I think Ennis was making progress and we're given many tiny, subtle clues to this even before Ennis received the deceased postcard. I don't think they would have been able to jump right into living together no matter what. I do think an effort would be made to see each other more. Maybe some baby steps towards progress would have been made. I don't believe that Jack would have ever really been able to "quit" Ennis. I think his statement at the lake makes it clear that Jack understands himself well enough to know that he wouldn't be able to leave Ennis after 20 years. He really doesn't know how to quit him.
This is a great question! I went with an optimistic answer here and chose the "Ennis was making progress..." option. Well, because I think it's true. I think Ennis was making progress and we're given many tiny, subtle clues to this even before Ennis received the deceased postcard. I don't think they would have been able to jump right into living together no matter what. I do think an effort would be made to see each other more. Maybe some baby steps towards progress would have been made. I don't believe that Jack would have ever really been able to "quit" Ennis. I think his statement at the lake makes it clear that Jack understands himself well enough to know that he wouldn't be able to leave Ennis after 20 years. He really doesn't know how to quit him.
Merci brokeback dev !
You say: I'm not so optomistic that I think Ennis would change or come around someday. But for sure I dont think Jack could ever quit Ennis. The relationship would go on like it had for 20 years, but with fewer and fewer meetings. Also, there is the off chance that Randall and Jack would have moved up to Lightning Flat and whip the old ranch into shape as OMT mentioned to Ennis when Ennis went up to get Jack's ashes.
Either way Jack didnt know how to quit Ennis.
.......
And may I say or hope:
1- That Ennis was changing and did come around, since he went to see Jack's parents, etc.;
2- Jack would never quit Ennis, and Ennis too would and did not let go of Jack as we see that he hugs that shirt in his trailer as the end of the movie;
3- Since the relationship went on for 20 years, I think that more and more meetings would have occured, yes since the bond and understand were enriching at each meeting;
4- and, to me, Randall did not and would not have been accepted by Jack... on the long run !
Food for thought ?
Au revoir,
hugs!
This is very interesting to reconsider this question over a year following this post I made in this thread way-back-when. In thinking about this again, I still believe most of what I wrote back then.
I still stand by the idea that Ennis was making progress (at a snail's pace) in certain ways in terms of understanding and accepting his relationship with Jack. We see that, clearly, Jack's death was a shock strong enough to rattle Ennis into doing all sorts of things that he would have been too afraid to do prior to Jack's death (primarily driving all the way to Lightning Flat to meet Jack's parents... and even gathering his courage to call Lureen, etc.). I wonder if the lake-side fight alone was enough to rattle Ennis to the degree that he really would have tried harder to make things better with Jack.
I do think it's extremely significant that Ennis is the one who sent the final postcard. Clearly the thought of losing Jack is tremendously profound to Ennis. We see this in his reactions to the conversation by the lake when he begins to worry about a break-up and obviously we see what happens in the circumstance where he does lose Jack. So, maybe if Jack had lived he really would have tried harder. I think Jack's hints and not-so-subtle threats about breaking up during the argument really could have had a major impact on Ennis's behavior and determination to fix things.
One of the last things we hear Ennis saying to Jack is "I can't stand this anymore"... So, according to Ennis's own motto "if you can't fix it, you've got to stand it"... this seems to suggest that once you can't stand something anymore you do the opposite and try to fix it. There's no exit clause in his motto. If you can't stand something you still don't quit it.
As far as Jack goes, I think he's self-aware enough to know that he's not capable of breaking up with Ennis. I think that's why he adds the conditional "wish" to "I wish I knew how to quit you." I don't think he has the will power to resist Ennis and I think he knows that. If he had lived, I think he would have worked with Ennis to try to make things better. Like I said in my post a year ago, I think progress would have been in baby-steps. Mostly I think things would have stayed the same... at least in the short term.
But, again, I think the argument alone... and airing all the frustrations and some of the secrets... was enough to be a catalyst for some measure of change.
Merci buffymon !No I don´t think he did either, but there was clearly a bond between them and they must have been seing each other to some extent - just think of how how heartbroken Cassie gets and her line "Girls don´t fall in love with fun". If she has had time to fall in love, I think they must have been out a few times
Your saying about Ennis' action: And the first step towards that could be him breaking up with Cassie.
...
Buffymon: that surprises me, as if Ennis had a sexual relationship with Cassie, because I do not think that he did ! Do you ?
Au revoir,
hugs!
I think Ennis might have done some progress. As Vermont sunset pointed out to me during the trip to Wyoming Ennis statement to Jack during the "I did once" argumen "I can´t stand to lose anymore, Jack". And if he can´t stand it - he has to fix it, right? And the first step towards that could be him breaking up with Cassie.
Hunh, I always hear it as "I can't stand this no more, Jack." What do other people hear, or know from the screenplay?
I have always assumed that Ennis and Cassie had a sexual relationship.
You´re right, he says something along those lines. But the meaning is pretty much the same.
Hunh, I always hear it as "I can't stand this no more, Jack." What do other people hear, or know from the screenplay?
I have always assumed that Ennis and Cassie had a sexual relationship.
Did Ennis and Cassie know each other for years in the movie? For how many?
I never got the feeling they knew each other very well or were intimite with each other.
In the story the bottle does suggest that they had sex, but since we were never told in the movie that the bottle was from Cassie, I never made that connection. To me (in the movie) their relationship seems rather new and like Cassie never got much from Ennis - not love, not sex, not much of anything. Maybe it is the lack of that "Alma bitterness" on Cassie´s part that make me doubt that their relationship ever got to that point. If sex had been involved, I feel Cassie would have been much more bitter about Ennis dumping her out of the blue. When I watch the break up scene, Cassie to me seems sad, but not bitter. To me it feels like more she had a huge crush on Ennis and the things she had hoped for never came to be, and thats what she´s upset about.
Fran, you are the screen capture queen! :)
Merci brokeplex !
How instructive you are, like a professor ! Happy to read your post, and I am grateful too !!
I agree with you; however, I think that once Jack would have tried elsewhere, he would come back to the nest which is Ennis ??
How about that ?
Au revoir,
hugs!
Merci brokeplex !
Your post enlightens me too ! Ennis and Jack grew up both for punishment, do you know ?
You are giving me the proof that Jack as well as Ennis grew up in an islamic-type society !
You understand ?