TOTW 07/07: Was Mr. Twist homophobic?

[Artiste]

Merci Front-Ranger!

Your post tells brilliantly about human nature, especially after a death !!


Do you think that Mr. Twist talked with his son about homosexuality ?

May I ask,

au revoir,
hugs!

[Artiste]

Merci oilfieldtrash!

Your post does detail brilliantly too Mr. Twist !! May I say.

And may I ask you too:

     Do you think that Mr. Twist talked with his son about homosexuality ?         

Au revoir,
hugs!

[optom3]

I am inclined to agree with you, sadly, Artiste after thinking about it. I think OMT was condemning Ennis as a fool.

He was a sad, bitter old man who had lost his farm, his spirit, and, at last, his only son. I think he was consumed with grief and one of the earliest stages of grief is anger, leading on to despair and bitterness.

In fact, now that I think about it, the way OMT acted was  similar to the way I saw a few people react after the death of Heath Ledger. It can bring out the worst in people. I've seen people lash out in a vindictive manner, even hatefully. Grief can change people radically. Hopefully it is temporary.

But through it all, I don't think OMT was homophobic because that would mean that he'd be repulsed by his own son. And I don't think that was the case.

I have had to rethink this one again.I am inclined to agree that OMT was not homophobic as I had first thought.In fact I am now starting to wonder if he actually blames Ennis for the death of Jack. Maybe that is why he wants to hurt Ennis by mentioning the new man.After all if Ennis had agreed to the "sweet life" with Jack he would still have been alive.Also OMT may have had his ranch in better shape.

So in his mind at the route of all the despair and hardships in his life he sees , Ennis.

This could also explain the ashes,as in you did not want to agree to his wishes when he was alive,why now he is dead would you want to follow his wishes.
He is undoubtedly angry and bitter.I don't for a minute think he was happy about Jacks homosexuality,but I now think maybe he tolerated it.To OMT it may seem a bit like shutting the stable door after the horse has already bolted.


Curious how others here can make you completely rethink things.

[Artiste]

Merci beaucoup optom!

How wonderful your post is... here !



Now, you got me pensive; you say that maybe OMT tolerated Jack's homosexuality !!

Jack's  mother seems OK with Jack's homosexuality, you think maybe so?

Au revoir,
hugs!

[serious crayons]

I am inclined to agree with you, sadly, Artiste after thinking about it. I think OMT was condemning Ennis as a fool.

He was a sad, bitter old man who had lost his farm, his spirit, and, at last, his only son. I think he was consumed with grief and one of the earliest stages of grief is anger, leading on to despair and bitterness.

In fact, now that I think about it, the way OMT acted was  similar to the way I saw a few people react after the death of Heath Ledger. It can bring out the worst in people. I've seen people lash out in a vindictive manner, even hatefully. Grief can change people radically. Hopefully it is temporary.

But through it all, I don't think OMT was homophobic because that would mean that he'd be repulsed by his own son. And I don't think that was the case.

Well put, Front-Ranger.

I am very glad to read what you said. I have always felt that OMT was poignant and sad, not angry. Defensive, not attacking. I noticed that others didn't feel this way, and some seemed to need to see OMT as a terrible homophobic father who victimized and made fun of his son. I took a different view that OMT was deeply disappointed in his son, and regretted never being able to really be close to him.

Also, I saw a subtext in OMT's kitchen dialog with Ennis. I imagined OMT really saying to Ennis: "You loved my son, why didn't you protect him? I loved my son, why couldn't I protect him?" and in the end, all OMT could do is protect Jack's ashes from someone that he now wanted to see as an outsider.

This too, broketrash.

I have had to rethink this one again.I am inclined to agree that OMT was not homophobic as I had first thought.In fact I am now starting to wonder if he actually blames Ennis for the death of Jack. Maybe that is why he wants to hurt Ennis by mentioning the new man.After all if Ennis had agreed to the "sweet life" with Jack he would still have been alive.Also OMT may have had his ranch in better shape.

So in his mind at the route of all the despair and hardships in his life he sees , Ennis.

This could also explain the ashes,as in you did not want to agree to his wishes when he was alive,why now he is dead would you want to follow his wishes.
He is undoubtedly angry and bitter.I don't for a minute think he was happy about Jacks homosexuality,but I now think maybe he tolerated it.To OMT it may seem a bit like shutting the stable door after the horse has already bolted.

This too, optom3.

Curious how others here can make you completely rethink things.

So true.

[optom3]

Merci beaucoup optom!

How wonderful your post is... here !



Now, you got me pensive; you say that maybe OMT tolerated Jack's homosexuality !!

Jack's  mother seems OK with Jack's homosexuality, you think maybe so?

Au revoir,
hugs!

I have as mentioned hd to have a rethink about all this,but I love it a it keeps my brain cells ticking over.

I would say that OMT tolerate Jacks' homosexuality,for whatever reasons,could be that initially it represnted help foe him in licking the farm into shape.Maybe after his death, he realised that any Jack was better than a dead Jack.
I agree with the person who pointed out that as Jack returned home every year,it is unlikely that OMT would have allowed that if he was completely homophobic.
I think maybe there would have been some persuasion/coercion on the part of Mrs Twist.That is such a common role for Mothers to adopt.I saw it with my own mother and now do it with my kids to some extent.We as moms try to pour oil on troubled waters and keep the family ticking along,in whatever shambolic fashion we can.
As for Mrs Twist I think she both accepted and loved her son no less for his sexual persuasion.She probably would have wanted for him not to have been,but that would have been so his life would have been easier.I see no judgement in any of her actions.Just a mother's love.

The majority of moms have an inbuilt radar as regards their children.It is akin to a 6th sense.I cannot explin it,because it just is.My children know I will always love them no matter gay,staright or in between.It makes no difference to me.My husband is of the same opinion thank goodness.
We have been tested so thoroughly by the antics of our oldest,that homosexuality in either of the other 2 would be a walk in the park!!!!!!
I am fairly sure that my middle son may well have leanings in that direction and my only fear is that in this tate he could have a hard time.
If my suspicions prove right,I would advise him to move to a more tolerant state or back to Europe.
The anti gay attitude in Florida has come as quite a shock to me.

[serious crayons]

I agree with the person who pointed out that as Jack returned home every year,it is unlikely that OMT would have allowed that if he was completely homophobic.

Not only that, it's unlikely that Jack would have confided in OMT his plans to leave his wife and bring Ennis (or the ranch neighbor) up to Lightning Flat to live.

[Artiste]

Merci optom !

You say:
     I agree with the person who pointed out that as Jack returned home every year,it is unlikely that OMT would have allowed that if he was completely homophobic.
I think maybe there would have been some persuasion/coercion on the part of Mrs Twist.That is such a common role for Mothers to adopt     
.....

Optom, to me too the role of Mrs. Twist is capital as she is sweet and understanding, and accepting of Jack, and, of course, of Ennis !!

However, did I get a note that she would not have wanted Jack to be a gay man, preferably ?

Au revoir,
hugs!

[Artiste]

Merci seriouscrayons !

You say:
     Not only that, it's unlikely that Jack would have confided in OMT his plans to leave his wife and bring Ennis (or the ranch neighbor) up to Lightning Flat to live.


     
.......

Seriouscrayons, why do you say unlikely ??

Why not consider likely that Jack had confided such to Mr. Twist and/or Mrs. Twist ??

Au revoir,
hugs!

[optom3]

Merci optom !

You say:
     I agree with the person who pointed out that as Jack returned home every year,it is unlikely that OMT would have allowed that if he was completely homophobic.
I think maybe there would have been some persuasion/coercion on the part of Mrs Twist.That is such a common role for Mothers to adopt     
.....

Optom, to me too the role of Mrs. Twist is capital as she is sweet and understanding, and accepting of Jack, and, of course, of Ennis !!

However, did I get a note that she would not have wanted Jack to be a gay man, preferably ?

Au revoir,
hugs!

Speaking as a mom myself.It is not a prejudice thing.
If the whole world could/would change and become more tolerant to gays,then I would have no preference.

The reason I think Mrs Twist and indeed myself would prefer their children not to be gay, is because no mom wants to see their kids suffer.
We play the nurturing role almost from conception,we do everything we can to keep our kids safe and happy.

Yet if they are gay we know that they will encounter,many things that we would give anything for them not to.
 They will be taunted,ridiculed,in some cases beaten and even murdered.So it is for that reason I would prefer my children not to be gay.

It must have been even worse for Mrs Twist ,in a time and place that was even less enlightened than now.She must have been perpetually worried that her son would be injured or worse murdered.What mother wants to live with that fear.

She would not have loved Jack any less, in fact she may have loved him more,in the way we always tend to protect those who need it most.But none of it helped.I guess her worst fears were realised.I would even go so far as to say she probably thought Jack was murdered for his homosexuality.

I want my children to live free from fear  and to find love. If I could wrap them in cotton wool and protect them from any harm for ever I would. To further clarify,I would not want them to have a partner who was an alcoholic or drug addict either.
What I am really trying to say is I want the perfect life for them.
I know that is not possible.

I just do not want their lives to be any more difficult that they probably will be anyway. Much as I wish it were different,I believe we still live in a very much homophobic world. Some countries worse than others.Indeed even here,some states are worse than others.
If I had  a magic wand I would wave it around and grant tolerance and acceptance of all,but I haven't.