Author Topic: Deliberate Classical References and another 'Jack, I swear' -- by CaseyCornelius  (Read 42896 times)

Offline Front-Ranger

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More about Heracles (Hercules) and Hylas is here.

Theocritus wrote:
"We are not the first mortals to see beauty in what is beautiful. No, even Amphitryon's bronze-hearted son, who defeated the savage Nemean lion, loved a boy—charming Hylas, whose hair hung down in curls. And like a father with a dear son he taught him all the things which had made him a mighty man, and famous."
"chewing gum and duct tape"

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Upon watching the movie again after a long break, I was impressed with the character of John Twist. He seemed to be a gay person himself who was criticising Ennis for not stepping up to the plate and being who he was, thereby supporting Jack, his son.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline CellarDweller

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Old Man Twist as gay?   I never got that reading.


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

Offline Sason

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Me neither

Düva pööp is a förce of natüre

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I know it sounds crazy...but just listen to what he says, and how he says it!
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline southendmd

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Offline Sason

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 :laugh:

Lee, nothing in what he says or how he says it indicates to me that he might be gay.

What do you mean?

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Well, first of all, he says, "I know where Brokeback Mountain is." I can expound on this if you like.

But later on in his talk, he tells about Jack's hopes and dreams that he and Ennis would move up to Lightning Flat and have a cow/calf operation there and a sweet life. He speaks with constrained intensity. Behind his words I sense an accusation: Ennis! Why couldn't you embrace your true nature and be with my son and be his partner. Also I sense an angry sadness that his son's hopes and dreams were unrealized. As a parent, I would have been angry at Ennis too, realizing that Ennis could have protected Jack from the hatred of the world. If Ennis had stepped up to the plate, Jack would have been happy and wouldn't have indulged in risky behavior.

Old Man Twist does say that Jack's ideas were "half-baked". I don't really see this as a condemnation but rather an acceptance that Jack had flaws and needed the complementary skills of Ennis, who could have planned everything out and executed it well.

I'm also thinking of a passage in the story where Ennis, meeting the elder Twists, thinks that he doesn't see much resemblance to Jack. This leads me to think that Twist pere never sired Jack. That doesn't mean he's straight or gay per se but it's another puzzle piece. I don't think any of these are new ideas, they've been bounced back and forth before.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Sason

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Well, I hear what  you're saying, Lee, but I don't agree with any of it.


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Offline morrobay

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I agree with Sason.  I heard nothing but contempt in his voice when he spoke of Jack and his idea about bringing Ennis to the ranch, and all his other half-baked ideas.  I think the actor's portrayal in the movie, his hard voice and cruel words about Jack bringing someone else to LF, demonstrated exactly how he felt about his son and his lifestyle.  Not to mention Mrs. Twist looked scared to death of the old man.  I heard no sadness in his voice about Jack's unrealized dreams.
"Do you mind if I smoke?"
"I don't care if you shoot up."