Author Topic: Hey, non-Americans  (Read 10383 times)

Offline sparkle_motion

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Hey, non-Americans
« on: May 02, 2006, 04:16:04 pm »
Hey, guys. I'm curious, is "intelligent design" taught in schools in other countries?
« Last Edit: May 03, 2006, 02:02:27 am by Will-ABC »
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Offline Chanterais

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Re: Hey, non-americans.
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2006, 04:23:43 pm »
You rang?

No, not in the high school I went to in Ontario.  Can't speak for those nutsos out in Aberta. ;D

Offline Becky

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Re: Hey, non-americans.
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2006, 04:37:00 pm »
This must make me sound really thick, but what is "intellegent design"? I have never heard that phrase before, maybe we call it something different in the UK.
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Offline henrypie

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Re: Hey, non-americans.
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2006, 04:40:15 pm »
Oy, I'm embarrassed.

Offline FuzzyChanny

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Re: Hey, non-americans.
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2006, 04:42:10 pm »
This must make me sound really thick, but what is "intellegent design"? I have never heard that phrase before, maybe we call it something different in the UK.

Nah, Bex, so with you on that. "Intelligent Design"?
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Offline nic

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Re: Hey, non-americans.
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2006, 04:50:01 pm »
I think it's the opposite of evolution, i.e.  that the universe was created by a designer (God). 

I don't recall it being taught in the UK when I was at school  a while ago now. Being a physicist I find the idea pretty atrocious, unless intelligent design could be translated to the laws of physics- which are inherently intelligent as they are the very basis of existence of us & anything that could be said to exist. 

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Offline MaineWriter

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Re: Hey, non-americans.
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2006, 04:52:25 pm »
Hey, guys. I'm curious, is "intelligent design" taught in schools in other countries?

How many schools is it taught in in this country? Not the schools my children attend, I can assure you.

This stupid concept (I refuse to type the name) just needs to go away.
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Offline JennyC

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Re: Hey, non-americans.
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2006, 04:55:01 pm »
Not in China, of course ;D.

Offline FuzzyChanny

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Re: Hey, non-americans.
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2006, 05:00:19 pm »
I think it's the opposite of evolution, i.e.  that the universe was created by a designer (God). 

I don't recall it being taught in the UK when I was at school  a while ago now. Being a physicist I find the idea pretty atrocious, unless intelligent design could be translated to the laws of physics- which are inherently intelligent as they are the very basis of existence of us & anything that could be said to exist. 

nic

Not neccesarily. I've seen the link between Physics and the "stories of God".

Leslie, you obviously understand what "intelligent design" means. Please, would you be willing to explain it?
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Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Hey, non-americans.
« Reply #9 on: May 02, 2006, 05:01:36 pm »
Quote
Hey, guys. I'm curious, is "intelligent design" taught in schools in other countries?

Germany here. And a big fat NO as answer. Luckily not.
I learned about Creationism when I was confronted whith fundamentalistic Christians for the first time in my life. Thast was 2 years ago. I had heard about it before, but didn't give a second thought about it, because it's very uncommon here. Only a few weirdos talk about it.
But unluckily, one of those fundamentalist Christians (they are very rare in Germany) became manager from our local kindergarten. I've  had some heavy arguments with that woman since then.


« Last Edit: May 02, 2006, 05:43:51 pm by Penthesilea »

Offline MaineWriter

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Re: Hey, non-americans.
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2006, 05:13:38 pm »
Quote
Leslie, you obviously understand what "intelligent design" means. Please, would you be willing to explain it?

I'll give you this from Wikipedia:

Intelligent design (ID) is the concept that "certain features of the universe and of living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection."[1] Its leading proponents, all of whom are affiliated with the Discovery Institute[2], say that intelligent design is a scientific theory that stands on equal footing with, or is superior to, current scientific theories regarding the origin of life.[3]

An overwhelming majority[4] of the scientific community views intelligent design not as a valid scientific theory but as pseudoscience[5] or junk science.[6] The U.S. National Academy of Sciences has stated that intelligent design "and other claims of supernatural intervention in the origin of life" are not science because they cannot be tested by experiment, do not generate any predictions and propose no new hypotheses of their own.[7]

A United States federal court recently ruled that a public school district requirement for science classes to teach that intelligent design is an alternative to evolution was a violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution. In Kitzmiller v. Dover Area School District (2005), United States District Judge John E. Jones III also ruled that intelligent design is not science and is essentially religious in nature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design
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Offline FuzzyChanny

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Re: Hey, non-americans.
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2006, 05:16:18 pm »
Thank you :)
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Offline opinionista

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Re: Hey, non-americans.
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2006, 05:16:41 pm »
Since I didn't know what it meant I googled it. Here it is. I doubt it's thought here in Roman Catholic Spain, but I'll ask my friends. I live here but I'm not from here.


http://www.intelligentdesignnetwork.org/
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Offline Becky

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Re: Hey, non-americans.
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2006, 05:29:59 pm »
As you can probably guess from mine and Chan's replies it is not taught in either UK or South African schools. And it definitely wasn't in my mum's day cause I asked her what it was and she didn't have a clue. But from what Leslie has described it as I think it sounds a rather stupid idea in the first place.
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Re: Hey, non-americans.
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2006, 05:39:14 pm »
Here in Newfoundland & Labrador it's not taught. I dunno about the rest of Canada though.

Offline Lumière

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Re: Hey, non-americans.
« Reply #15 on: May 02, 2006, 05:47:35 pm »
You rang?

No, not in the high school I went to in Ontario.  Can't speak for those nutsos out in Aberta. ;D

Hey, nutsos like myself in Alberta could take offense to that... :P
Don't think they teach that in HS out here either ...  :)


Offline isabelle

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Re: Hey, non-americans.
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2006, 05:58:22 pm »
NO, no intelligent design ever talked about in France. But then we still have separation between the State and the Church, and I hope it stays this way.
Even in the private (understand "catholic" here) schools, they have to follow national curriculum, so no ID.
I thought this ID thing had been beaten in Congress anyway in the USA, and that it was out of the question to teach it in schools??
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Offline Casey Cornelius

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Re: Hey, non-americans.
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2006, 06:32:40 pm »
Lucise:

Ditto -- as a fellow Albertan, Calgarian nutso, I also take offense at that appelation, Chanterais.

Just kidding !!   We Albertans certainly have a reputation don't we?
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Offline Sheriff Roland

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Re: Hey, non-americans.
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2006, 08:31:48 pm »
Ontario dumping it's two cents worth here.

It seems to me, that outside of the fundamentalist states in parts of the USA, this is a non issue, regarded with little respect, and mostly unheard of in pretty much the entire world. I can't imagine that it will develop into anything more than what it is right now, specially since, by all indications, the right is quickly losing it's grip on it's influence on americans, and may not be considered seriously by those citizens for what may turn out to be quite a few decades! - Hey, I can dream, can't I? Hunh?!?!!
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Offline sparkle_motion

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Re: Hey, non-americans.
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2006, 09:24:02 pm »
Hey, guys, thanks for weighing in. I'm sorry there was confusion over the meaning!

Oy, I'm embarrassed.

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Offline Chanterais

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Re: Hey, non-americans.
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2006, 09:35:05 pm »
Lucise:

Ditto -- as a fellow Albertan, Calgarian nutso, I also take offense at that appelation, Chanterais.

No indeed, Alberta hasn't cornered the market on nutsos.  Ontarians have their own special brand of insanity.  To wit: eight dead bikers in trunks.  I'll say no more.

I'm with Ro on this.  I think it's an interesting little blip on the American cultural landcape, but I don't think it's in any danger of becoming the dominant view.  I think the vast majority of Americans, though they believe in God, also understand that there are appropriate venues for certain debates and beliefs.  Just as most Americans agree that public schools are not the place for prayer, so they understand that that science class is not the place for exploring the idea of intelligent design.

I mean, I think the question about the presence and role of a higher being in the universe is incredibly important and worth examining (and I say that as a confirmed atheist), but school science classes are not the right forum for that discussion.  Science, as a discipline, is based on a very specific method whereby theories must be able to be disproved.  The existence of an intelligent creator simply cannot be disproved, and therefore it's not a legitimate scientific theory.  Period.  It's an important question, but it ain't science.

That said, I bet a great science teacher could really use the concept of intelligent design to help kids understand the scientific method, and to better realize how the acceptance of the Big Bang theory is based on educated consensus rather than solid, unimpeachable facts. 

I will now get off my soapbox and go soak my head.

Offline Aussie Chris

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Re: Hey, non-americans.
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2006, 11:49:22 pm »
No, not taught in Australia.  We have a religion-based political party here called "family first" that raised the subject last year, but it thankfully never made it passed a discussion.  Religious groups over here don't have the political clout that they do in the U.S.  I guess we're also a little too laid back for that sort of nonsense anyway.
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Offline starboardlight

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Re: Hey, non-americans.
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2006, 01:12:48 am »
a political background on this.

"Intelligent Design" is obviously a new name to the old "creationism" theory, and is currently purely American idea. It came into being when creationism was ruled unconstitutional. The fundamental Christians then repackaged it with a new brand name. By speaking about creation in terms that are non-religion specific (they don't use the word God anywhere) they hoped to be able to by pass the separation of church and state. Since it's not a idea that push any church or religion, it doesn't challenge the church and state line. That's their thinking anyway. Of course most people recognize it for what it is. An attempt to put creationism back into the American education system.
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Offline henrypie

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Re: Hey, non-americans.
« Reply #23 on: May 03, 2006, 02:10:27 am »
a political background on this.

"Intelligent Design" is obviously a new name to the old "creationism" theory, and is currently purely American idea. It came into being when creationism was ruled unconstitutional. The fundamental Christians then repackaged it with a new brand name.

Exactly, Starbie.

My embarrassment is that this is yet another issue that fearful, smallminded people in my country have thunk up.

Offline Ellemeno

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Re: Hey, non-Americans
« Reply #24 on: May 03, 2006, 06:08:31 am »
Somehow this topic title is in my head to the tune of David Bowie's "Young Americans."

"Non-Americans, non-Americans, they were the non-Americans.  All night, they were the non-Americans,"

Offline Kelda

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Re: Hey, non-Americans
« Reply #25 on: May 03, 2006, 08:24:23 am »
Yep, not taught in Scottish schools either (England and Scotland have different examinations so thought I'd just back up becky...seems to be a UK wide thing or basically world wide apart from US!!)
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Offline henrypie

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Re: Hey, non-Americans
« Reply #26 on: May 03, 2006, 11:56:40 am »
I fear it's more than a "blip."  It's in exactly the same category, in my mind, as the ballot measures on gay marriage: right-wing tactics that force the fearful to vote for what comforts them.

Offline reannawrites

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Re: Hey, non-Americans
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2006, 05:33:09 pm »


 It's not taught in India either, as far as I know.
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Offline Sheyne

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Re: Hey, non-Americans
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2006, 08:54:15 am »
Somehow this topic title is in my head to the tune of David Bowie's "Young Americans."

"Non-Americans, non-Americans, they were the non-Americans.  All night, they were the non-Americans,"

As a Bowie fan, you tickled my fancy, Elle..  ;)

And now I'm going to hear THAT version every time I play him!!  :-\

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Offline kirkmusic

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Re: Hey, non-Americans
« Reply #29 on: May 08, 2006, 09:13:27 pm »
Yes folks, there are politicians working right now to make America a Christian Theocrasy.  We keep trying like hell to stop them but they keep lying and cheating to win elections, like the good Christians they are, giving actual good Christians a bad name.  They're bound to implode sometime.  Soon.  Please God, soon.