Author Topic: Human Interest and Two Crows Joy by MadLori  (Read 107614 times)

retropian

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Re: Human Interest and Two Crows Joy by MadLori
« Reply #330 on: July 17, 2009, 07:00:43 pm »
I guess one of the things I like about HI/TCJ is that it didn't have the "structured story".  It was just them living as they are and dealing with life's obstacles that are thrown their way.  Just living life as they are and taking it as it comes and learning as they go.  I very much enjoyed that.

I admit I'm not a fan of AUAU.  But heck, change my mind...

I was not a fan of AU either Eric, until recently. I think what changed for me was simply approaching Fan Fiction Jack and Ennis as simply being inspired by the original characters. I think we each have our own ideas of who Ennis and Jack are and I realised I just needed to allow any given author the room to express how they interpret them and just go with the flow. Here are a few AU's I've really enjoyed.


"In Plain Sight" by victopet. My 1st Au!Au, Ennis as a Amish horse trainer, and Jack as a Philly detective. The story weaves together BBM and Witness (the Harrison Ford movie from the 80's), and does so wonderfully. A big Big WARNING!! It is not complete! Hopefully she has not abandoned the story, but it's been a while since the last update. Alot of people refuse to read incomplete stories, and I can see why. One gets involved with the story and then are left hanging because the authors muse vanishes or real life interferes and the story is abandoned. So you are taking a chance. You have to be friended by victopet to read her journal.

http://victopet.livejournal.com/

and our very own marge_innavera(talkstocoyotes) story "Gift of Exile". It's a wonderful Ennis moving on story. So I guess not really AU/AU. He is watched over by Jack who gently encourages him to pursue a new life and new love. Very well done, but also an incomplete work in progress. But I don't think marge has abandoned it.

http://talkstocoyotes.livejournal.com/

and two more:

"Zero at the Bone" by MadLori author of HI and TCJ (livejournal account closed and purged)

and

"Shades of Grey" by Midwest-girl (livejournal account closed and purged)

I have copies of these I could email you if you like.

Offline Mikaela

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Re: Human Interest and Two Crows Joy by MadLori
« Reply #331 on: July 18, 2009, 06:55:04 am »
I think it has to do with what we are used to reading/watching. We expect a clear beginning, a middle and and ending because that´s what we´re used to. It´s the classic structure of a drama. HI on the contrary is narrated episodically.


Another story that has a similar structure as HI, is Maggie´s story "the Del Mar Painting".

Well yes and no to both these comments.  :)

I trust myself to be able to rise above what "we're used to" if the writing speaks to me. And I wouldn't agree we're not used to the combination of episodical narration and non-stop dramatic events. It's the staple of every soap opera and lots of TV series. Dallas and Dynasty from back in the day when I was an impressionable kid come readily to mind, as do many more recent TV series (of high quality and good acting, mind you!).

When it comes to events in HI and to a lesser extent in TCJ though, one thing I react to (that make it less belivable to me, canon or no) is how neatly traumatic events - that each on their own might mar or mark a person and/or relationship for life -  take place, are dealt with - and by and large seem to be moved on from. I don't find it psychologically believable. (Events such as the gay bashing leading to one of them landing in hospital in a coma. The suicide of a son. And currently in TCJ, this whole Ken incident.)

I know I'm in a minority of one when it comes to my various objections to HI, but I think they're relevant for me personally.

Don't get me wrong - I do think Lori is a stellar writer, by all means. And I think she is professional enough to be able to handle objections.


When it comes to DMP - Maggie created a separate universe and associated freely within that universe. Many chapters could be read independently of each other, or in any order you'd please, at least into the run of the saga. At several points she went back and re-created their lives from a different starting point.

The focus was on their internal workings, the impact of rich and overwhelming larger-than-life emotions in a very hum-drum outward life; two guys going out painting for a job all day, then going back home and grilling burgers before having mind-blowing sex. :D  For instance the early "dramatic" incident of them being detained in jail in Utah was never described at all, I think - except as it related to their relationship issues afterwards. And since much of the early "conflict" surrounded DMP Ennis's struggles to come to terms with or even admit to himself that he's gay (and with wanting a much younger man so intensely to up the ante on the inner-conflict angle), he seemed to originally emulate canon more IMO than HI Ennis who had finished with that struggle, somehow.

Their first time on the concrete floor must be deemed iconic, wouldn't you say?  :P

DmP for all intents and purposes was an AU!AU in my book even if canon Ennis (and by reference, Jack) made a brief appearance. Once characters and stories veer away from canon-ish characterizations, especially, I find AU!AUs much easier to deal with when it comes to suspending my disbelief and accepting characters who are not in all respects "Jack" and "Ennis".

I did have considerable objections to the realism of various events and to the characterizations in the course of the DmP saga, though. Especially for Old Cold Time which really had some big plot, consistency and character holes in it - so I was glad when she returned to that free-flowing writing where the guys were back to their paint business and each chapter was a separate fic, in a way.

Maggie's writing had a dream-like, lyrical, nearly hypnotic impact on me - the emotions jumped off the page and hit me in the heart. I wonder what she's doing now - hopefully she's not given up writing.



In conclusion then; there are no rules - it's all about what works for the writer, and for each reader. And thankfully we're not all the same!  :)

(It's raining bad here, and my plans for the day fell through. Can you tell?  :laugh: )


Offline SFEnnisSF

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Re: Human Interest and Two Crows Joy by MadLori
« Reply #332 on: August 18, 2009, 09:35:52 pm »
So, is there going to be a chapter 41?   ???

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Human Interest and Two Crows Joy by MadLori
« Reply #333 on: August 18, 2009, 09:38:11 pm »
Well, she said she was going to finish the story.  And, I don't get the sense that the most recent chapter was the end... so I'd bet there will be more to come.
:)
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Offline SFEnnisSF

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Re: Human Interest and Two Crows Joy by MadLori
« Reply #334 on: August 19, 2009, 01:07:06 am »


Hopin' so.  :)

Offline louisev

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Re: Human Interest and Two Crows Joy by MadLori
« Reply #335 on: August 19, 2009, 03:13:51 am »
Well yes and no to both these comments.  :)

I trust myself to be able to rise above what "we're used to" if the writing speaks to me. And I wouldn't agree we're not used to the combination of episodical narration and non-stop dramatic events. It's the staple of every soap opera and lots of TV series. Dallas and Dynasty from back in the day when I was an impressionable kid come readily to mind, as do many more recent TV series (of high quality and good acting, mind you!).

When it comes to events in HI and to a lesser extent in TCJ though, one thing I react to (that make it less belivable to me, canon or no) is how neatly traumatic events - that each on their own might mar or mark a person and/or relationship for life -  take place, are dealt with - and by and large seem to be moved on from. I don't find it psychologically believable. (Events such as the gay bashing leading to one of them landing in hospital in a coma. The suicide of a son. And currently in TCJ, this whole Ken incident.)

I know I'm in a minority of one when it comes to my various objections to HI, but I think they're relevant for me personally.

Don't get me wrong - I do think Lori is a stellar writer, by all means. And I think she is professional enough to be able to handle objections.


When it comes to DMP - Maggie created a separate universe and associated freely within that universe. Many chapters could be read independently of each other, or in any order you'd please, at least into the run of the saga. At several points she went back and re-created their lives from a different starting point.

The focus was on their internal workings, the impact of rich and overwhelming larger-than-life emotions in a very hum-drum outward life; two guys going out painting for a job all day, then going back home and grilling burgers before having mind-blowing sex. :D  For instance the early "dramatic" incident of them being detained in jail in Utah was never described at all, I think - except as it related to their relationship issues afterwards. And since much of the early "conflict" surrounded DMP Ennis's struggles to come to terms with or even admit to himself that he's gay (and with wanting a much younger man so intensely to up the ante on the inner-conflict angle), he seemed to originally emulate canon more IMO than HI Ennis who had finished with that struggle, somehow.

Their first time on the concrete floor must be deemed iconic, wouldn't you say?  :P

DmP for all intents and purposes was an AU!AU in my book even if canon Ennis (and by reference, Jack) made a brief appearance. Once characters and stories veer away from canon-ish characterizations, especially, I find AU!AUs much easier to deal with when it comes to suspending my disbelief and accepting characters who are not in all respects "Jack" and "Ennis".

I did have considerable objections to the realism of various events and to the characterizations in the course of the DmP saga, though. Especially for Old Cold Time which really had some big plot, consistency and character holes in it - so I was glad when she returned to that free-flowing writing where the guys were back to their paint business and each chapter was a separate fic, in a way.

Maggie's writing had a dream-like, lyrical, nearly hypnotic impact on me - the emotions jumped off the page and hit me in the heart. I wonder what she's doing now - hopefully she's not given up writing.



In conclusion then; there are no rules - it's all about what works for the writer, and for each reader. And thankfully we're not all the same!  :)

(It's raining bad here, and my plans for the day fell through. Can you tell?  :laugh: )



There is a huge amount here that I agree with very strongly, Mikaela.  I did not find that the plot of "HI" had a true focal point, and was extremely uneven.  Good editing will fix that, and I think it is a function of shaping the book as a whole.  If the book is WRITTEN episodically it comes out feeling episodic and unfocused, and when the writer "moves on" from a topic or part of the plot, the reader isn't necessarily going to buy that as psychologically consistent just because the writer doesn't care about that element any longer and felt it was "done."  It takes longer to write a book than to read one, and therefore the reader is a lot more in 'real time' than the writer.  I try to cure that in my writing by becoming a reader on a regular basis - a reader of my own story, and ask myself the question: is this real? Does it feel real?   I am at a point where events in my first book are now a year old.  It's only going to feel like a year to those characters, but for me, writing them, was 3 years ago.  So I have to become a reader in order to get that sense that "only a year has passed."  And in the mind of a reader, the reader might have read the entire story in only a few weeks or months.

And re: DmP, I couldn't read it.  The dialect was incomprehensible and odd, and "Daddy" will never ever be an appropriate endearment for lovers to me.  I tried, but it wasn't going to work, so I can't say much on DmP or its universe.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline SFEnnisSF

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Re: Human Interest and Two Crows Joy by MadLori
« Reply #336 on: September 14, 2009, 05:44:21 pm »

Still no chapter 41 yet...  :-\

Offline SkinheadB

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Re: Human Interest and Two Crows Joy by MadLori
« Reply #337 on: December 22, 2009, 11:31:02 pm »
Still no chapter 41 yet...  :-\


i'm wondering if she just lost interest in finishing it....?

.
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Offline louisev

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Re: Human Interest and Two Crows Joy by MadLori
« Reply #338 on: January 14, 2010, 11:05:09 am »
If anyone here knows how to reach Madlori directly, her gmail account and Livejournal account have been hacked.

I tried to reach her via her Livejournal blog and via Gmail and the hacker has deleted those messages.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Human Interest and Two Crows Joy by MadLori
« Reply #339 on: January 14, 2010, 12:21:39 pm »

Oh no!  That's terrible.

Try sending her a PM here.  I don't know if she'll receive the notification properly if her email isn't working correctly. 

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie