Author Topic: Ennis, Cassie and the Twists (revised title)  (Read 27105 times)

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Ennis, Cassie and the Twists (revised title)
« Reply #70 on: May 18, 2006, 09:17:45 am »
It sounds like a good idea for a thread to me... but I bet Jake/ Heath wouldn't remember.  I wonder if they know there's so much controversy about the "I'm sorry" idea.  I'm still firmly in the camp of people who believe that they hear it.  It never even crossed my mind to question it during my theatre viewings.  Heath seems to have mastered the are of ambiguous soft-speech while breathing/exhaling for this film.  The "I'm sorry" problem reminds me of the new controversy over whether he says "I love you" into the double shirts.  I, unfortunately, this this second idea is just wishful thinking.  Heath looked completely distressed on Oprah when she asked him what Ennis's last line was.  I mean if you miss that, it's almost like missing the movie.

After my own nine theater viewings, I had to come down on the side of ... so much depends on the quality of the theater sound system and where you're sitting, not to mention the quality of your own hearing, for what you hear or what you think you hear.

I think it was my third viewing before I actually heard any dialogue in the second tent scene. Then I just heard Jack. Then I discovered the controversy. Then I would have sworn on my sainted mother's grave that I heard Ennis apologize. "I'm sorry" seemed to make sense in context. He'd been, er, a little rough with Jack the first time, and then he'd gone off the next morning without so much as a by-your-leave. In the end, however, I guess it was as a result of subsequent viewings and reading further discussion back at IMDB that I ended up in the camp of Ennis doesn't say anything.
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Offline ednbarby

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Re: Ennis, Cassie and the Twists (revised title)
« Reply #71 on: May 18, 2006, 10:23:21 am »
Heath looked completely distressed on Oprah when she asked him what Ennis's last line was.  I mean if you miss that, it's almost like missing the movie.

Oprah is a Class A moron.  I hope Heath has come to realize, if he didn't already, that she does *not* speak for the audience of this film, or any other group, except maybe Overpaid Arrogant Assholes of America.

Sorry.  Can never resist an opportunity where she's concerned.   :P  You're right - if you miss that, it is like missing the movie.  But I think it's safe to say that she never came close to not missing it in the first place.

Oh, and as if that wasn't a stupid enough thing to say/ask, how about when she said that Jake and Heath had given "the performances OF THEIR LIVES?"  I *loved* the way Jake looked at Heath for a long time after that, as if they were mind-melding on the same thought:  "Jesus, I hope not.  We're 25 and 26 years old, for Christ's sake!"

Idiot.  Did I mention how much I loathe her? 
« Last Edit: May 18, 2006, 10:27:32 am by ednbarby »
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Ennis, Cassie and the Twists (revised title)
« Reply #72 on: May 18, 2006, 10:30:30 am »
Oprah is a Class A moron.  I hope Heath has come to realize, if he didn't already, that she does *not* speak for the audience of this film, or any other group, except maybe Overpaid Arrogant Assholes of America.

Sorry.  Can never resist an opportunity where she's concerned.   :P  You're right - if you miss that, it is like missing the movie.  But I think it's safe to say that she never came close to not missing it in the first place.

Oh, and as if that wasn't a stupid enough thing to say/ask, how about when she said that Jake and Heath had given "the performances OF THEIR LIVES?"  I *loved* the way Jake looked at Heath for a long time after that, as if they were mind-melding on the same thought:  "Jesus, I hope not.  We're 25 and 26 years old, for Christ's sake!"

Idiot.  Did I mention how much I loathe her? 

Oh, Barb, don't hold back. It's unhealthy to keep this stuff bottled up inside of you.  ;) (Loved your comment about the mind meld!)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline starboardlight

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Re: Ennis, Cassie and the Twists (revised title)
« Reply #73 on: May 19, 2006, 12:29:39 pm »
But when Larry or Diana or Ang or Heath or Jake or Linda Cardellini or Randy Quaid or whoever makes some statement about the movie, I feel obliged to accept it because they are the "experts." I'm not free to reject it.

you can go ahead and reject them, because even they, the artists, don't collectively agree. I remember on Oprah, Anne Hathaway saying that how Jack died was obvious, and then Oprah asked "was it not obvious to anyone?" Jake raised his hand. They each interpret the story in their own way.
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Offline serious crayons

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Re: Ennis, Cassie and the Twists (revised title)
« Reply #74 on: May 19, 2006, 01:13:58 pm »
you can go ahead and reject them, because even they, the artists, don't collectively agree. I remember on Oprah, Anne Hathaway saying that how Jack died was obvious, and then Oprah asked "was it not obvious to anyone?" Jake raised his hand. They each interpret the story in their own way.

Thanks, Nipith. I agree. And that's a great anecdote about Anne and Jake -- the fact that it's not even obvious to the guy who played the character really shows how ambiguous it is!

The more I think about it, the more I object to the idea that anyone involved in making the movie automatically has interpretive authority over the viewer. Art is a pact between creator and audience, both dependent on each other's imaginations. Still, it's hard to fight my insecure feeling that the creators' intentions count for more than my personal response. So for me, the safest thing is to avoid hearing it.

Offline kirkmusic

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Re: Ennis, Cassie and the Twists (revised title)
« Reply #75 on: May 21, 2006, 04:19:17 am »
I remember on Oprah, Anne Hathaway saying that how Jack died was obvious, and then Oprah asked "was it not obvious to anyone?" Jake raised his hand. They each interpret the story in their own way.

I thought when Oprah asked Anne "Did she know?" she was asking if Lureen knew about Jack and Ennis.  So when Anne said it was obvious, she was referring to the reactions she had on the phone that we are are so familiar with and appriciative of that let the audience know that yes indeed, Lureen put 2 and 2 together during that conversation and knew she was talking to the person her husband really loved.  At least I thought that's what they were talking about.

Offline Sheyne

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Re: Ennis, Cassie and the Twists (revised title)
« Reply #76 on: May 21, 2006, 04:29:57 am »
Oprah is a Class A moron.  I hope Heath has come to realize, if he didn't already, that she does *not* speak for the audience of this film, or any other group, except maybe Overpaid Arrogant Assholes of America.

Sorry.  Can never resist an opportunity where she's concerned.   :P  You're right - if you miss that, it is like missing the movie.  But I think it's safe to say that she never came close to not missing it in the first place.

Oh, and as if that wasn't a stupid enough thing to say/ask, how about when she said that Jake and Heath had given "the performances OF THEIR LIVES?"  I *loved* the way Jake looked at Heath for a long time after that, as if they were mind-melding on the same thought:  "Jesus, I hope not.  We're 25 and 26 years old, for Christ's sake!"

Idiot.  Did I mention how much I loathe her? 

 :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Did I mention how much I love you, Barb??
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Offline silkncense

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Re: Ennis, Cassie and the Twists (revised title)
« Reply #77 on: May 21, 2006, 11:08:11 am »
I must say I was disappointed that Oprah did not 'get' the movie (on her first viewing). I was eternally thankful tho' that she showcased the cast & film on her show & praised it & encouraged people to see it.  She does have an unprecedented amount of influence on people regarding books, causes, films... 

Another person who praised the film as one of the best & advised his vast audience to see it - Howard Stern.
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Offline ednbarby

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Re: Ennis, Cassie and the Twists (revised title)
« Reply #78 on: May 22, 2006, 08:41:37 am »
I thought when Oprah asked Anne "Did she know?" she was asking if Lureen knew about Jack and Ennis.  So when Anne said it was obvious, she was referring to the reactions she had on the phone that we are are so familiar with and appriciative of that let the audience know that yes indeed, Lureen put 2 and 2 together during that conversation and knew she was talking to the person her husband really loved.  At least I thought that's what they were talking about.

That's how I interpreted it, too, Kirk (though it is all tied in with knowing how Jack really died, so Nipith is right, too).  And to agree with Amanda again, if you don't get that she knew about Ennis and Jack by the end of that conversation (and at the point of knowing suggested to Ennis that he "look up" Jack's folks), you've pretty much missed the entire movie, and the last two scenes are certainly utterly lost on you.

No wonder she was so big on Crash.  She's another one apparently who needs her movies spoon-fed to her.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2006, 08:46:47 am by ednbarby »
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Offline ednbarby

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Re: Ennis, Cassie and the Twists (revised title)
« Reply #79 on: May 22, 2006, 08:45:41 am »
I must say I was disappointed that Oprah did not 'get' the movie (on her first viewing). I was eternally thankful tho' that she showcased the cast & film on her show & praised it & encouraged people to see it.  She does have an unprecedented amount of influence on people regarding books, causes, films... 

Another person who praised the film as one of the best & advised his vast audience to see it - Howard Stern.

True, Silk.  And I have some respect for Stern because of that.  Truthfully, I've found him to have very good taste in films before (er, or at least my taste ;)).  He's vehemently defended a couple others that I've loved over the years in the face of great criticism and/or fear from his audience, too.  Shakespeare in Love was one of them (ducking the SPR Avengers).  Yes, he's a child who regularly degrades women, and I can't abide that second one.  But I have a smidgeon of respect in that he at least can recognize a masterpiece when he sees one, and moreover that he ain't afraid to say so even when he knows damned well his demographic will have a coniption fit because of it.
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