BetterMost, Wyoming & Brokeback Mountain Forum
Brokeback Mountain: Our Community's Common Bond => Brokeback Mountain Open Forum => Topic started by: Aussie Chris on March 05, 2006, 05:40:35 am
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Ok folks, here I go with an attempt to put into words my thoughts and feelings for the Beyond Brokeback Mountain forum as a follow on from my “Legacy of Brokeback Mountain” (http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=56.0 (http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=56.0)) post from a couple of weeks ago. As I suggested in Legacy, I wanted to give this some time before I tried to put into words what I think is happening to me, or how it was possible that one film could make such a difference.
From the outset, this will not be light-hearted read. There are a couple of “heavy” paragraphs that I needed to write so that I could connect with the part of you that would otherwise rather hide behind the sofa than risk further hurt. But I promise, it will be worth it and I’ll look after you by the end. You also probably need to be in at least stage 3 in Phillip’s excellent BBM Stages of Grief & Acceptance (http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=59.0 (http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php?topic=59.0)) before you will be able to take this on. I consider myself in stage 5, but I happily restart the process from stage 1 every now and then just to make sure that I haven’t missed anything, or more importantly, to make sure I still can. The good news is that I can now jump to any stage whenever I want, and when you’re ready, you can too. *hug*
Still here? Ok let’s get into it.
Since Thursday (March 2) BBM has been in theatrical release in Australia for 6 weeks, which is also about the same number of times that I’ve seen it. Last night, after a two week hiatus, I decided to go back to the cinema to check on my progress, and also to check on how many people are still going to see it a month and a half into its release (still nearly sold out in a 4pm session :D). Btw, for all of you pirate-copy people out there, the cinema is really the best viewing method for BBM for the simple fact that you will otherwise miss the experience of several hundred people becoming silent, hardly even breathing, as they sit in stunned disbelief for the last 30 minutes as the tragedy unfolds. It’s really quite unsettling and isolating. So if you haven’t already done so, do yourself a favour and get into the cinema, at least once.
I’ve seen many posts from people who make an effort to capture what it is about BBM that can generate such gut wrenching emotions. I read these attempts and typically think “I know what they mean, but they just don’t seem to be getting how I feel”. So do I have a better idea on how to express it I hear you ask? Well I’ll give it a go. For 6 weeks now I have despaired over the thought that somehow I was responsible for Jack’s death. You see, when I watch BBM I take ownership for everything that happens. It is my love that soars in that first year up on that mountain. It is my fear and stupidity that makes me believe that what other people think is more important than my love for Jack. And it is my heartbreak that results from Jack having to look elsewhere to find what I failed to give him, but so desperately wanted to. So it's because of me that Jack gets killed. How did I go? Yes? No? Too much? Maybe. But I think you need strong words to describe these feelings to really do them justice.
Btw, that sneaky Ang Lee needs to accept some of this guilt. It is he who withholds so much from us about the depth of Ennis’ love for Jack until the end. When we first watch BBM we never see Ennis the way that Jack did, until the flashback shows us how he really felt. Coming off the mountain (pre-flashback) we see a lot of tension and aggression (the punch), but post-flashback we realise that it was really a beautiful and soulful relationship, not unrequited at all, and we rejoice in the flashback embrace. But damn it all to hell if we’re given just seconds to comprehend this before the arrival of the deceased-stamped postcard and the phone call to Jack’s wife confirms the terrible truth. And just in case anyone wasn’t devastated enough, or dared to hope that it might actually be a dream sequence, Ang then rip's out our hearts and stomp on them with the Jack's parents and the shirts-in-the-closet sequence. God damn you Ang!
Ok, if you're all still here then it's time for an emotional status check. How are you going? It’s about 24 hours since my last viewing and I’m writing this while listening to BBM Radio. Yep, still heartbroken and teary, unwilling to entertain a single thought that might lead to letting go of my love for Jack and Ennis, but maybe ready to lessen my grip on this sense of responsibility. And with that thought I no longer feel like there’s something wrong with me, in fact, I now see that there is something right with me. A part of me suspected this was the case after the first viewing, but I was so caught up in grief that there was no way I could express it.
So what is it that I think is right? I think it’s a simple as realizing that before BBM we had spent so much time lowering our expectations that we didn’t realise that we had actually stopped having them. You might think that was obvious enough, but there is more than that at work here and the result has been far more destructive. Most of us erect walls around our hearts to protect us from the evils of the world outside. Many even taken pride in it: no one’s going to hurt me while I’m on guard! Yeah well congratulations, you’ve also managed to turn your protective wall into a dam, and it’s been holding back all but you’re most superficial emotions so you never run the risk of ever being disappointed again! But then along comes BBM, and like a sledgehammer being wielded with great force, down comes any illusion that you had that you’re ok just the way you are (or were). And before you know what’s happening, you are caught up in the white water of emotions so powerful that you’re still bobbing around gasping for air and wondering what was happening.
So why does it feel so devastating, and why does it feel so new? Well the answers are: that beautiful and fertile heart of yours has grown barren while you kept it from nourishment; and it’s been like this for such a long time that you’ve actually forgotten what it feels like to feel? But don’t worry, you will recover from this. I'm absolutely certain of it. How do I know this? Well, what I can finally share with you is the realization that in all of this destruction, there also lies the seed of redemption that you are looking for. For you see, quite simply, it was you that wielded the hammer in the first place! You are the only one that had the strength to break down the wall, no one else could have done so. So it's easy to explain why some people don't have this reaction, even if you think they should, they are simply not ready, or not willing to do so. That's ok, that is their choice and we mustn't judge. But I did, and maybe you did too?
So friend, here what I have to say to you, right here, right now, you are being held. I have tears in my eyes and my heart swells, not because I am grieving, but because I am loving, and you can too. I am there with you right now, as you read this, holding you and singing softly to you with words you are finally home and you are loved. Close your eyes, and feel that I am there with you now. No really, trust me, close your eyes, and dream of the future and being happy...
“You know, it can be like this... just like this... always” - Jack Twist
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Sweet Jesus Chris....I just stumbled into this room this morning....and I am shaking...after reading your post. Do you KNOW how universally your words.....fit? It's quiet tears I'm shedding right now.....quiet and warm. Safe tears!!! Loving tears!!! I felt that love from you SOOO very deeply.....!!! I sat at your feet and listened to every word that came so lovingly tumbling out of your lips.
I suppose I shouldn't be posting here....but something drew me here this morning. In fact....I've NEVER been in this room before.
Thank you Chris....thank YOU!!! You've spoken to all of us....gay....straight...old....young....the true family of Humanity!!!
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I suppose I shouldn't be posting here....but something drew me here this morning.
Huh??? Why in the world would you think you shouldn't be posting here? Of course you should! :D
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Sweet Jesus Chris....I just stumbled into this room this morning....and I am shaking...after reading your post. Do you KNOW how universally your words.....fit? It's quiet tears I'm shedding right now.....quiet and warm. Safe tears!!! Loving tears!!! I felt that love from you SOOO very deeply.....!!! I sat at your feet and listened to every word that came so lovingly tumbling out of your lips.
I suppose I shouldn't be posting here....but something drew me here this morning. In fact....I've NEVER been in this room before.
Thank you Chris....thank YOU!!! You've spoken to all of us....gay....straight...old....young....the true family of Humanity!!!
Thanks Nancy, I've felt your love too. It glows like a comfortable camp-fire, and I send up a prayer of thanks for you being here.
And yes, everyone is welcome to share in this forum, and even if they weren't, everyone is welcome in the topics I start, always.
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Well my goodness, Chris, and Nancy, and Phillip, I guess I stumbled into this forum tonight too, also having left it alone as a "respecting privacy" sort of thing, but here you are, Chris, reiterating in such an expressive and loving way so many of the feelings and thoughts I've had myself during this BBM experience. I too have had Jack come to me in a dream, I too have felt my lifetime of "closeting" --
denying my true self for so long that I grew a protective (and life-deteriorating) crust that allowed me to deny and deny and deny my passions and longings. And this BBM has broken it all up and I feel as though I've shed at least a couple of my skins and I am tender and vulnerable and moist, and my heart is open as it hasn't been for decades and I've got no idea what will come next but am absolutely reveling in the experience, this totally unexpected thing that has happened through the medium of this film, and am overcome with the tears of gratitude for everyone associated with it, and I don't have to name them all -- you know who I mean. Those beloved two, who really became as "one" to me in the course of the last six weeks (9 viewings). Their memories lives in the photos I have stuck up in my apartment, and now on the desktop, and in the music. And it seems to go on and on and on . . . what more to say here, my dear ones with whom I can share these feelings, I love you all . . . Iris
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Well my goodness, Chris, and Nancy, and Phillip, I guess I stumbled into this forum tonight too, also having left it alone as a "respecting privacy" sort of thing, but here you are, Chris, reiterating in such an expressive and loving way so many of the feelings and thoughts I've had myself during this BBM experience....
Thanks for writing Iris. I'm glad you stopped by, and thanks for your kind words.
But really, it's only the "Safe Haven" forum that's meant to be for gay (or think they might be) members.
The "Now What..." forum is for everyone, and I welcome and value your contributions and opinions.
*hugs* and best wishes, Chris.
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Chris,
You're insight is truly beautiful and well-articulated. I've read your post over and over and you are so right-on-target. The sense of guilt was something I had not yet named in my own experience, but it's there and so obvious now that you've spoken about it. I've been preoccupied with judgement and have asked elsewhere if anyone else noticed the scales...There are scales in Alma & Monroe's kitchen and scales in the kitchen in the Twist house. I had thoughts of Alma judging Ennis' relationship with Jack and his performance as father, husband, and provider. This parallels the judgment transpiring in the Twist house, Jack being judged by his father and found lacking. Both Jack and Ennis being judged by Jack's mother and being loved and accepted for themselves - finding redemption, even. This ties in with a post from IMDB about the camera movement during the final lake scene, as if Jack is weighing his relationship with Ennis.
Thank you, thank you very much for sharing your thoughts and experience.
Lynne
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I suppose I shouldn't be posting here....but something drew me here this morning.
Huh??? Why in the world would you think you shouldn't be posting here? Of course you should! :D
Well.....looking back on that remark....I have NO idea why I said that!! ;) I think I was in some sort of 'floating place' after reading your beautiful post. But thanks for clarifying anyway Chris!!
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I've been preoccupied with judgement and have asked elsewhere if anyone else noticed the scales...There are scales in Alma & Monroe's kitchen and scales in the kitchen in the Twist house. I had thoughts of Alma judging Ennis' relationship with Jack and his performance as father, husband, and provider. This parallels the judgment transpiring in the Twist house, Jack being judged by his father and found lacking. Both Jack and Ennis being judged by Jack's mother and being loved and accepted for themselves - finding redemption, even. This ties in with a post from IMDB about the camera movement during the final lake scene, as if Jack is weighing his relationship with Ennis.
Hi there Lynne, thanks for stopping by, your timing is impeccable (I needed a boost)!
I doubt the true extent of how much symbolism that exists in BBM will ever be completely known. Every aspect of this film (to me) seems both significant and relevant, where every frame in every scene has been carefully crafted to make a certain point or to have a certain effect. Without a doubt, every complete scene is critical and the omition of any one of them would dramatically alter the viewer's interpretation. But within each scene, this care of craft is equally present with set dressing and camera placements. Have you ever noticed that in the first tent scene (before the sex) we see Jack make room for Ennis by moving to the foreground? We then see a shot of the moon (so some time passes), then we’re back inside the tent and the camera is aimed low to the empty spot where Jack was lying a few moments earlier. What does it mean? Well we are being shown that (in those intervening moments) Jack has inched over and next to Ennis before he takes his hand and... Ok I'll stop there, but the reason I've gone to the trouble of documenting this is so I could remind you, or if you didn't notice it before to bring it to your attention, a 1-second camera move used to show that the sex (maybe) wasn't as spontaneous as you might have thought.
So if you ask me if saw the kitchen-scales and pieced the symbolism together like you did the answer is no, not really. But did I get the impression that there was judgement being represented in these scenes, most definitely. Neither did I interpret the camera move in the argument scene beyond the artistic merit of it all, at least not until I read this on IMDB myself and thought: Oh Yeah that makes sense. But I think it goes a little too far (as some have suggested) that the focus changes in that scene are meant to represent Jack "distancing himself from Ennis" - I just thought that they were keeping the focus on the character that was speaking at the time! ::)
Once again, thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts - I relish every one of them and look forward to reading more from you on BetterMost!
Cheers, Chris
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Thanks, Chris, for your wonderful post. As others have stated, you analysis is spot on for me as well. I still don't completely understand the intense feelings I had after my first viewing of BBM but your explanations do provide some fantastic insight.
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Hey there, Chris...
I love talking about this movie, especially with the group here. I've been keeping a journal for several weeks now and think I have the beginnings of a thesis if I ever get motivated. I saw the movie again tonight (17th viewing). I assure you I do have a life outside of this; I've just decided to give up sleeping for awhile. For some reason, I am compelled to see it in the theatre 19 times...Jack and Ennis were 19 years old on Brokeback, their relationship lasted 19 years, I will turn 38 this year...I assure you I'm usually a reasonable person, but these aren't reasonable times.
I completely agree with you that there is so much symbolism and that every scene is vital in its own right. It's fascinating to me how the same is true of the short story - that with such sparse language, so much can be conveyed - the definition of poetry, right? Every word is integral. I've never had much interest in the story-to-screenplay process - usually I'm the type to be disappointed because novels are complex and screenplays pare down and simplify if not completely change the story. I cannot think of another case of a movie being on par (different, but just as important) as the original written word.
So tonight I did pay very close attention to tent scene 1 and I DID observe Jack making room for Ennis then moving closer...it was something I'd not noticed on my own, so thank you for sharing that observation with me. I do agree that the entire month together and their growing comaraderie, companionship leads to the physical intimacy. And I love the full moon cycle that is shown passing then. And again it's a full moon for the 'sending up a prayer of thanks' scene after the reunion. I was probably in a Shakespeare class (Romeo & Juliet?) when I first heard that lovers observing the same full moon is a symbol of constancy.
No one will ever convice me that Jack quit Ennis. I think he did have a physical relationship with Randall, but he loved Ennis until he died. And maybe that contributes to one of the themes - the settling for something less than what you really want because you don't think you can have it or that you do not deserve it. The camera move discussion on imdb did get off track with the business about focus and it being a decision point for Jack. Jack loved Ennis and comforted him, but nothing really changed.
So for one more bit of set trivia... :-) In the scene at the Twist house, did you notice that Ennis' hat is on a table upside down? He's bared his head for the meeting (respectful, revealing himself) but he's also come as a supplicant. He wants to be able to grant the wish about Jack's ashes. The hat is not in hand, but it's over to the side, brim up, available to be filled - by John Twist granting permission or by the acceptance and love Ennis found from Jack's mother.
This is a masterpiece.
'Sending up a prayer of thanks...' that this came into my life.
Peace,
Lynne
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My LORD Lynne....I am SO often 'blown away' by your thoughts. You have such a gift for conveying your emotions....your thoughts....your perceptions. It just amazes me each time I'm lucky enough to read your words. You make me dig sooo deeply down inside myself!! Each time I think I'm 'done' and have everything figured out....along you come and make me dig down even deeper.
Have I told you that I treasure you....Lynne? Brokeback and YOU..( and all my dear friends here... :)) .have somehow opened up my heart and soul. I will forever be thankful!! Our Brokeback Mountain was the first step. You've helped me along the rest of the way.
One more thing...you've helped me to balance those scales...Lynne.
Would you PLEASE run for president? WE NEED YA!!! ;D
(my feeble attempt at humor there...but...but....WOULD YA? PLZ? ;)
HUGSSSSSS.....Nancy
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OK EVERYBODY!!! GROUP HUG!!! GROUP HUG!!! :D
Nancy, said it all. Thanks Lynne.
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My LORD Lynne....I am SO often 'blown away' by your thoughts. You have such a gift for conveying your emotions....your thoughts....your perceptions. It just amazes me each time I'm lucky enough to read your words. You make me dig sooo deeply down inside myself!! Each time I think I'm 'done' and have everything figured out....along you come and make me dig down even deeper.
Have I told you that I treasure you....Lynne? Brokeback and YOU..( and all my dear friends here... :)) .have somehow opened up my heart and soul. I will forever be thankful!! Our Brokeback Mountain was the first step. You've helped me along the rest of the way.
One more thing...you've helped me to balance those scales...Lynne.
Would you PLEASE run for president? WE NEED YA!!! ;D
(my feeble attempt at humor there...but...but....WOULD YA? PLZ? ;)
HUGSSSSSS.....Nancy
(((((((((((((((((((Group Hug))))))))))))))))))) back at ya'll. <going for the Wyomingg speak ;-)>
Nancy - I hate to disappoint you, sweeitie, but here's my theory...we're never going to get 'done' with this while we still walk this earth. So I'm trying to pace myself to go with the flow!
You'll have to tell me more about those scales sometime, and why you felt out of balance before?. I truly want to know YOU.
However, I can say with a great deal of certainty that there are no red states who would want me for president so I would not be a good candidate.,
I'm too perverse. though I appreciate the sentiment. i don't want anyone looking for skeletons in THIS closet :-)...
For instance, after 9/11 Falwell or someone of his ilk made the statement that the 'liberals, feminists, gays, and the ACLU' were somehow responsible. And I read it and re-read it and I couldn't believe the audacity so I re-read it again. Then I decided pretty much on the spot. I am both a liberal and a feminist. I cannot do anything about my sexual orientation...but I can join the ACLU. So they had a check in the mail the next day. Very reactionary behavior.
No - I'd be a bust as president, but I think I'd make an excellent activist. This is part of my plans for 'After BrokeBacck' that I haven't listed yet so as not to overwhelm myself. I was raised Methodist...loved that Ennis didn't know what the "Pentecost' was and then Jack didn't know either, but manages to confuse it with 'Judgement Day' ... Could their innocence have been more evident??! Terrific and comic and tragic scene in just a few short sentences~!!! Go Annie.
OK..I really have to get up with those sheep now....'gnight everyone and thanks again for the moral support today.
Love,
Lynne
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Good evening Lynne....for some reason my "quote' thingee isn't working this evening so I'll just carry on....without it!!
Lynne...I could never EVER imagine the remainder of my life without 'our boys' entwined in the fabric. They are nestled so very peacefully inside my heart...warm....safe...and secure!! They weave themselves in deeper every day. Their rest is my peace!! Their love is my stanchion!!
I'm going to take some time....soon....to start adding to my own blog. I AM a little guilty of not exposing myself. I little hesitant...perhaps. I've felt so very raw and vulnerable the last few months. But the wounds are healing very nicely....and I feel ready to open up to ALL of you here....my newly acquired and treasured friends. And besides feeling vulnerable....I was always crying so hard I could barely gather my thoughts nor see the screen!!
And OH yes....the tragic, yet sweet, innocence of our 'boys' as Jack tried to explain Pentecost. So very very sweet....so naive....Annie is a rare gem!!
G'night dear friends....stay well!!
Nancy
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For those who have seen the film for the first time, as you'll come to see... even after six weeks you'll be sorting through a lot of feelings.
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Mostly, I'm being self-indulgent bumping this thread because I'm waxing nostalgic for those very earliest days here at BetterMost. I'm missing some of our charter members like BBMGrandma - If you're lurking, please come back!
Also, I was wondering if any newer folks noticed the themes of sin, judgment, forgiveness, redemption that I saw so clearly fairly early on.
I kept seeing scales everywhere -
There are scales in the butcher shop where Ennis is leaving the girls with Alma at work so he can help with the calving. He's judged and found lacking as both husband and father.
In Monoe and Alma's kitchen, there are scales when Alma confronts him with 'Jack Nasty.' Again weighed as a father and husband (man?), Ennis falls short.
But in the Twist kitchen, there are also kitchen scales - and here is the one place Ennis measures up. The only character (Ma Twist) who displays charity towards Ennis, reaches out to him to offer him comfort, and gives him the greatest gift - knowledge of Jack's unceasing devotion. It is in this third judgement that Ennis ultimately finds solace and redemption, I think.
Anyone else see this the way I do? or have a better take on it?
-Lynne
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Lynne, I've never noticed the scales! :D How amazing to be still learning new things after 11 months of daily study! I think your take on it is right on.
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That is very interesting, Lynne! I'll look for those!