories were necessary for calculating representation (because under the Constitution as adopted, a "Negro" only counted as a fraction of a person)?
Title: Re: US 2010 Census: Do you consider the word "Negro" to be a racial slur?
Post by: Marina on April 08, 2010, 11:27:44 am: At a point in history, women were not considered an entire person either. :(

I think some of the racist/sexist feeling is just a holdover from those times; we don't believe that today, the Constitution has been amended, but we still use the outdated terminology with a painful history that still haunts it. I think knowing how many people there are can be of benefit, such as for proper Constitutional representation in government and congressional districts, and not just a negative. It's written into the Constitution under the 15th Amendment, and also permanent law under the Voting and Civil Rights Acts. It also protects against discrimination in voting, not only for race, but for those whose English is limited. Maybe we need different terminology.
Title: Re: US 2010 Census: Do you consider the word "Negro" to be a racial slur?
Post by: dejavu on April 08, 2010, 12:10:30 pm: Quote from: serious crayons on April 08, 2010, 12:06:44 am
I'm not the ideal judge, but I don't see it as a slur. I do see the term as dated, though. To say it without irony seems not so much racist as clueless, as if someone hasn't kept up with the race conversation since the early '60s.

My feelings are along these lines. I see the term as dated. But since I read that it was kept in the Census because some black or African-American people feel more comfortable with "Negro" than with "black" or "African-American," I'm willing to give those people that choice. After all, I still see ads for (and get fund-raising appeals from) the United Negro College Fund.

But for a white person to use the term "Negro" does sound like they haven't kept up with the majority preference among African-Americans, and therefore makes me suspicious that they might intend it as a slur.

As for the question of labeling, I see labeling as a legitimate thing for the Census to do, to gather current population statistics. Some factors that are studied in medicine and sociology do have some correlation to the racial/national origin makeup of a population. The resulting statistics may be useful in knowing where to spend money, what diseases to be on the lookout for, etc.
Title: Re: US 2010 Census: Do you consider the word "Negro" to be a racial slur?
Post by: zephaniah on April 08, 2010, 12:26:58 pm: I agree with debbie - it depends on who is doing the labeling: I don't mind being called a fag or a queer or a homo by another fag,queer, homo, especially in a humorous or bonding reference. But don't be heterosexual trying to demean me with it: you will be deprived of the benefit of my conversation, you stupid honky ofey MF... :o
Title: Re: US 2010 Census: Do you consider the word "Negro" to be a racial slur?
Post by: Marina on April 08, 2010, 01:15:57 pm: Let me clarify - I would never presume to use those terms myself either - it took me a long time to become comfortable with my friends' using them to refer to themselves, as a badge of honor and pride. As I said, I would defer to what they would like to call themselves, and where I have no direct concept of their personal experiences, I wouldn't use them myself, and refer to them only with the greatest respect. I also believe that there is a lot of positive information to be gained by Census information, that helps humanity.

I've been called every name in the book in some of my travels - haole, gringa, hakajin (teasingly by in-laws), bloody American. (No offense to anyone!) Admittedly, these aren't always as hurtful as some others. I consider it a learning experience. :)

Spike Lee's Do The Right Thing has the most wonderful scenes where racial and ethnic slurs of all kinds are used and it only hightlights their absurdity. No wonder it has been preserved in the National Film Registry of the Library of Congress as a culturally significant film. :)
Title: Re: US 2010 Census: Do you consider the word "Negro" to be a racial slur?
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on April 08, 2010, 03:15:05 pm: Quote from: marina on April 08, 2010, 11:27:44 am
At a point in history, women were not considered an entire person either. :(

Sure enough, but for the purposes of the U.S. Census, white women have always been enumerated as a whole person. The same cannot be said for "persons of color."
Title: Re: US 2010 Census: Do you consider the word "Negro" to be a racial slur?
Post by: Jeff Wrangler on April 08, 2010, 03:16:40 pm: Quote from: zephaniah on April 08, 2010, 12:26:58 pm
ofey

The whut? ???
Title: Re: US 2010 Census: Do you consider the word "Negro" to be a racial slur?
Post by: Shakesthecoffecan on April 08, 2010, 04:27:04 pm: I totally missed that when I filled my form out. Perhaps could it be the identity of Spanish speaking people of African decent?

I checked "Other" and then wrote in "Not Completely White".
Title: Re: US 2010 Census: Do you consider the word "Negro" to be a racial slur?
Post by: milomorris on April 08, 2010, 04:44:51 pm: - "Negro" is not a slur on face value. If these whiners are upset about the census using the term, maybe they should consult the folks at the United Negro College Fund.

- I call myself black, unless I'm trying to distinguish myself ethnically from other people of African descent. That's really the only time I use African-American.

- My grandmother still calls herself "colored." So does the NAACP.

- Using a term to define a person's race or ethnicity is not "labeling," its simply a means of describing that person. I am reminded of an armed robbery case in Wilmington DE a few years back. Because the newspaper down there went ape-shit PC, their editorial standards prohibited them from identifying the race of crime suspects. So the description of the suspect in the newspaper read something along the lines of "5'8", stocky build, wearing jeans, a red jacket, and a baseball cap." I'm sorry, but that doesn't tell me shit about who I should be looking for.

More than that, I don't want to stop using my racial identifiers, and neither do the vast majority of blacks that I know.

- My favorite racial identifier is "uppity niggah" O0
Title: Re: US 2010 Census: Do you consider the word "Negro" to be a racial slur?
Post by: Monika on April 08, 2010, 04:56:44 pm: Well, I´m a Brokie. Any boxes to check for that?
Title: Re: US 2010 Census: Do you consider the word "Negro" to be a racial slur?
Post by: Luvlylittlewing on April 08, 2010, 05:08:21 pm: I don't think Negro is a slur. I have relatives who still refer to themselves as Negro on occassion. I use black to describe myself.
Title: Re: US 2010 Census: Do you consider the word "Negro" to be a racial slur?
Post by: serious crayons on April 08, 2010, 07:35:26 pm: Quote from: milomorris on April 08, 2010, 04:44:51 pm
- Using a term to define a person's race or ethnicity is not "labeling," its simply a means of describing that person.

I agree. And there should be no more stigma attached to it than there is defining someone's gender, nationality, hair color, etc. We tend to be extra sensitive about all things racial, but the stigma should be attached to racISM, not to race.

Quote
I am reminded of an armed robbery case in Wilmington DE a few years back. Because the newspaper down there went ape-shit PC, their editorial standards prohibited them from identifying the race of crime suspects. So the description of the suspect in the newspaper read something along the lines of "5'8", stocky build, wearing jeans, a red jacket, and a baseball cap." I'm sorry, but that doesn't tell me shit about who I should be looking for.

Yes, although adding "black" or "white" to that description wouldn't narrow it down enough to make it much more practical. A newspaper I once worked at stopped using race in its descriptions, too. The decision was controversial, because it was partly intended to keep readers from thinking criminals were disproportionately black, which was perceived as an attempt to control the news. But one of the editors explained that those descriptions in the stories aren't really designed to help you identify the suspect if you see him/her in the grocery line, anyway -- they're more for the benefit of people who might have been in the vicinity when the crime took place.

Still, in most contexts referring to somebody's race should really be no more offensive than referring to their nationality, gender, height, etc. I was once talking at a party about someone who had appeared on a TV talk show among a group of people. "Which one was she?" my friend asked. "The black one," I said. My friend acted all shocked --like I wasn't supposed to notice that she was the only black woman in an otherwise white group. Like I should have said, "Oh, she was the second-tallest one, with shoulder-length hair," etc., which would have been pretty useless.
Title: Re: US 2010 Census: Do you consider the word "Negro" to be a racial slur?
Post by: tforster on April 09, 2010, 12:01:24 am: I'm a white guy, born and raised and living in Alabama... so I know something about this and have always found it interesting. "Negro" used by a white person to describe a black person would be considered old fashioned, but acceptable, only if coming from someone who is older (70+). It would be considered insulting and backward if coming from a younger white person but not nearly on the same level as the "N" word. Negro or any variation including the "N" word is usually acceptable if spoken by a black person. Interestingly, some older white people in the South will refer to a black person as a "nigra" instead of "negro", but it is not meant to be overtly derogatory - though it was/is used by less educated older persons... I think it's more of a Southern accent thing.

I've always just used ebony and ivory... :)
Title: Re: US 2010 Census: Do you consider the word "Negro" to be a racial slur?
Post by: David In Indy on April 14, 2010, 02:30:24 am: "Negro" describes a race, as does "Caucasian".

"Colored" is still tossed around where I live, and a term I find especially offensive. It harkens back to the Jim Crow segregation days. :P