Topic of the Week 03/07: Did Lureen know Jack was gay?

[BBM-Cat]

leaves no doubt that, if she did not arrive at this conclusion earlier, by this point she cannot deny it.

Very well put - prior to that timepoint, if anything, Lureen was certainly aware of the widening rift between her and Jack, though unable to put her finger precisely on it until Ennis’ phone call, IMO. Notice all of her outward, cosmetic attempts to engage or ‘attract’ Jack back to the marriage. I speculate that she had a lot of negative self-thoughts in the early years of her marriage – such as, if she did more of “this”, or “that”, or appeared a certain way, Jack might “love” her more, etc. I imagine that was quite confusing for Lureen, perceiving herself as an educated, socially-accomplished, and attractive woman, whose affections and efforts were not equally reciprocated.

I also speculate that after her energies and understanding failed her, she resigned herself to her anger and resentment as reflected through her increased attempts to hurt Jack with sarcasm (thus making herself even less attractive); and avoiding her marriage by becoming a work-a-holic (making herself unavailable). Interesting, that her ways of coping pushed Jack away even further despite perhaps, longing for the opposite effect. Tragically, she did not understand how to repair the damage, and that it was not within her power to change things for the better.

[pettifogger]

I don't think Lureen had a clue in the early years of her marriage, even as late as the "why can't your buddy come here" scene I believe she was still in the dark.  She was unhappy, her marriage wasn't what she expected it to be but she had no clue why yet.  But by the time we see them on New Years Eve I think maybe she has begun to suspect, I though her comment about husbands never wanting to dance ( dance being a euphemism for something more) with there wives was a barb aimed straight at Jack.  I always wondered if she had discussed her suspicions with someone instead of Jack becoming careless with Randall and that this action is what brought about Jack's murder.  Either way I believe her long held suspicions were confirmed for her in the telephone conversation with Ennis, when he told here about herding sheep on Brokeback.  Suddenly everything made sense much like when Alma opened that door and was confronted with the embracing Ennis and Jack.

[Katie77]

There have been a lot of comparisons between Laureen and Alma and their respective marriages to Jack and Ennis.

Opposites certainly did attract with Jack and Ennis.....

Ennis was a bully to Alma sometimes, and I think she was scared of him and his violent temper...he was very controlling and I think was very selfish...His job came first, obviously his trips away must have stopped Alma ever getting away with him, even their sex life was a one sided affair with Ennis doing what satisfied him and yet it was something that Alma hated....

I think, once Alma saw Ennis and Jack kissing, after getting over being upset about it, she probably began to take some control herself over the marriage, and where she was heading and what she was going to do....she may not have even thought that Ennis was "gay", but she probably thought that whatever it was Jack had with Ennis, was far more nicer than what she had with Ennis....seeing them together, was probably the first and only time that she saw a vulnerable side to Ennis.....

Laureen on the other hand was the opposite...she was the controller right from the start, and Jack in his placid way allowed her and her family to control him....it didnt seem to worry him too much, it worked for them both....she probably wanted him to take control, as shown by her smile when he finally stood up to her father at thanksgiving...

But.....I think Laureen was probably annoyed that something or someone other than her, was also controlling a lot of the things Jack did, and she was right, because Jack also did let Ennis control what was going on with them.

Ennis was the controller and Jack was the controllee in both their marriages and their own relatonship, but as it turns out, no one seemed to be happy.

Maybe thats what the movie wanted to show, how these two people, opposite in so many ways could endure such a long relationship, could love one another against all the odds.....it also showed that they kept secrets from one another, just as they kept secrets from their wives.....their own relationship was in some ways parallel to their marriages.

It seems like the whole 20yrs was a mess of control, of lies, of deception, selfishness and un answered questons....yet somewhere in amongst all that, there was still something pretty special going on......come to think of it....it was that, that controlled everything, right from the very start, and once again Ennis controlled it, and Jack let it control him.....

[LauraGigs]

For me, the biggest single tipoff is the Childress Benefit Dance scene.  Lureen is so bored and apathetic there.  Nothing in the broad conversation interests her... until LaShaun brings up husbands not wanting to dance with their wives.  Suddenly Lureen is interested — interested enough not only to second LaShaun's opinion, but to ask Jack "Why?" and nudge him. 

If she'd said, "husbands never wanna dance with their wives" and sighed resignedly or scanned the room hungrily, we might come to different conclusions. But instead she asks, "Why do you think that is, Jack??" prodding him for an answer.  She's clearly mystified with it all.

BBM-Cat's point about her constant fussing with her appearance is a good one.  I agree that Lureen puts it together in the phone conversation.

(Lureen is more worldly than Alma, but not so much that we can project our own gay-sensitive, 21st-century worldview onto her. She grew up in the 50s and 60s in the rural Southwest, probably with Ladies' Home Journal and similar stuff as her window to the world. For her (and most people nowadays even), the first night in the car would be irrevokable 'proof' he wasn't gay.)

[delalluvia]

For me, the biggest single tipoff is the Childress Benefit Dance scene.  Lureen is so bored and apathetic there.  Nothing in the broad conversation interests her... until LaShaun brings up husbands not wanting to dance with their wives.  Suddenly Lureen is interested — interested enough not only to second LaShaun's opinion, but to ask Jack "Why?" and nudge him. 

If she'd said, "husbands never wanna dance with their wives" and sighed resignedly or scanned the room hungrily, we might come to different conclusions. But instead she asks, "Why do you think that is, Jack??" prodding him for an answer.  She's clearly mystified with it all.

BBM-Cat's point about her constant fussing with her appearance is a good one.  I agree that Lureen puts it together in the phone conversation.

Actually, I thought she sounded very sarcastic "Men don't never seem to want to dance with their wives..."  In response to LaShawn's complaint.  She nudges Jack, irony dripping from her voice, "Why do you suppose that is?"

Jack shrugs his answer and then instantly asks LaShawn for a dance.  Obviously, despite all Lureen's attempts to doll up and change her appearance over the years, she's not having much luck attracting her husband.  Jack, sensing trouble, throws her off track - or is continuing the illusion of possible boredom with her - by asking another woman to dance suggesting to Lureen that he doesn't mind "dancing" with other women.

[Noviani]

Hi, i don't read all other comments.

i think i took very long for Lureen to realize that Jack was gay. i remember she was complaining about why not Jack's fishing buddy who drive down to meet him while Jack has to drive up to the mountain 4 times a year. and i keep laughing everytime Jack bitching back about the big horn is not in Texas or something..

a woman who knew wouldn't express her complain is such attitude.

so it must be some somewhere between that time and the second when Ennis mentioned about herding sheep back in 1963. THAT was when the dear undeniable spat on her face.