Author Topic: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects  (Read 13499 times)

Offline louisev

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BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« on: July 06, 2007, 05:50:30 pm »
It is no longer a rumor:  at least three BBM fan fiction book writers have received letters from the lawyers representing Simon and Schuster, the publishers of "Brokeback Mountain" requesting the complete withdrawal of their work from all internet sites and from all publication.  My own series of novels were the subject of a cease and desist letter in April 2007.  Since I was already contemplating the reworking of my series, which in its early form takes place after the end of Annie Proulx's story and which only peripherally touches the plot of her story, fashioning the unwritten parts into a murder back-plot, it became feasible for me to write a new novel with a gay theme and change the characters that I had borrowed.  I withdrew the site, and have been working hard, with Leslie as my editor/co-author, to 'convert' my books, and am pleased to say that part of the audience for the fan stories have taken well to the changes that make "Tales of Greenlea County" erotic novels with their own reason for being, and with, hopefully, a commercial career as gay erotic fiction.  I never had the intention of disrespecting the author's intent, nor to take ideas that did not belong to me - the inspiration I got from BBM had opened out a new avenue of fiction for me that I had only begun to explore with my previous erotic novel, "The Erotic Etudes."

But other stories, written as AU's that involve both the characters of Ennis and Jack, are not so reworkable, and have presented severe dilemmas for their writers, and the two I know of have chosen not to argue the matter.  One of these authors went silent after a cryptic announcement, but the other posted an announcement on his Livejournal before withdrawing his stories within the ten-day notice period:

http://no-reins.livejournal.com/13096.html

Lucian's entry in his blog references a site I had been referred to many months ago when I was first struggling with issues of copyright and plagiarism within the fandom, "Chilling Effects."

http://www.chillingeffects.org/fanfic/

However, another site has referenced BBM and fan fiction, and maintains that erotic fan fiction has its place as protected speech as a form of criticism and commentary, and should be protected under the law.  I find this point of view intriguing and may possibly prove to have some legal merit.

http://www.henryjenkins.org/2006/09/fan_fiction_as_critical_commen.html

However one feels about the 'rights' of fan fiction authors, the BBM fan community will be undeniably affected by the decision of the publishers of BBM to defend its rights by issuing letters, and undoubtedly, as they meet with no challenge to their stance, they will most likely issue more of them.  the Dave Cullen forum, www.davecullen.com, has issued a policy that prohibits open discussion of fan fiction and C & D due to legal concerns over copyright.  However, we at Bettermost do not believe that our site, nor our readers or members, should have any concern about the open discussion of copyright law and fan fiction, nor should anyone be discouraged from expressing an opinion about it.

The individual authors who have been affected by the C & D have chosen to refrain from comment beyond the statements I have referenced here.  I too have issued a comment on my own LJ about my decision to rewrite those of my fan fics that fall outside the realm of parody:

http://louisev.livejournal.com/225229.html

My intentions toward the authors of the book and screenplay of "Brokeback Mountain" were to do no harm, nor to benefit from their hard, original, inspiring work.  But neither do I believe that my own original work should be suppressed, and have been putting in the extra effort to make it into a form that puts the effort in a form that is not challengeable legally.  I suggest that who have devoted great effort to writing erotic fan fictions, to read and research, to decide upon your own goals as authors, and consider the risks and potential costs, before the fandom receives a wider ranging legal challenge.  I urge those of you who have found a new vocation in fiction writing, to consider writing your own original works, adapting what you learned in these writing exercises, and not let your voice be quelled because the route of fan fiction in this fandom may close.  And to feel free to have an open dialogue with other writers and readers here about the chilling effects now affecting all of us who love and still watch and read Brokeback Mountain.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


mvansand76

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2007, 06:24:06 pm »
It is no longer a rumor:  at least three BBM fan fiction book writers have received letters from the lawyers representing Simon and Schuster, the publishers of "Brokeback Mountain" requesting the complete withdrawal of their work from all internet sites and from all publication.  My own series of novels were the subject of a cease and desist letter in April 2007.  Since I was already contemplating the reworking of my series, which in its early form takes place after the end of Annie Proulx's story and which only peripherally touches the plot of her story, fashioning the unwritten parts into a murder back-plot, it became feasible for me to write a new novel with a gay theme and change the characters that I had borrowed.  I withdrew the site, and have been working hard, with Leslie as my editor/co-author, to 'convert' my books, and am pleased to say that part of the audience for the fan stories have taken well to the changes that make "Tales of Greenlea County" erotic novels with their own reason for being, and with, hopefully, a commercial career as gay erotic fiction.  I never had the intention of disrespecting the author's intent, nor to take ideas that did not belong to me - the inspiration I got from BBM had opened out a new avenue of fiction for me that I had only begun to explore with my previous erotic novel, "The Erotic Etudes."

But other stories, written as AU's that involve both the characters of Ennis and Jack, are not so reworkable, and have presented severe dilemmas for their writers, and the two I know of have chosen not to argue the matter.  One of these authors went silent after a cryptic announcement, but the other posted an announcement on his Livejournal before withdrawing his stories within the ten-day notice period:

http://no-reins.livejournal.com/13096.html

Lucian's entry in his blog references a site I had been referred to many months ago when I was first struggling with issues of copyright and plagiarism within the fandom, "Chilling Effects."

http://www.chillingeffects.org/fanfic/

However, another site has referenced BBM and fan fiction, and maintains that erotic fan fiction has its place as protected speech as a form of criticism and commentary, and should be protected under the law.  I find this point of view intriguing and may possibly prove to have some legal merit.

http://www.henryjenkins.org/2006/09/fan_fiction_as_critical_commen.html

However one feels about the 'rights' of fan fiction authors, the BBM fan community will be undeniably affected by the decision of the publishers of BBM to defend its rights by issuing letters, and undoubtedly, as they meet with no challenge to their stance, they will most likely issue more of them.  the Dave Cullen forum, www.davecullen.com, has issued a policy that prohibits open discussion of fan fiction and C & D due to legal concerns over copyright.  However, we at Bettermost do not believe that our site, nor our readers or members, should have any concern about the open discussion of copyright law and fan fiction, nor should anyone be discouraged from expressing an opinion about it.

The individual authors who have been affected by the C & D have chosen to refrain from comment beyond the statements I have referenced here.  I too have issued a comment on my own LJ about my decision to rewrite those of my fan fics that fall outside the realm of parody:

http://louisev.livejournal.com/225229.html

My intentions toward the authors of the book and screenplay of "Brokeback Mountain" were to do no harm, nor to benefit from their hard, original, inspiring work.  But neither do I believe that my own original work should be suppressed, and have been putting in the extra effort to make it into a form that puts the effort in a form that is not challengeable legally.  I suggest that who have devoted great effort to writing erotic fan fictions, to read and research, to decide upon your own goals as authors, and consider the risks and potential costs, before the fandom receives a wider ranging legal challenge.  I urge those of you who have found a new vocation in fiction writing, to consider writing your own original works, adapting what you learned in these writing exercises, and not let your voice be quelled because the route of fan fiction in this fandom may close.  And to feel free to have an open dialogue with other writers and readers here about the chilling effects now affecting all of us who love and still watch and read Brokeback Mountain.

Thank you for posting this, Louise. A real eye-opener and very worrying.

It's something to seriously consider when you start a new story. After my first AU story Right Where You Are I am now starting an AU!AU and have been thinking about changing the names, because really, the names is all they have in common with BBM and I don't want to run the risk of getting in the same situation where you have to withdraw your story from the Internet.

But it is interesting what no-reins wrote on her journal:

I can’t know either why S & S targeted my work and not any of the hundreds of others being written. We could speculate forever, but we still wouldn’t know.

Do you have any idea?

The http://www.chillingeffects.org/fanfic/ link is not working... do you know what happened?

Thanks again, Louise.... I am so sorry this happened to you but I appreciate that you are using your experience to warn other writers.

Mel

Offline louisev

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2007, 06:42:47 pm »
 
Why these and not others?  It could be that they had become interested in work that had attracted fan art.  I know in my own C & D letter it mentioned depictions of Heath Ledger from the movie and my first theory was that it was the fan art (which, ironically, I did not create, I just added it on my blog) that attracted attention, or the book length nature of it, or my comments on Bettermost (also quoted) which stated my intention to publish a reworked version.  I clarified in a phone call with the lawyer that my publishing plan was for a reworked version that involved a murder plot, and not anything in common with BBM, and it occurred to me at the time that perhaps there was some misinterpretation of what I was planning to want to publish.  The first author to withdraw work last fall had published a fanzine and the fan art had visible resemblances to scenes depicted by the actors in the BBM film.  This theory, regarding recognizable actors from the film as a possibly profile, may or may not hold water.  But I took the precaution of removing all fan art pictures and all announcements on Wranglers, and now that the search engines and caches are catching up, the LJSeek references are gradually dropping the last of them.  The art I am using with the reworked story is an original painting to which I have full rights, and the new character could not be mistaken for any BBM character. in book or movie.

“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline Lumière

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2007, 06:51:33 pm »
Interesting and sad.

With all these goings-on, I guess I'll have to move my E & E fanpics, they'll be gone from the LS gallery.

Too bad some authors are coming under fire.
I guess it is not enough that they are not writing for profit.

*sigh*


Offline RouxB

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2007, 08:31:45 pm »
Not much we can do about it so we may as well ride it as long as we can.

I better speed up on saving the stories I love.

 O0

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Offline louisev

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2007, 09:01:14 pm »
 
Try this link, maybe they reworked the fan fic link:

http://www.chillingeffects.org/copyright/
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline souxi

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2007, 07:03:26 am »
Not much we can do about it so we may as well ride it as long as we can.

I better speed up on saving the stories I love.

 O0

Yes me too. I just found this thread. I,ve been frantically saving stories this morning. I,m still thanking my lucky stars I got my copy of SN before it got taken down. What a bunch of killjoys these legal people are. >:(

Offline louisev

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2007, 07:55:38 am »
It could be that the owners of the copyright to BBM do not understand the mismatch between the actual experience of the fans in their desire to interact with the story through fan fiction, and the notion of protecting themselves commercially.  The audience for BBM fan fiction are those who have already invested heavily:  most BBM fans have multiple copies of the book, the Story to Screenplay piece, copies of the screenplay, many copies of the DVD, and have aired the film in theaters five, ten, sometimes fifty times, before turning to fan fiction - the only medium that remains both new and interactive (because unlike Star Trek - there are no possible sequels).  The iidea of commercial competition, of robbing the authors of potential revenue - is certainly absurd here.  I have read in press commentaries on fan fiction, that this genre actually generates a greater market for the original, and that it is sometimes welcomed by those being imitated, and if the goal were greater interest in the story - these should be welcomed. 

But until there is a sea change in the definition of Fair Use, at least in North America - the exclusive rights to derive the work remains with the holders of the copyright.  As an author, this comforts me.  It means that when and if my writing gets the attention of a wider audience, I have protection against someone who might use the idea to make a film of it, taking the story and running with it and affording me no credit and no recourse.  But on the other hand, laws in some European countries are far more restrictive, having no clause or provision for critical commentary, parody, or other 'fair use' provisions that exist in American laws, and this may be evidence of a future narrowing of the definition of 'fair use.'

As it stands now, those who have the gold - the successful, famous authors and screenwriters and filmmakers - will always be able to call the bluff of a penniless fan fiction writer who does not have $100,000 to lose by challenging a multinational media firm and losing on an unfavorable interpretation of Fair Use.  We are not on equal ground - fan authors are not commercial money making publishing houses - they do not have well heeled New York lawyers.  We may never have them.  But we will have the long lasting memory that what inspired some of our most heartfelt writing inspiration, was dampened in its expression by those who have already benefitted greatly from our enthusiasm, and who will continue to benefit from it.


“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


yb

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2007, 08:02:24 am »
From Lucian's announcement, he sounded like he's planning on 'publishing' his story, would this be the trigger point to the lawyers?  The first one had published her story as a fanzine, then you (a misunderstanding of your intention) and Lucian's.  It seems like 'publish' is the word that leads to this action.

Do you mean DC has now imposed a regulation not to discuss the fanfics even in the designated thread?  I've deleted my account recently so I don't know what has been going on over there. 


Offline Penthesilea

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2007, 08:33:36 am »
I remember my reaction when I first heard of Fanfiction. Before BBM, I had no idea that something like this exists, let alone what it means.

One of my first thoughts was: this can't be legal! And for my personal sensation (coming from one of those European countries with stricer laws than the US) it is rightfully illegal.
Speaking especially of BBM here: I read FF, I enjoy it and I even write it (only to a very small intent). I have grown very fond of some FF stories.

But: my personal sense of justice still tells me it's not legal what we do. And apart from the legal aspects, I am even not sure what I think of the moral aspects. But this is not the topic here, it's only about the legal aspects and we should try to be level-headed on this topic.

The characters do not belong to us. They belong to Annie Proulx in the first place, and to Ossana/McMurtry and the publishers . And if one of the owners of the story (respectively their legal representatives) demands to withdraw a FF, they have every right to do so. It's nothing to fret about. We can regret it, we can feel sorry for the author and sad when a story is no longer available. But my peronal feeling is that we have no right to be angy about it.
I think every author of FF should be aware that s/he writes on the risk of being told to withdrawl the story. I think we should be aware that what we do is not legal.

injest

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2007, 09:07:36 am »
Thank you Pen! I agree completely....it has been a year that we have happily enjoyed our writings and discussions. The sites themselves have recieved no word from the copyright owners so no need to panic over it. Enjoy the stories and if you get a notice...well, that is the risk you took!  ;)

Offline souxi

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2007, 09:07:45 am »
So what about those who write RPS then? Does this apply to them? Authors like Mantra(Lovehurts4ever) write a lot of RPS. I hope this doesn,t mean she has to take any of it down. She always makes clear that none of the events she describe actually happen etc, but is that enough? Her journal is locked now to friends only so maybe she,ll be ok. I hope so.
And what about all the other fanfic out there? There are loads and loads of stories. Have they ALL got to come down?
I appreciate what the legal people are saying but I still think they are a bunch of miseries, trying to spoil our reading enjoyment. >:( >:(

injest

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2007, 09:16:08 am »
I don't think so. There has been no blanket ban...and I think Livejournal would let ya'll know if there was.

I would be interested to know if these accounts that ARE being targeted had paypal links on them?? That may be what triggered the letters...

Louise do you have a paypal link on your site?

Offline louisev

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2007, 09:29:08 am »
I remember my reaction when I first heard of Fanfiction. Before BBM, I had no idea that something like this exists, let alone what it means.

One of my first thoughts was: this can't be legal! And for my personal sensation (coming from one of those European countries with stricer laws than the US) it is rightfully illegal.
Speaking especially of BBM here: I read FF, I enjoy it and I even write it (only to a very small intent). I have grown very fond of some FF stories.

But: my personal sense of justice still tells me it's not legal what we do. And apart from the legal aspects, I am even not sure what I think of the moral aspects. But this is not the topic here, it's only about the legal aspects and we should try to be level-headed on this topic.

The characters do not belong to us. They belong to Annie Proulx in the first place, and to Ossana/McMurtry and the publishers . And if one of the owners of the story (respectively their legal representatives) demands to withdraw a FF, they have every right to do so. It's nothing to fret about. We can regret it, we can feel sorry for the author and sad when a story is no longer available. But my peronal feeling is that we have no right to be angy about it.
I think every author of FF should be aware that s/he writes on the risk of being told to withdrawl the story. I think we should be aware that what we do is not legal.

actually it is quite rightful to write whatever you like, about whatever you like, including making up new stories about characters created by other people.  And in the US, Britain, and many other countries you can quote other created stories, you can write parodies of them that are recognizable comments on the original, comment on them directly, and criticize them.  What can not be done is to profit from any derivative use that is outside a vague area described in the clause 'Fair Use.'  You cannot charge for these creations nor print them and benefit in any way.  Copyright concerns only to a limited extent, the ownership of a creation: it deals with the benefit derived from it to the person who owns it.  Which is why copyrights expire:  the right of reproduction and sale of copies of a creation are held by the person who created it or the person they assign it to - for a period of time which is deemed its commercial life, and for 50 years beyond. Then it comes into the public domain unless the copyright is assigned to and renewed by another party to whom rights devolve.

Therefore the fair use of something that is 5% owned by Annie Proulx and the other copyright interests within Brokeback Mountain's derivative products, and 95% written by me, is not wholly owned by Annie Proulx.  Removing that 5% removes any claim to it, and that is what I did.  Using 5% of Brokeback Mountain to create a fan fiction which is a completely original in its plot, is arguably deemed 'fair use' for the transformative purpose of a tribute commentary, but that has not been fully tested legally and is in a grey area.  I chose to remove the grey area test, as, it would seem, are many others.  It is the path of least resistance.  It does not mean that fan fiction is illegal - it means that it is still in the grey area of Fair Use and may or may not withstand legal scrutiny.

“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline louisev

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #14 on: July 07, 2007, 09:36:33 am »
So what about those who write RPS then? Does this apply to them? Authors like Mantra(Lovehurts4ever) write a lot of RPS. I hope this doesn,t mean she has to take any of it down. She always makes clear that none of the events she describe actually happen etc, but is that enough? Her journal is locked now to friends only so maybe she,ll be ok. I hope so.
And what about all the other fanfic out there? There are loads and loads of stories. Have they ALL got to come down?
I appreciate what the legal people are saying but I still think they are a bunch of miseries, trying to spoil our reading enjoyment. >:( >:(


RPS is another whole ball of wax.  RPS represents a truly risky venture in that a real person depicted as themselves in a fictional situation, if they object to the story being written about them, may choose to seek redress for defamation of character, and/or invasion of privacy.  It has nothing to do with copyright - it has to do with the right of individuals to not have others write things about them that are untrue or which they or others may find inflammatory, offensive, or harmful to their reputation.  Public figures, to some extent, are less entitled since they have public lives and their lives are to some extent, entitled to scrutiny as matters of public interest - however, that does not extend to speculating about or writing detailed stories about their sex lives.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline Penthesilea

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2007, 02:31:41 pm »
that is outside a vague area described in the clause 'Fair Use.' 
...
It does not mean that fan fiction is illegal - it means that it is still in the grey area of Fair Use and may or may not withstand legal scrutiny.


Regarding the demand of copyright owners to take a fanfiction down it has only theoretical meaning if it is outright illegal or in "some vague leagal grey zone", meaning it can be legal or as well can be not. As long as you don't have the monetary and judical possibilities to fathom the grey zone (or as long as the jurisdication is not further clarified) you know you write at the risk of having to take your story down.

And if it is solid/valid in a legal sense to rely on "Fair use" in the case if fanfiction - well, not even jurists are sure about it, how should we be able to make a definitive statement about it? I think we aren't and therefore have to accept that the people who created the characters/hold the rights can claim their rights on them whenever they want.


Quote
Therefore the fair use of something that is 5% owned by Annie Proulx and the other copyright interests within Brokeback Mountain's derivative products, and 95% written by me, is not wholly owned by Annie Proulx.  Removing that 5% removes any claim to it, and that is what I did.  Using 5% of Brokeback Mountain to create a fan fiction which is a completely original in its plot, is arguably deemed 'fair use' for the transformative purpose of a tribute commentary, but that has not been fully tested legally and is in a grey area.  I chose to remove the grey area test, as, it would seem, are many others.  It is the path of least resistance. 


I didn't have your story in mind, since you remove any references to BBM and therefore should be home and dry.



Let me explain it with another example: A person owns a property of land outside town and doesn't use it. Sometimes people passing through camp on the land and the youth of the town uses it for nightly gatherings. As long as the owner doesn't say anything, it's fine. But at the very moment he forbids anyone to camp there of have partys there, they have to follow his demand. He can put up a sign, he can put a fence around the land - whatever he wants. It does not matter whether the other people's use does harm to his property or not. Maybe they were even improving the value of the property by weeding (for the sake of the discussion, lol). It simply does not matter - if the owner demands other people to stay clear off his land people have to do so. He can also demand only two or three people to stay clear off his property, it's his right.

My peronal sense for justice tells me it's the same with fanfiction: the property are the characters. Because we certainly do not hold any rights on them. We can use them with the motto: no complaint, no redress. But at our own risk.

Offline louisev

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2007, 03:39:19 pm »
This is largely true, Chrissi.  I wrote my story on the basis that with its lack of profit motive, it would not hit the radar.  One of the Fair Use tests (there are four) is commercial profitability or infringing upon the commerical viability of the original.  There is no commercial threat, and that is one of the tests.  Amount of copying or borrowing is another test, and that one is harder to quantify, and is fiercely argued in some of the case law.  The third Fair use test is 'intent' - and intent in the case of fan fiction, it may be argued, is commentary and criticism on the original work.  a tribute, which is what almost all fan fiction is, a tribute to the original which is cited as 'canon' is a tribute commentary of the fan fic writer's appreciation for the original work, an appreciation which causes them to extend the experience.  It is this test that is most argued.  Parody as a fair use is well established, and so is criticism.  But 'commentary' is a huge grey area, and one on which the legality and viability of fan fiction lives or dies.

“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline louisev

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2007, 03:47:31 pm »
In summary, from Chillingeffects.org, here is the relevant section concerning the Fair Use doctrine:


Copyright and Fair Use

When a copyright holder sues a user of the work for infringment, the user may argue in defense that the use was not infringement but "fair use." Under the fair use doctrine, it is not an infringement to use the copyrighted works of another in some circumstances, such as for commentary, criticism, news reporting, or educational use. The defense generally depends on a case-by-case judgment of the facts.

Fair use is codified at Section 107 of the Copyright Act, which gives a non-exclusive set of four factors courts will consider in deciding whether a use is fair or not. These factors are

   1. the purpose and character of the use,
   2. the nature of the copyrighted work,
   3. the amount and substantiality of the portion used, and
   4. the effect of the use on the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.

Of course, even with these factors, it is problematic and often unyielding to try to predict what uses a court will deem fair.


The case law is often quite unpredictable, and even contradictory about how it interprets these four factors.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Marge_Innavera

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2007, 11:05:00 am »
the Dave Cullen forum, www.davecullen.com, has issued a policy that prohibits open discussion of fan fiction and C & D due to legal concerns over copyright.  However, we at Bettermost do not believe that our site, nor our readers or members, should have any concern about the open discussion of copyright law and fan fiction, nor should anyone be discouraged from expressing an opinion about it.

When was this policy issued? The Daily Sheet publishes a review or feature about fanfiction weekly and in 17 months on that forum I've never heard such a policy mentioned.

It might also be worth mentioning that if S&S wanted to shut down all BBM fanfiction, they wouldn't be spending so much time contacting individual authors. A few words to LiveJournal and fanfiction.net and most of it would disappear within a week.

Offline louisev

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2007, 11:27:15 am »
When was this policy issued? The Daily Sheet publishes a review or feature about fanfiction weekly and in 17 months on that forum I've never heard such a policy mentioned.

It might also be worth mentioning that if S&S wanted to shut down all BBM fanfiction, they wouldn't be spending so much time contacting individual authors. A few words to LiveJournal and fanfiction.net and most of it would disappear within a week.

I saw a message from LawGoddess over the weekend.  The policy is to forbid discussion of Cease and Desist orders and came from Dave.  And my C & D was sent to me and to Sixapart, the corporation that owns Livejournal.  According to the provisions of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, the copyright holder must notify the perceived infringer (the individual LJ account holders).  If it receives a complaint, Livejournal simply passes it on anonymously and asks for a statement from the LJ user asking if they have violated any of the listed provisions.  It is then that the DCMA 'Safe Harbor' provision kicks in.  That is, it is between the parties in dispute (copyright holder making the complaint) and the LJ account holder, to resolve it between them.  If the LJ account holder disputes the claim, then it is between those two parties to duke it out. If the LJ account holder does not dispute the claim, he is then required to delete the pages or materials, or face account suspension.

According to its own policies, LJ does NOT delete anything from account holders' sites, and does not enter copyright disputes: it simply locks access if there is a violation of its policies or evidence of a violation of its policies, such as admission of copying, proof of copying, or of copyright infringement.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Marge_Innavera

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2007, 09:35:42 am »

According to its own policies, LJ does NOT delete anything from account holders' sites, and does not enter copyright disputes: it simply locks access if there is a violation of its policies or evidence of a violation of its policies, such as admission of copying, proof of copying, or of copyright infringement.

LJ would not risk a lawsuit if it came down to dollars and cents, and I'm sure everyone know that. If S&S or anyone else with the clout decides that these are copyright violations, they'd have to be as loony as Emperor Norton to risk losing their shirts simply for the satisfaction of being intransigent about policy.

Offline louisev

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2007, 10:31:28 am »
LJ is not the content owner.  You may wish to familiarize yourself with the DCMA statements made by Livejournal.  Once they have fulfilled their obligations under DCMA and advised the disputing parties, they are only obligated to do as the DCMA requires them to do. 

www.livejournal.com

“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2007, 05:08:35 pm »
I see a potential way around this problem (and Lord, I hope I'm not opening another legal can of worms here). But it seems to me that fanfic writers and readers could go off-line in their pursuits--literally, taking their work off the Internet and transposing it onto good old-fashioned paper with good old-fashioned ink. The resulting work could be shared, without monetary profit, via mail or through actual physical meetings. A kind of fanfic samizdat culture, if you will, could result. As long as nothing is actually being published commercially, and no one is making any money off of it, I don't see how it would me much of a problem to the copyright holders (or even, for that matter, how they would even come to know of it).

Offline louisev

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2007, 07:28:12 pm »
off the net, certainly, but putting things in print is the most costly and the hardest to distribute.

the real solution to the problem of the big grey area of untested intellectual property law for fan fiction is as Henry Jenkins proposes in his blog, a landmark case that puts fan fiction against the four tests of copyright in order to put into law the 21st century art forms of cultural participation, and make it officially a class of 'commentary/criticism' because the perceived notion that the owner of a property has the exclusive right to dictate all use EXCEPT derogatory parody and all forms of academic comment and criticism, makes tribute fan fiction and cultural participation of a non commercial nature a truly paradoxical condition that was not intended as part of the copyright act.

“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline ifyoucantfixit

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2007, 08:27:14 pm »


   The legal entities, are creating a kind of legal gestapo!  The other evening I received an e-mail, from someone asking for my archived records of the Laramie Saga.  I dont, and didnt know them from Adam .  I simply reported back to them, that I have copied them to cds.  I no longer have the entire tome on my
computer.  I was rather leery of having any connection with a total stranger about a storyline which I knew had been given warnings about its continued distribution.  I feel bad for the person, if they were legitimate.  However I felt I should also protect myself, from any further complicency with any legal issues that may or may not have transpired.  I am ashamed to say.  I was afraid.  Probably with no reasons.  But the truth is, the truth..



     Beautiful mind

Marge_Innavera

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2007, 08:00:08 am »
I see a potential way around this problem (and Lord, I hope I'm not opening another legal can of worms here). But it seems to me that fanfic writers and readers could go off-line in their pursuits--literally, taking their work off the Internet and transposing it onto good old-fashioned paper with good old-fashioned ink. The resulting work could be shared, without monetary profit, via mail or through actual physical meetings. A kind of fanfic samizdat culture, if you will, could result. As long as nothing is actually being published commercially, and no one is making any money off of it, I don't see how it would me much of a problem to the copyright holders (or even, for that matter, how they would even come to know of it).

That could certainly be an option, with the biggest challenge being communication. That is, (1) people knowing about your work and (2) exchanging addresses. #2 isn't always a problem but people are sometimes hesitant to give out home addresses to people they don't know well.

Printing is another challenge, although libraries can be an economical choice. Printers vary widely on how good a buy you can get on ink, but none of it's cheap.

Marge_Innavera

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2007, 08:02:47 am »
I saw a message from LawGoddess over the weekend.  The policy is to forbid discussion of Cease and Desist orders and came from Dave. 

Sorry, I misunderstood your post; I thought you were claiming there was a ban on discussing fanfiction. The message specifically mentioned the copyright issues.

Offline louisev

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2007, 09:37:42 am »
right Marge,

That is the topic of this thread:  the discussion of copyright issues.  Discussion is allowed here - it is not allowed on Davecullen.com.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline souxi

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #28 on: July 13, 2007, 01:29:41 am »
Every time I click on this link for this story I get a message. Does this mean that this story has had to be taken down? I know she wrote an awful lot of stuff about Heath, most of it extreemly graphic.

http://niims.livejournal.com/25825.html

yb

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #29 on: July 13, 2007, 01:36:10 am »
Every time I click on this link for this story I get a message. Does this mean that this story has had to be taken down? I know she wrote an awful lot of stuff about Heath, most of it extreemly graphic.

http://niims.livejournal.com/25825.html

souxi

niims has locked her journal.  You'll have to ask her to friend you to access it.

Offline souxi

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #30 on: July 13, 2007, 07:56:43 am »
souxi

niims has locked her journal.  You'll have to ask her to friend you to access it.


Thanks for that yb, but when I click on that link it declines to show the web page so I couldnt, do it if I wanted too. Thanks anyway. It doesn,t really matter tbh. There is so much BBM fan fic out there I get kind of overwhelmed with it all lo. I,ve got all the stuff I really want saved anyway. And yes Leslie that does include ALBFS. I was reading it again the other day and I got to the bit where they bought their rings at the craft fair. *sigh*.

Offline louisev

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Re: BBM Fan Fiction Feels the Chilling Effects
« Reply #31 on: July 13, 2007, 10:01:43 am »
Every time I click on this link for this story I get a message. Does this mean that this story has had to be taken down? I know she wrote an awful lot of stuff about Heath, most of it extreemly graphic.

http://niims.livejournal.com/25825.html

That is a message you get when the security settings on the LJ has been changed.  I believe niims is one of the fanfic authors who have friends-locked their journal.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”