Jack: Your folks run you off?
Ennis: No, they run themselves off. There was one curve in the road in 43 miles, and they miss it. So the bank took the ranch and my brother and sister, they raised me, mostly.
Well, guys, I cannot understand just one thing. What on earth could this mean -- "They run themselves off". You know, speaking about Ennis, it sounds like "his parents made him leave the home". But speaking about parents?? I just hope it means they just HAD to leave for some reason. Or, maybe, Ennis talking about their death here? I'm sorry, guys, I've just been looking for russian translation of this idiom and it seems, ahem, a bit strange, you know. I hope I just misunderstandig this. And I am also not sure about the meaning of "curve" - what exactly is it?. And they missed it - because of bank, isn't it? Isn't it kind of being bankrupt?
Ennis: Well, I don't eat soup. ** You wanna watch it there. That horse has a low startle point.
low startle point - there are two meanings in the dictionary, first is that horse is fearful and second - that she's wild or agressive a bit. Which meaning is the best?
Jack: Let's git, unless you wanna sit around tying knots all day
let's git - in fact, I saw "git" is a kind of bad guy or something, so for sure it's not what I need here. maybe it is dialect form of "get"? Can I translate it as "Be hurry" or "let's do it faster"?
Jack: Shit, that stay with the sheep, no fire bullshit, Aguirre got no right making us do something against the rules.
it means, that all this rules are impossible to follow, doesn't it?
Basque: Too early in the summer to be sick of beans.
I suppose that this phrase (or at least its first part - too early in the summer) is an idiom. Right? Because Basque is kind of sneering there, you know. In Russian version he says, "O-oh, how soft (or, better, delicate) we are." (It's Russian "sneering" thing -- sayings like "Oh how [adjective] we are" and it means "You" instaed We, "We" in such situations adds more sarcasm)
[Ennis shots an elk] Ennis: Getting tired of your dumb-ass missing.
Jack: What? Let's get a move on. Don't want the Game and Fish to catch us with no elk.
I saw that Game and Fish is kind of organisation of Wyoming that controls underlaw hunting. Is that right? so can i translate it like this: organisation controls underlaw hunting? of course, I got a much better russian wording than the one I have quoted, I just need you to understad me. And the second one right here: with no elk. I s'pose that's the dialect form and in fact it means "with this dead elk", right?
Ennis: I mean, what's the point of riding some piece of stock for eight seconds?
piece of stock. Can I change it into just "a bull"?
Ennis: They did the best they could after my folks was gone
according to the first item, "to be gone" means to be dead in this context, right? Ennis's parents haven't just left their place to somewhere else, have they?
Ennis: Speak for yourself. You may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity.
"hadn't had the opportunity". It's not quite clear for me. How would you say it (in) the other way? In Russian version he says "Maybe you're a sinner, but I, being compared to you, am as innocent as a little child".
Ennis: This is a one-shot thing we got going on here.
one-shot thing — may I translate this phrase as a thing that shouldn't happen again?
Jack: (Saying goodbye to Ennis before their 4-iear separation) I might be back. If the Army don't get me.
So that's a good question for sitizens of US. How was it going with army and all at sixties? It was honor to join the army, wasn't it? I mean, here in Russia it is quite okay to avoid employment. And, what is important, we can avoid it only having kind of decease. And, you know, it is quite dangerous to join our army these days. There's big likelyhood of being killed there (not being sent to war but because of dedovshchina here (physical and psychological abuse of new recruits in the army -- term from the dictionary).
Alma: There's a cheap place in Riverton, over the Laundromat. I bet I could fix it up real nice.
Fix up, as I see, means to repair or something; but it's quite strange for a woman to repair broken stuff or even repair the whole house, I mean something like having new furniture, or other maintenance works at one's place. I s'pose Alma talks about making house more comfortable and cosy, you know.
Barman: You ever try calf roping?
Jack: Do I look like I can afford a f*cking roping horse?
I've read something about rodeo, and I found out what exactly is calf roping. But what is Jack talking about? Can't afford? He means, such horses are expensive? If yes, it means that a rider should have his own horse, yeah?
Ennis: Alma, I can't afford not to be there when the heifers calve. Right, it'd be my job if I lose any of them.
"It would be my job if I lose any of them". It's not quite clear for me; in russian version he just says, "I would lose my job if I'm not there now". May I leave it as it is in russian dubbing?
Alma: Hey, Ennis, you know somebody, name of Jack?
Ennis: Maybe around. Why?
"Maybe around". Ennis says this Jack could be someone around their place they live, right?
Postcard: Friend, this letter is long over due. Coming through on the 24th...
Long over due. It means this postcard should have been (or being -- I'm not sure how to use Perfect Passive tenses) written really long ago and in fact it's not very good that it has come in very long four years after their last meeting, right?
Jack: Right next summer, I drove back up to Brokeback... Went down to Texas for rodeoing. That's how I met Lureen. Made $2,000 that year, bull riding. Nearly starved.
I don't understand this. If Jack had got 2000 dollars that year, why was he starving?
Ennis: And the Army didn't get you?
Jack: No, too busted up. And rodeoing ain't what it was in my daddy's day. Got out while l could still walk.
There are two questions appears. First, as I asked, it seems that employment was obligatory, right? So Jack, having no problems with health, coudn't avoid army. And, second, what exactly does he mean saying that rodeo is not what it was earlier?
Lureen: I thought you were gonna call.
Jack: I complain too much. That teacher don't like me.
Jack complains??? I hope there are different meanings of this word, because the dictionary's one is... well, strange a bit for Jack. Look, for example, children complain often when the other child takes their toys; or adults complain of having bad life not trying to change it. What exactly is happening between Jack and Bobby's teacher?
Jack: (To L.D., Lureen's father) ...and you are my guest. Now you sit down before I knock your ignorant ass into next week.
May I translate it just like "...before I throw you out of my house"?
Alma: I'm going to yell for Monroe.
Ennis: You do it and I'll make you eat the f*cking floor.
Alma: Get out!
Ennis: And you, too!
It's not clear for me. Maybe my Subtitles are uncorrect, and Ennis says "I'll make HIM eat the f*cking floor" (and, then, "And you, too!", what is more logical)?
Jack: So what we got now is Brokeback Mountain! Everything's built on that! That's all we got, boy. F*cking all. So I hope you know that, if you don't never know the rest!
The last sentence is not understandable for me. It seems for me like that: Jack hopes Ennis realises that they have nothing but BrokebackMountain, but all his Mexico deals are not important, anyway.
Lureen: Well, he said it was his favorite place. I thought he meant to get drunk. He drank a lot.
What exactly does Lureen mean? That she thought Brokeback Mountain was the favourite place of Jack to get drunk?
Jack’s father: ...He had some half-baked notion the two of you was gonna move up here, build a cabin, help run the place.
What exactly is half-baked notion? Some kind of idea, that you want to turn into life, but without proper planning, right?
Jack’s mother: I kept his room * like it was when he was a boy. * I think he appreciated that. * You are welcome to go up to his room, if you want.
Well, guys. I have no any translation difficulties here. But I don't understand, what exactly Jack's mom means. "Like it was, when he was a boy"?? But wait a minute, Jack has visited them a couple months ago, and anyway, he's got their shirts there in his room -- and he wasn't BOY already, when he came down from Brokeback -- I mean, maybe she means that she never changed anything in his room ever?
Alma Jr: Daddy, you need more furniture.
Ennis: Yeah, well, if you got nothing, you don't need nothing.
In Russian version Ennis says: "If you got nothing, you have nothing to lose". May I leave it like it is in dubbing? It sounds even better, for my opinion.
But first, want a cup of coffee, don't ya? Piece a cherry cake? ;)
Jack: Your folks run you off?It was common for poor rural people to make their children leave home as soon as they were grown enough to make their own way in the world. This was sometimes called "to run you off" as if to chase a child off the property. But, in the case of Ennis's parents, they "ran themselves off" by killing themselves in a car accident, presumably by missing a "curve" or bend in the road. With the breadwinners/mortgage-holders gone, the "bank took the ranch"--repossessed it.
Ennis: No, they run themselves off. There was one curve in the road in 43 miles, and they miss it. So the bank took the ranch and my brother and sister, they raised me, mostly.
Well, guys, I cannot understand just one thing. What on earth could this mean -- "They run themselves off". You know, speaking about Ennis, it sounds like "his parents made him leave the home". But speaking about parents?? I just hope it means they just HAD to leave for some reason. Or, maybe, Ennis talking about their death here? I'm sorry, guys, I've just been looking for russian translation of this idiom and it seems, ahem, a bit strange, you know. I hope I just misunderstandig this. And I am also not sure about the meaning of "curve" - what exactly is it?. And they missed it - because of bank, isn't it? Isn't it kind of being bankrupt?
Excellent, JfM!Oh thank you very much. Now I understood the meaning of "to miss the curve". There's no a single word about it in Russian dubbing. Ennis is just saying that the place he and his parents lived in, was empty and there was no soul on the nearest 40 miles.
So, regarding your first question:
It was common for poor rural people to make their children leave home as soon as they were grown enough to make their own way in the world. This was sometimes called "to run you off" as if to chase a child off the property. But, in the case of Ennis's parents, they "ran themselves off" by killing themselves in a car accident, presumably by missing a "curve" or bend in the road. With the breadwinners/mortgage-holders gone, the "bank took the ranch"--repossessed it.
Jack: Your folks run you off?
Ennis: No, they run themselves off. There was one curve in the road in 43 miles, and they miss it. So the bank took the ranch and my brother and sister, they raised me, mostly.
Well, guys, I cannot understand just one thing. What on earth could this mean -- "They run themselves off". You know, speaking about Ennis, it sounds like "his parents made him leave the home". But speaking about parents?? I just hope it means they just HAD to leave for some reason. Or, maybe, Ennis talking about their death here? I'm sorry, guys, I've just been looking for russian translation of this idiom and it seems, ahem, a bit strange, you know. I hope I just misunderstandig this. And I am also not sure about the meaning of "curve" - what exactly is it?. And they missed it - because of bank, isn't it? Isn't it kind of being bankrupt?
Ennis: Well, I don't eat soup. ** You wanna watch it there. That horse has a low startle point.
low startle point - there are two meanings in the dictionary, first is that horse is fearful and second - that she's wild or agressive a bit. Which meaning is the best?
Jack: Let's git, unless you wanna sit around tying knots all day
let's git - in fact, I saw "git" is a kind of bad guy or something, so for sure it's not what I need here. maybe it is dialect form of "get"? Can I translate it as "Be hurry" or "let's do it faster"?
Jack: Shit, that stay with the sheep, no fire bullshit, Aguirre got no right making us do something against the rules.
it means, that all this rules are impossible to follow, doesn't it?
Basque: Too early in the summer to be sick of beans.
I suppose that this phrase (or at least its first part - too early in the summer) is an idiom. Right? Because Basque is kind of sneering there, you know. In Russian version he says, "O-oh, how soft (or, better, delicate) we are." (It's Russian "sneering" thing -- sayings like "Oh how [adjective] we are" and it means "You" instaed We, "We" in such situations adds more sarcasm)
[Ennis shots an elk] Ennis: Getting tired of your dumb-ass missing.
Jack: What? Let's get a move on. Don't want the Game and Fish to catch us with no elk.
I saw that Game and Fish is kind of organisation of Wyoming that controls underlaw hunting. Is that right? so can i translate it like this: organisation controls underlaw hunting? of course, I got a much better russian wording than the one I have quoted, I just need you to understad me. And the second one right here: with no elk. I s'pose that's the dialect form and in fact it means "with this dead elk", right?
Ennis: I mean, what's the point of riding some piece of stock for eight seconds?
piece of stock. Can I change it into just "a bull"?
Ennis: They did the best they could after my folks was gone
according to the first item, "to be gone" means to be dead in this context, right? Ennis's parents haven't just left their place to somewhere else, have they?
Ennis: Speak for yourself. You may be a sinner, but I ain't yet had the opportunity.
"hadn't had the opportunity". It's not quite clear for me. How would you say it (in) the other way? In Russian version he says "Maybe you're a sinner, but I, being compared to you, am as innocent as a little child".
Ennis: This is a one-shot thing we got going on here.
one-shot thing — may I translate this phrase as a thing that shouldn't happen again?
Jack: (Saying goodbye to Ennis before their 4-iear separation) I might be back. If the Army don't get me.
So that's a good question for sitizens of US. How was it going with army and all at sixties? It was honor to join the army, wasn't it? I mean, here in Russia it is quite okay to avoid employment. And, what is important, we can avoid it only having kind of decease. And, you know, it is quite dangerous to join our army these days. There's big likelyhood of being killed there (not being sent to war but because of dedovshchina here (physical and psychological abuse of new recruits in the army -- term from the dictionary).
Alma: There's a cheap place in Riverton, over the Laundromat. I bet I could fix it up real nice.
Fix up, as I see, means to repair or something; but it's quite strange for a woman to repair broken stuff or even repair the whole house, I mean something like having new furniture, or other maintenance works at one's place. I s'pose Alma talks about making house more comfortable and cosy, you know.
Barman: You ever try calf roping?
Jack: Do I look like I can afford a f*cking roping horse?
I've read something about rodeo, and I found out what exactly is calf roping. But what is Jack talking about? Can't afford? He means, such horses are expensive? If yes, it means that a rider should have his own horse, yeah?
Ennis: Alma, I can't afford not to be there when the heifers calve. Right, it'd be my job if I lose any of them.
"It would be my job if I lose any of them". It's not quite clear for me; in russian version he just says, "I would lose my job if I'm not there now". May I leave it as it is in russian dubbing?
Alma: Hey, Ennis, you know somebody, name of Jack?
Ennis: Maybe around. Why?
"Maybe around". Ennis says this Jack could be someone around their place they live, right?
Postcard: Friend, this letter is long over due. Coming through on the 24th...
Long over due. It means this postcard should have been (or being -- I'm not sure how to use Perfect Passive tenses) written really long ago and in fact it's not very good that it has come in very long four years after their last meeting, right?
Jack: Right next summer, I drove back up to Brokeback... Went down to Texas for rodeoing. That's how I met Lureen. Made $2,000 that year, bull riding. Nearly starved.
I don't understand this. If Jack had got 2000 dollars that year, why was he starving?
Ennis: And the Army didn't get you?
Jack: No, too busted up. And rodeoing ain't what it was in my daddy's day. Got out while l could still walk.
There are two questions appears. First, as I asked, it seems that employment was obligatory, right? So Jack, having no problems with health, coudn't avoid army. And, second, what exactly does he mean saying that rodeo is not what it was earlier?
Lureen: I thought you were gonna call.
Jack: I complain too much. That teacher don't like me.
Jack complains??? I hope there are different meanings of this word, because the dictionary's one is... well, strange a bit for Jack. Look, for example, children complain often when the other child takes their toys; or adults complain of having bad life not trying to change it. What exactly is happening between Jack and Bobby's teacher?
Jack: (To L.D., Lureen's father) ...and you are my guest. Now you sit down before I knock your ignorant ass into next week.
May I translate it just like "...before I throw you out of my house"?
Alma: I'm going to yell for Monroe.
Ennis: You do it and I'll make you eat the f*cking floor.
Alma: Get out!
Ennis: And you, too!
It's not clear for me. Maybe my Subtitles are uncorrect, and Ennis says "I'll make HIM eat the f*cking floor" (and, then, "And you, too!", what is more logical)?
Jack: So what we got now is Brokeback Mountain! Everything's built on that! That's all we got, boy. F*cking all. So I hope you know that, if you don't never know the rest!
The last sentence is not understandable for me. It seems for me like that: Jack hopes Ennis realises that they have nothing but BrokebackMountain, but all his Mexico deals are not important, anyway.
Lureen: Well, he said it was his favorite place. I thought he meant to get drunk. He drank a lot.
What exactly does Lureen mean? That she thought Brokeback Mountain was the favourite place of Jack to get drunk?
Jack’s father: ...He had some half-baked notion the two of you was gonna move up here, build a cabin, help run the place.
What exactly is half-baked notion? Some kind of idea, that you want to turn into life, but without proper planning, right?
Jack’s mother: I kept his room * like it was when he was a boy. * I think he appreciated that. * You are welcome to go up to his room, if you want.
Well, guys. I have no any translation difficulties here. But I don't understand, what exactly Jack's mom means. "Like it was, when he was a boy"?? But wait a minute, Jack has visited them a couple months ago, and anyway, he's got their shirts there in his room -- and he wasn't BOY already, when he came down from Brokeback -- I mean, maybe she means that she never changed anything in his room ever?
Alma Jr: Daddy, you need more furniture.
Ennis: Yeah, well, if you got nothing, you don't need nothing.
In Russian version Ennis says: "If you got nothing, you have nothing to lose". May I leave it like it is in dubbing? It sounds even better, for my opinion.
Sorry, Jack, I gave more than just a Yes/No response to your questions. But, I love talking about our beloved film.
I have a question for you: How is "Jack Nasty" translated in Russian? In French, the subtitles say "Jack contre la nature (Jack against nature)" and in German, they say "Jack das Schwein (Jack the pig)". It seems translators have taken a lot of liberty with this one.
Here's some extra information:
Just right now it is already Monday here, and time is about 1:50 after midnight.
And I gotta work tomorrow (in fact, today already). so thank you very much again!
I really like that our -- yes! -- beloved Brokeback Mountain connect people all around the world! =) :D :D
18)
(JackfromMoscow wrote:
Ennis: And the Army didn't get you?
Jack: No, too busted up. And rodeoing ain't what it was in my daddy's day. Got out while l could still walk.
There are two questions appears. First, as I asked, it seems that employment was obligatory, right? So Jack, having no problems with health, coudn't avoid army. And, second, what exactly does he mean saying that rodeo is not what it was earlier?)
1) Conscription into the army has nothing to do with employment. Employment was never "obligatory"; you work to eat. You don't work, you don't eat. The army certainly conscripted men with jobs. (Some jobs may have allowed one to avoid the army, such as clergy, I believe.) However, here Jack is saying that he didn't get drafted/conscripted by the army because he DID have heatlh problems, that is, injuries from the rodeo, "too busted up".
2) Here, I think Jack refers to rodeoing becoming more challenging physically. In the story, Jack mentions that "now" there are trained athletes competing in the rodeo, when back in his daddy's day probably anyone could rodeo.
I really appreciate that my topic has made the whole discussion!
And I'm very sorry, as I said, my English is poor and I need some words from your messages to translate. It takes much time.
So this topic is another big job for me. Because I want to understand every word of BB.
Speaking of army, it seems I've chosen not a good word -- employment. Look, what I wanted to say.
How is it in Russia. When you become 18 years old, you have to join our army. It is just one year you should be there. You can avoid it (not join) only having problems with health. So, as I said earlier, it's quite dangerous here to join the Army these days -- I'm not about being sent to war, but danger is all what happening there. So there are a lot of guys who just afraid to join it; and a lot of mothers who don't want their sons join it. We have very widespreaded corruption here, so you can just pay some money (about 3000$ as I know) to "get" a decease.
So I just want to know, how was it in US in 1963. In fact, I just need Ennis's phrase to say in Russian:
Are you going to join the army, Jack, voluntarily/of one's own accord/of one's own free will (these are from dictionary for better understanding)
OR
What about army? Won't it get you?
So the point is, does Jack want to join or he has to join.
I hope I make it clear.
It's terrible having such — maybe, not really bad, — but slooooooooow English.
P.S. For you to know, this post took 25 minutes.
Btw, I watched BBM with Polish subs once and I gotta say the poles did a very good job :) oh, and in Polish ver Jack Nasty = Jack Zboczeniec (zboczeniec= pervert, it's a very strong word), I liked this one more than the original even :D
Jack: Shit, that stay with the sheep, no fire bullshit, Aguirre got no right making us do something against the rules.
QuoteEnnis: This is a one-shot thing we got going on here.
This one is a bit controversial. "One-shot thing" means "once only", "one time only".
However, it's not clear that he is saying "it shouldn't happen again". The rest of the sentence, "we got going on here" implies that it might keep on happening. He's using the present tense. (Not "a one-shot thing we did".) To me, the "one-shot thing" refers to the whole arrangement this summer.
Aquirre: There's not much you can do about it down there, neither. Unless you can cure pneumonia.
Lashawn: Our husbands aren't interested in dancing. They ain't got a smidgen of rhythm between 'emI've written it with bold type, the part I cannot understand. What exactly does Lashawn mean here?
Jack: ...as far as our marriage goes, we could do it over the phone.What exactly does he mean here? May I rephrase it into "Recently we could speak by the phone only" so that would mean that they are getting far from each other, their meetings became rare, etc?
Ennis: It was hard enough getting this time. The trade-off was August.What is the trade-off Ennis is talking about? Maybe, he's saying here, the August of theprevious year was trade-off?
QuoteBut first, want a cup of coffee, don't ya? Piece a cherry cake? ;)Oh, you know. A coffee would be great, but cake... I can't eat it just right now.
I would have a piece but only after ending my translation work
Jack is saying that Aguirre should not make them go against the rules. The forestry service makes shepherds camp in allotted places, but Aguirre wants Jack to set up an additional tent (just a pup tent, but a tent nevertheless) near where the sheep are grazing in order to protect them at night. He wants them to roll up the tent every morning and be on the "QT" (quiet time) so Forestry doesn't figure out that there's an extra tent site.
Right here I can't understand this very part of the phrase: "Aguirre got no right making us do something against the rules".
I suppose that he uses doble negation here, and it makes more difficult for me. Well, I could understand, if he'd say something like "He got no right to make us follow all these rules". If my variant is equal to the original, it would be very good.
10a
Aquirre: There's not much you can do about it down there, neither. Unless you can cure pneumonia.
Well, his tone and face expression make it seem that the reason why he says such strange phrase is what he have seen that day. What does he really imply (has in his mind)? Is it related somehow to the fact he've seen their "stem the rose" stuff? Russian version doesn't make it clear at all: "There's nothing you can do down there, if you're not a wizard". When I saw this first time, I thought: "wtf is he talking about?? a wizard??" it's quite weird in Russian.
13a) There's a Biker in the scene of the Independence day, saying: "There are so many pussies here ready to be humped like a frog". Oh Jeez, I hate translating their speech (of these Bikers), but I can't solve the problem avoiding it. So guys, would you please tell me if I may translate the last part of the upper phrase like this: "...pussies ready to be f*cked"?
Lashawn: Our husbands aren't interested in dancing. They ain't got a smidgen of rhythm between 'em
I've written it with bold type, the part I cannot understand. What exactly does Lashawn mean here?
P.S. Her name is a nightmare for Russian translators Cheesy I mean, we know there are such American names like Jack, Kate or Alex. They are quite easy to pronounce. But Lashawn... This name doesn't sound good here, 'cause we have no diphthongs in Russian language and combination of letters such as "Lash" is pretty extraordinary for russian pronunsiation.
Jack: ...as far as our marriage goes, we could do it over the phone.
What exactly does he mean here? May I rephrase it into "Recently we could speak by the phone only" so that would mean that they are getting far from each other, their meetings became rare, etc?
Ennis: It was hard enough getting this time. The trade-off was August.
What is the trade-off Ennis is talking about? Maybe, he's saying here, the August of theprevious year was trade-off?
Oh boy! Thank you so much for making it clear for me. I would never know it's an idiom, because even Russian dubbers translated it in the word-to-word way. Russian official dubbing is not just turning the whole phrases upside down, it contains even idiom mistakes as well. In our version Jack says in the scene that he and his wife talked to each other by the phone recently. Great. :-\QuoteJack: ...as far as our marriage goes, we could do it over the phone.It's an idiom... <...>
So my variant of his phrase would be like this:QuoteEnnis: It was hard enough getting this time. The trade-off was August....the "trade-off" means he has traded time off now (May), and August cannot happen.
P.S. I haven't wound a way to preset the image's size... but I pretty like that Ennis's smile takes the whole screen to be viewed.
(http://i136.photobucket.com/albums/q186/southendmd/lisajacknastycloseup.jpg)
This is a tricky one. The way I interpreted it was that Jack preferred meat but Ennis was content with beans. But Ennis wanted to please Jack, so he shot an elk for him and they enjoyed the meat. In the same way, Jack wanted Ennis to continue the intimacy with him and not just be content with the status quo. So, I think he was speaking metaphorically here.
1) Jack: No more beans.
Shortly speaking, it is Jack asking Ennis not to cook those beans on the supper this evening, right? He asks and then he rides back to the sheep.
2) Ennis: I wouldn't mind sleeping out there.The forest service owns the land and they want to keep it as wild as possible. Having little tents all over the place despoils the land so they just allowed tents on allotments.
Jack: That ain't the point. The point is, we both ought to be in this camp.
This camp -- he's talking about the legal main camp where Ennis is, is that right? Why, they're not ought to be there both, one of them should be up there with the sheep, right? And I still can't figure out, why Aguirre makes Jack sleep with the sheep illegally. I mean, why is it illegal? Had Aguirre had to pay more for extra tents, or something? I repeat once more, it's pretty logical to send a herder up there to watch the sheep not to be eaten by coyotes.
3) About the pneumonia again -- I have no translation problems, but is there anyone who could explain why does Aguirre using such strange phrase? Is it sure enough he doesn't imply anything hidden? What exactly has he got in his mind?I'm assuming you mean "Not unless you can cure pneumonia". Aguirre means to say that even though Jack's mom made Aguirre ride up and tell Jack that his uncle had pneumonia, it didn't mean that Aguirre was going to allow Jack to leave the mountain to see his uncle. To Aguirre, it wouldn't make any difference to the uncle's health whether Jack was with him or not, since Jack couldn't cure pneumonia. When Aguirre said this, it was the second reference to Jack supposedly working miracles. The previous summer, Aguirre got mad at Jack about sheep being struck by lightning, as if, Jack said "I could control the weather". This was an element of the parallels to Christ that are present in the movie and book.
4) Jack: [Aguirre] says there's a storm coming, moving in from the Pacific. Worse than this one.They use the words snow and storm synonymously.
Ennis: That snow barely stuck an hour. Huh?
It sounds like Ennis make his phrase an counter-evidence. But what on Earth could be the correlation between snow and a storm? I mean, it seems like Ennis's saying that if the snow disappear, the storm wouldn't come. We seldom have storms with snow in Moscow here, so maybe I just don't know there IS a correlation :)
5) There is a moment that seems interesting to me.Yes, I think this exchange shows that Ennis is a roughneck, while Monroe is more cultured. There's also a sly play on words, since Ennis seems to jump to the conclusion that Monroe is talking about the "condoms" aisle. :P
Ennis: Is Alma here?
Monroe: Yeah, she's in the condiments aisle.
Ennis: The what?
Monroe: Ketchup.
Well, I think that condiments is pretty tricky word with lots of letters — "species" would sound and spell more easily. So when Monroe says "In the condiments aisle", is that right that Ennis didn't understand (or maybe had just misheard) this word and that is why he re-asks: The what?
You know, that could be a little detail for Ennis's portrait of a "roughneck" man.
6) Ennis: I'll be half the night. Bring home some ground steaks if you think of it.I think this is just something he tacks on at the end so his statement wouldn't sound so harsh. Also, refer to the meat/beans discussion above
Why would Alma think of ground steaks? May I translate it like "If you want to", or "I'll try to bring them"?
7) Alma: Okay, we take one more bite, and then you're finished with dinner. There, that's a good bite. All right, you're excused. Please. Thank you.I agree with you on this translation.
To be excused means here "You may leave to whereever you want, finally, after finishing dinner, right? And the last three words (Please. Thank you), what do they mean? In russian dubbing it sounds like "Where's your "Thanks [for food]"?" I mean, saying Thanks to the person who cooked after having dinner is a sign of good manners, but Alma Jr, being a child, doesn't care of any manners :)
8) -- Oh, this cowboy with glasses, again =) Eight) Ennis: We might not get back tonight when we get to drinking and talking and all.There is something missing in your translation in that Ennis is being disingenuous. He's saying "drinkin' and talkin' and all" because he is already thinking about getting "into this again" with Jack (see next question)
May I translate it like this: "We might not get back, 'cause we are going to drink and talk all the night"? Is that a correct sence?
9) There's some questions about their motel dialogue.I'll have to research that and get back to you!
Jack: ...Swear to God, I didn't know we was going to get into this again. No, I guess I did. I red-lined it all the way. I couldn't get here fast enough. What about you?
Ennis: Me? Mmm. I don't know.
Jack: Old Brokeback got us good, don't it? What are we gonna do now?
Ennis: I doubt there's nothing we can do. So now I'm stuck with what I got here. Making a living is about all I got time for now.
So the first and the main question that makes me really anxious: how exactly do they regard (or what do they thing about) their relationship (connection)?
To get into THIS?? Well, I'l explain. It seems to me that they don't take it seriously, I mean, they think it is just something uncontrollable that happens sometimes. Maybe I don't need your explanations; this forum is quite big and maybe I just need to read some topics to understand. (P.S. I mean, there are some posts about it, but I couldn't read some of topics here with thousands of posts =) So it would be great if someone write the link to those posts.)
I red-lined it all the way. -- What exactly did he red-line, their meeting after four years, or them living together (being GOT into THIS)?To "red-line" means to go so fast that the speedometer needle goes all the way to the end where there is a red line. On my dad's old Cadillac, that was at 140 miles per hour.
Further question. Brokeback got us good -- It seems the best sence I could figure out, is: "We met each other on Brokeback and the time we spent was amazing. Without Brokeback, we would never met".I think Jack was saying that the "spell" or enchantment of Brokeback had great power over them, so that the subsequent years paled by comparison.
The third one. Making a living -- what exactly does that mean? I think Ennis talks about he works much and he needs earning money for his family, so he has extremely little time to spend with Jack.Correct, and also Ennis was reiterating that he felt he needed to keep to the status quo and not do anything risky or out of the ordinary.
And fourth. Ennis: The bottom line is, we're around each other and this thing grabs hold of us again...Yes, and (sigh) yes.
And again, this thing?! Why does Ennis use word... "THING"? It sounds for me like his relations with Jack is something that he isn't happy about. Or, maybe, the something, that he wants so much but can't keep himself off of.
Alma: Ennis. As far behind as we are on the bills, it makes me nervous not to take no precaution.It sounds to me like they have some past-due bills.
Ennis: If you don't want no more of my kids, I'll be happy to leave you alone.
Alma: I'd have them, if you'd support them.
As far behind as we are on the bills -- What exactly does it mean? a) They just have a lot of bills that should be paid out; b) they just have a lot of bills (I mean, the fact they have got them is the mainest here); or c) there's no money to pay those bills out, no matter how much bills they got, they couldn't pay out any of them.
Those nuances are quite important for translating, 'cause I can't translate this part of the phrase (as far behind as we are) in word-to-word way.
The next one here: I'd have them, if you'd support them. I can fugure out two sences here, which make this scene quite different. First: Is Alma talking about that in fact she wants more children, but as Ennis doesn't earn much money, they just can't afford them? And second: Maybe those words are expressing their extremely quick decision to devorce? «-- I'd be happy to leave you alone -- Sure, I'll take our girls (Alma Jr. and Jenny) if you would pay monthly child support.» -- And then they turn themselves back to each other, that means they accept their decision and there's no way back?Yes, I think Alma is complaining about the low-paying jobs that Ennis takes on ranches instead of working in town. We don't really know how much time passed in between the bedtime conversation and the divorce. It looked like Jenny was in maybe fourth or fifth grade, so several years could have passed
11) Alma: So, one night, I got your creel case open night before you went on one of your little trips.I would say she opened it herself but by using the word "got" she made it passive voice so it wouldn't sound so blatant.
Oh this verb again. Was it accidentally, that she had found his case opened, or she had opened it on purpose?
12) Ennis: That don't mean nothing, Alma.The underlined words come close but they don't include the implication of meaninglessness and that Alma's words and thoughts don't count for anything, which Ennis manages to convey.
"This is not what you're thinking about, Alma [you're wrong about it, you misunderstand it]" -- is that a good sence? I would really like to translate this phrase like that underlined part.
13) Ennis: Well, you got a better idea?I agree with your translation. I think Jack is saying "I did, once (upon a time)"
Jack: I did, once.
Please, say, Jack means that he several times (not once) proposed to Ennis to live together, "ranch somewhere", move to Texas... right? If he talks about Mexico (We ought to go to Mexico -- That's the idea), it would just break my heart.
14) You have no idea how bad it gets.Correct. Jack is saying "I'm not like you. I can't be content with no intimacy."
Would be this phrase: "You have no idea how bad I felt! [without you/or with other men, by the way?]" good equivalent to the original one? (Again! this verb "got" :-/)
15) Ennis: I was probably no fun anyways, was l?Yes, that's what she means. Maybe there are some people who "fall in love with fun" but they're not the kind of people you want to watch epic movies about!
Cassie: Ennis, girls don't fall in love with fun.
This scene is quite confusing for me. "I was no fun" -- it means, that he's not as funny and happy as she was, so she doesn't [deserve -- dunno how to say] living with such depressed person, or something (That she's too young and he's old already)? And what does she mean by her answer? "Fun is NOT what girls do love; I fell in love with you because of some other reasons?" -- does she mean exactly that?
13)When Jack says he 'can't afford a f*cking ropin' horse', it literally means he does not have enough money for it. You're right in saying a calf roper would have to have his own horse. He'd also have to be able to feed it, keep it in shoes, keep it healthy, have a reliable truck and trailer to carry it between events, and pay for it to be stabled when not rodeoing. For someone like Jack not earning a lot of cash and barely feeding himself, it's going to be near impossible to maintain a horse.
Quote
Barman: You ever try calf roping?
Jack: Do I look like I can afford a f*cking roping horse?
I've read something about rodeo, and I found out what exactly is calf roping. But what is Jack talking about? Can't afford? He means, such horses are expensive? If yes, it means that a rider should have his own horse, yeah?
But the herder, he's gonna pitch a pup tent on the QT with the sheep and he's gonna sleep there.Generally a pup tent is a small tent, yes. Specifically, one that's easily put up/taken down. It's meant to be a very temporary shelter (and not usually even a very good one) unlike the big tent the boys slept in at the base camp. Not a place I'd want to spend many nights, let alone EVERY night.
pup tent maens little tent, not big one;
on the QT = at night (or on the space of time when forestry stopsOn the QT = on the quiet. Don't tell anyone, don't be obvious about it, don't leave any sign you did it.checking the territorysnooping around)
Quote from: southendmd...the "trade-off" means he has traded time off now (May), and August cannot happen.
So my variant of his phrase would be like this:
It was hard enough getting this time. (probably May) So there's nothing to say about August. (Nothing to say about something — in Russian language it means that the something is certainly not going to happen in any case — just want you to feel the sense I put in the phrase)
I suppose it would sound good.
On the QT = on the quiet. Don't tell anyone, don't be obvious about it, don't leave any sign you did it.
Oh, I've just remembered another ones.
1) I didn't know we was going to get into this again. No, I guess I did. I red-lined it all the way.
So you sure to red-line here means only that Jack was riding very fast? Tell you what, to red-line means to ride as fast as possible. But to red-line something? (I red-lined it...). You sure I can't translate I red-lined it like I couldn't think about anything but this [getting into this]?
2) I'd like to buy Jimbo a beer here.
Jimbo is clown's name, right?
So my variant of his phrase would be like this:That's a hard verbal exchange and I think you've done a pretty accurate job at representing the feeling behind it. The words may not translate accurately from English - Russian, but the point is that one week is hard enough for Ennis to get. Two weeks will not happen.
It was hard enough getting this time. (probably May) So there's nothing to say about August. (Nothing to say about something — in Russian language it means that the something is certainly not going to happen in any case — just want you to feel the sense I put in the phrase)
I suppose it would sound good.
So guys, trade-off was August -- it means here, that Ennis could get August time, BUT ONLY instead of their presumable May, right? Would my quoted translation sound good? Are there any missings of sence?
It was hard to get time off this time [May], so there's nothing to say about August!
P.S. Writing this very post, I have found sence missing. But it's very little, I s'pose, yea?
Instead of saying Ennis could get May time OR August time (but he already HAS got May time as we see), I will say in my translation: as they already HAD had their May meeting, the next one can not be in August. It was in the first place: Ennis had had to choose between May and August.
It seems that he was asking his boss about May and August, but boss said he could only choose between those months. Not to take both times.
... Oh boy, it is so hard for me. Please, if everything above seems to be a piece of unintelligible, incomprehensible, strange, odd, obscure sh*t (I got those word from the dictionary), ask me to rewrite it.
You are right in assuming that "red-lining" means to drive fast. Red-lining it just means he had the speedometer (or the tachometer/RPMs in a manual transmission) as high as it would go, in the 'red zone', pushing his truck to its limits in order to get to Ennis as fast as possible.Yup, I understand — thanks!
I admire your desire to get it all right!Thank you very much! But I always feel I'm too meticulous (hope that's a proper word — or, maybe, captious?); I feel awkward a bit, asking one question two or even three times. That is why I really appreciate your help! You spend your time helping me.
Trying to translate BBM from English to Spanish would be an absolute nightmore!So you just imagine translating into Russian! =) And we got here millions of variants of translating. I wrote it above: verb "get" in different situations has 500 ways to be translated.
"I didn't know we was going to get into this again. No, I guess, [in fact] I did [know]. I drove as fast as possible. And I couldn't wait till I finally come to you; waiting was excruciating; poignant; anguished (from the dictionary) /=waiting was terrible for me/QuoteIf you have a choice in which word to use at the last of your sentence, I'd use excruciating. That's probably the most accurate description of how Jack must've been feeling.QuoteThank you very much! But I always feel I'm too meticulous (hope that's a proper word — or, maybe, captious?); I feel awkward a bit, asking one question two or even three times. That is why I really appreciate your help! You spend your time helping me.It is a pleasure! In college I hung out a lot with international students and one of our favorite things to do together was have 'slang sessions.' We'd get together and they'd ask us what certain phrases meant, or we'd come up with a few phrases to teach them. They'd return the favor and teach us a few slang phrases in their own languages. SO much fun. I love languages. (PS - it's ok to be meticulous. It has a positive meaning!)
coffeedrinkintexan:So you just imagine translating into Russian! =) And we got here millions of variants of translating. I wrote it above: verb "get" in different situations has 500 ways to be translated.I can imagine. I wouldn't begin to know how to translate that into Spanish, either. Translators try to make up stuff either because they don't get it themselves, or they try to translate word-for-word which you can't do sometimes, or sometimes the phrases just don't lend themselves to translation. I see it all the time in Spanish/English dubbing so I get it. Grrr.
Now the biggest problem for me is how to translate the next phrases:
I didn't think we're going to get into this again...
Old Brokeback got us good...
This thing grabs hold on us again...
This is a one-shot thing we got goin' here...
I understand 'em pretty good. But now with making them all clear, I think of how to translate it properly, without any missings of sence.
I want russian fans to have an opportunity of discussing BBM as BetterMostians do without necessary of knowing English. 'Cuz having russian dubbing, we'll discuss their dim-witted translations and make-ups, not what have been said in the original. Therefore, there's nothing to discuss in Russian.
Here's another ones. In fact I just need to be sure of them."Do you rodeo?" is probably closest to meaning. Jack's trying to find some common ground between them - he's already asked Ennis if he's from "ranch people" like himself.
1) You ever rodeo?
What exactly is here? Have you ever tried to rodeo/Did you rodeo/Do you rodeo? (I think the last one is the best. It seems that rodeo was a real way of earning money, kind of a job, I would say. So Jack asks if Ennis earns money by rodeoing/or maybe if he just likes rodeo and money is not the point for him. It doesn't matter, anyway: it's /Present Simple Tense / here, isn't it?)
2) You know, I mean, once in a while.Thing is, it's debatable here whether Ennis really even rodeos at all. You've got the Thanksgiving scene after he and Alma divorce when he talks about all three seconds of riding broncs, and that's the story of his rodeo career. Personally, I think Ennis is trying to impress his new friend and say he rodeos a lot more than he actually has. For a literal translation, I think you're right that the answer is "rarely." But for the impression he's trying to give, "sometimes" might be the right choice....whether it's actually true or not.
What'd be better: sometimes or rarely? I'd take rarely.
UPD: rarely isn't proper word expressing what I got here in Russian. The point is, sometimes implies a bit more often then rarely, right?
3) Can't wait till I get my own spread...Exactly.
Spread = ranch, right?
Personally, I think Ennis is trying to impress his new friend and say he rodeos a lot more than he actually has.Oh, cofeedrinkintexan, now I understood this one, thanks! Yeah, now I'm pretty sure as well that Ennis do tries to impress Jack. 'Cuz writing that question about "once in a while" I was thinking that Ennis told his girls his career was no more then just three-seconds-long on a bronc. I saw a disparity there. But now if consider that Ennis, maybe, tries to impress Jack and overstates his rodeoing a bit. Of course, 'sometimes' in this case is the best.
So, coffeedrinkintexan, I got both a very tricky and important phrase here. Maybe I understand it and maybe I don't.Hahaha, you're too kind. My opinion is just my little opinion.
Here it is:
This is a one-shot thing we got going on here
I want to know your opinion, your view at this. How would you rephrase it? Maybe it's because of awkwardness Ennis says this phrase the way he has said it? Maybe he wants to say that this thing, yes, it did happen, but it was once only (one-shot thing); but Ennis's not sure he Doesn't want to continue it, so he says his further "we got going here"...
Uurgh. Maybe good variant would be this: Everything that is happening to us here is one time only.
But seems o lose sence a bit.
Anyway, my dear texan who likes coffee so much, what's your opinion?
1) sure enough.
This choice of words, as I think, implies the following: "Oh yeah, considering what I have just seen, no doubt you're going just to drink and talk and nothing more than that.
I ask because the translation would be like this: "We're going to get some walk and drink. - Oh yeah, drink [, of course]"
2) Is he somebody you cowboyed with or what?I think that's a great way to get the meaning across. You're right that cowboy is not a verb - it's not a verb in proper English either. Your translation seems to be the best way to get across the meaning without it sounding too awkward.
Well, it's sure unough we got here the noun cowboy, but not the verb. I think asking about what did cowboys do back in the sixties suggests an unnessasary big answer, so maybe official dubbing sounds good: "Is he somebody you used to work on a ranch, or what?".
3) You bet. (Answering Jack on a postcard)"You bet" is like a stronger version of "yes", which I'm sure you already know. More like "absolutely" or "oh God, yes", but I agree with you that "of course" doesn't sound good. Not something Ennis would say at all.
What's the most exact meaning here? In russian dubbing this phrase is voiced over like "of course ". But I don't like this translation. May I translate it like "Come /imperative/"? [Yes, Jack, I'm here, you may come, I'll be waiting for you]".
Look, what I mean:
We got here hundreds of forms of verbs in different tenses, conjugations, etc. And there's two verbs that mean "to come ": first means to come by a car/train/cicle, and the first one means to come by walking(just like English' go and ride).
So I'd translate "You bet" using this our first verb in imperative form.
4) My daddy, he was a fine roper, though didn't rodeo mostly.Yes, Ennis is talking about his dad being a calf roper....it seems calf roping was viewed as kind of a step up from the bull-riding Jack did, like maybe it required more skill, definitely more money. Ennis dad thought "rodeo cowboys was all fuckups." I honestly don't know what to do with that one if there's not a place in the Russian vocabulary for calf roper. I guess "cowboy" sounds ok. Sorry I can't help you more on that one!!
Who's roper? Why not just a rider? Rodeo implies riders who specialize their rides? I mean, one can choose between calf roping and bull riding? Or what?
Oh, we here in Russia don't know anything about rodeo. Not about clowns, and calf roping, and any extra entertainments (like sheep riding for children). Only thing we know about rodeo is a crazy bull that spin and jump and tries to kill its rider Cheesy so I'm sure enough many russians would confuse rodeo to Spanish corrida.
So, maybe I'll change roper into cowboy? Or, maybe, rider?
Quote from: JackFromMoscow on February 07, 2015, 05:33:34 pmThose explanations have helped me a lot to understand what's going on there with all this illegal theme. Thanks to Front-Ranger! But there's something I can't understand. It is Jack's phrase:QuoteEnnis: I wouldn't mind sleeping out there.Front-Ranger: The forest service owns the land and they want to keep it as wild as possible. Having little tents all over the place despoils the land so they just allowed tents on allotments.
Jack: That ain't the point. The point is, we both ought to be in this camp.
This camp -- he's talking about the legal main camp where Ennis is, is that right? Why, they're not ought to be there both, one of them should be up there with the sheep, right? And I still can't figure out, why Aguirre makes Jack sleep with the sheep illegally. I mean, why is it illegal? Had Aguirre had to pay more for extra tents, or something? I repeat once more, it's pretty logical to send a herder up there to watch the sheep not to be eaten by coyotes.
2) Jack: You ever rodeo?
Ennis: Once in a while <...>
Jack: Are you from ranch people?
Ennis: Yeah, I was.
I don't know much about what did people do back in sixties. So would you please explain.
I see two sences here. I feel something like "To rodeo' is opposite to "To be from ranch people", look what I mean: I suppose that there were two (principal??) ways of earning money those years: the first is rodeoing and the second is ranching. Both are pretty good for making livings. So there were people who have chosen rodeo and the other who have chosen ranching. (And, of course, a lot of people who chose nor of what I've listed)
...But the further I write it, the more I doubt: Maybe Jack's second question refers to something different: "Are you from ranch people [as I am, or you're from a city]?
All I need to know is the following:
Do you rodeo? — Sometimes. — [So if you don't rodeo much], then you must be from ranch people, right?
So that part in the square brackets, is it implied or not? Oh with my f*cking poor English everything I've written above seems to sound very odd.
Poor boy who efforts to express his thoughts ???
3) While you stem the rose.This strange phrase has been understood several ways. You might try googling it to see some of the meanings. Here's the way I understand it but others may have an entirely different take. (Graphic language follows) It's a euphemism for the act of anal sex. If you think of the anus as looking a bit like a rosebud, then if you apply the penis to it, it's sort of like adding a stem to the rose. That's just my interpretation. Annie Proulx likes to throw in obscure phrases like that. She does a lot of research and probably heard it somewhere., or maybe she just made it up. So, how to translate this...does Russian have euphemisms for sex? I'm sure it does. Maybe you could choose one that refers to flowers.
Oh, my. I just have no clue how to translate it! I mean, in Russian dubbing it sounds like this: "...while you were making love up there". But it seems to be not very exact.
Don't know what is more to say. :-( I'll HAVE to translate it... Somehow. I mean, to transfer this choice of words into Russian. I think I'll ask it on our local BBM forum, or in VK communities.
5) That fire and brimstone crowd?Certain Pentacostal sects of Christianity, particularly in rural places, dwell on the Book of Revelations in the Bible which discusses the proposed second coming of Christ, where sinners will be thrown into the fires and brimstone of Hell. Ennis scoffs at this scenario but underneath his exterior the scared little child still exists.
Why do you think Ennis answers like this?
Certain Pentacostal sects of Christianity, particularly in rural places, dwell on the Book of Revelations in the Bible which discusses the proposed second coming of Christ, where sinners will be thrown into the fires and brimstone of Hell. Ennis scoffs at this scenario but underneath his exterior the scared little child still exists.This was how I grew up.
3) While you stem the rose.
Oh, my. I just have no clue how to translate it! I mean, in Russian dubbing it sounds like this: "...while you were making love up there". But it seems to be not very exact.
Don't know what is more to say. :-( I'll HAVE to translate it... Somehow. I mean, to transfer this choice of words into Russian. I think I'll ask it on our local BBM forum, or in VK communities.
5) That fire and brimstone crowd?
Why do you think Ennis answers like this?
It's important to note that this sounds VERY STRANGE even in English. I suspect it's one of Annie's made-up expressions.
"...while you were making love up there" is direct enough. Could also say, "...while you were fooling around up there", but that doesn't necessarily have a sexual idea. How about, "...while you were screwing around up there"? I suppose you'll have to come up with something suitably Russian!