Author Topic: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?  (Read 14097 times)

Offline serious crayons

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2007, 12:30:06 pm »
Plus, to Alma, Ennis' behavior wasn't just strange or shocking, and Ennis wasn't just being an unfaithful husband. She wasn't upset only because her husband appears interested in someone else, or because he has a side to him she didn't suspect. In Alma's view (as in Ennis' view and lots of others people's, back in 1967), what Ennis was doing was, in and of itself, shameful and wrong.

When she confronts him on Thanksgiving, she doesn't just say, "Don't try to fool me no more, Ennis, I know what it means ... you were cheating on me!" or even, "... you are secretly gay!" -- either of which an enlightened modern wife might, in her place, justifiably say. No, she uses the word "nasty!" Homosexuals, to Alma, are nasty.





Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2007, 08:09:05 pm »
Alma was afraid to rock the boat. Period.


This essentially sums up my perception of the situation.  I don't really think fear of Ennis motivated Alma into not confronting him about the Jack-situation for so many years.  I'm not sure I really buy the idea that we're supposed to see Alma as afraid of Ennis (as is sometimes discussed in interpretations of her character... even in interviews with the actors, etc.).  Ennis was intimidating, but I don't really think she was scared of him herself.

I think she was mostly consumed by confusion and a true fear of "rocking the boat."  She was probably raised to think divorce was somewhat shameful.  Prior to the divorce, she was probably really worried about what would happen to her if rumors about Ennis started spreading or if indeed a divorce were to happen.  I think after the divorce she continued to remain discrete about what she knew about Ennis for fear of how rumors might impact the kids and even her own reputation (still).  So, I think big motivating factors for her had to do (always) with reputation and also with her and the kids' ability to maintain a somewhat secure/ stable lifestyle.

I agree that we see her become more and more assertive... maybe especially starting with the argument that happens while the kids are on the swing-set.  I applaud her for standing up for herself in bed with Ennis in the scene right before the divorce. 

But, by the time she confronts Ennis in the kitchen at Thanksgiving, I agree that her bitterness manifests itself as a form of homophobia (especially with the Jack "Nasty" comment... which is the thing that really seems to set Ennis off... and rightly so).

I find Alma to actually be one of the most difficult characters in the film.  Difficult in terms of interpreting her, but also a little difficult in terms of evoking sympathy (at least for me). 

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline jstephens9

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2007, 11:59:12 pm »
I agree with several of you on here in that I do not think Alma was afraid to confront Ennis. Instead, she was totally confused by what she saw. I don't even really think she wants to admit to herself what she saw much less confront Ennis about it. I think she wants to forget that it happened, but every time Jack appears she become more haunted and realizes what is going on. Still, I don't think she wants to admit it to herself. I think her whole world was suddenly turned upside down in a way that she could not bring herself to any kind of understanding of it. She still does not really think it is Ennis' fault even in the Thanksgiving scene. She thinks it was all Jack's fault and doing. I believe she totally thought that if Jack would have not existed all would have been fine. And in fact many of us here on the forum might think the same as her since there has always been a debate about that. Obviously, it was not Jack's fault, but what would have happened to Ennis if he had never met Jack? Remember the last time they saw each other, Ennis even suggests that it is Jack's fault that he is the way he is.

moremojo

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2007, 11:23:32 am »
Remember the last time they saw each other, Ennis even suggests that it is Jack's fault that he is the way he is.
And Ennis is quite right there...without Jack, he would never have met his soul-mate and found the kind of love that many of us will only dream of securing.

Offline jstephens9

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Re: TOTW 08/07: Was Alma afraid to confront Ennis after seeing him with Jack?
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2007, 12:05:31 pm »
So true moremojo  ;)

Offline Artiste

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Alma was afraid to confront then Ennis her husband?

Afraid?  Right there and then?? I do not think so, since she does in a way do so... remember what she says and how??

Au revoir,
hugs!

Offline Artiste

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What do you think then and now ??

Offline Katie77

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A very interesting subject, from back in 1997, that Artiste has opened up again, and for me, having missed it back then when it started, would like to add my story to the comments.

First of all, one of the posts that really affected me the most was this one....

 
I agree with Susiebell on this one.  Alma, was simply overwhelmed at that moment she witnessed the reunion scene at the base of the stairs.  It is simply too much information for her to process. 

Nearly every time I went to the theater to see BBM, and believe me,  it was more than a few; only twice was I with an audience where a few, or in most cases, many, didn't laugh. 

I never did laugh.  Aside from Ennis finding the shirts, this is one of the more heartbreaking scenes for me, and Michelle Williams showed acting at its best.  You can just feel what she has seen, and know that at that moment, her world has just been shattered.  Does he love me?  Why did he marry me?  Who is this Jack guy?   The questions she must have had are endless.

Even the next morning as she is holding the baby, she tries to feebly wave goodbye to Ennis as he and Jack take off for the first of many fishing trips.  Doubt she waved goodbye much after the second or third fishing expedition.

Even after it appears that she has sit up all night waiting for Ennis to come home from his siesta at the Siesta, she still hasn't figured it all out, but has had all night long to go over many of the possibilities.  I don't think Alma even had it all quite put together even by the time she divorced Ennis.  I do think she had put it all together by the time the Thanksgiving dinner rolled around after she had remarried and found herself pregnant again.

She probably never let a day  or night, or waking moment go by that she didn't let this revelation that her ex-husband might be secretly gay.  She probably let it eat away at her very soul until the present day if she were a real character.   And that is what makes this movie so real, because there are many, many real life Alma's out there who have experienced the very same thing.

Firstly, I was upset and astounded that anyone could laugh at that scene. How could anyone not feel for Alma at that moment. And if they did not have compassion for what SHE was feeling, have some emotional fear for Ennis and Jack that this may cause some future destruction to their relationship.

When I first saw the movie, I did not know the story, when they embraced in the reunion scene I was elated, feeling so good, then when Alma opened the door, I gasped and became quite breathless, in that split second I felt an overwhelming pain for her, and at the same time I felt a fear, that the boys had been "caught". It was probably the most memorable emotional scene in the movie for me, and still haunts me even after 50 plus viewings of the movie.

There is a personal reason for my emotions over that scene, because it gave me an insight into how my own mother would have felt, back in the same time period, when she too, walked in on my father in the arms of a man.

She too, had been married to him for several years, had two daughters (me, being the youngest). She actually confronted him, I remember her telling me, the only thing she could think to threaten him with was that she would "tell his mother". In some ways, that threat seems a little bit frivolous and even humourous now, but at the time, it was the worst thing she could think of to say to him, and hurt him. Dad, then retaliated and made threats himself.  He was not a violent man, never physically hurt my mum, so she was more intimidated with his threats more than afraid of them. No doubt it was a very explosive situation and a frightening one for both of them.

Somehow, believe it or not, they got through this initial confrontation. Somehow, for a couple of years afterwards, my mother accepted that my father was gay, and even accepted his gay friends. I can remember even as a 7yr old, these "friends", who we enjoyed social outings with as a family. Of course, I did not know what was actually happening, or detect anything other than that these men were friends.

It was the mid 50's, and homosexuality was illegal in Australia then, my mother was just a young housewife, raising two kids, obviously staying was a better option to her than leaving. She kept the "secret", not only because of the social reactions and embarrassment that would have been provoked but because there was the possiblity that my father would have been prosecuted by the law for his actions.

Eventually, a few years later, we moved to Sydney, 100 miles north of where we lived. But this move was their separation. Dad moved to an apartment with his male partner, and mum and us two kids, moved to another apartment. Mum got a job, and dad helped her out with the finances, and we spent a lot of weekends with Dad, and life went on from there.

Mum eventually remarried, and is 81 now, and in good health and has had a happy life.

Dad and his partner stayed together for 14 years. Dad committed suicide a few years after that partnership broke up. He was 56.

As you can see, Brokeback Mountain, had many parallels to my own life, but most importantly as I watched it (then aged 55), for the first time, I finally realized and understood both the emotions and fears that both my father and mother must have gone through all those years before.
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It means you've decided to see beyond the imperfection

Marge_Innavera

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I just re-read this thread and definitely don't think it was any fear of Ennis. The only scene where Alma seems to be actually afraid of him is the Thanksgiving kitchen scene -- and even then, only at the end when she gets a very explosive reaction.

I can remember the era Alma was living in clearly (c. 1967) and an adult in those days, even someone in a big city, was raised with the idea that homosexuality was a mental disorder.  There was also an entrenched notion, that you still see in anti-gay groups that (quoting John Shelby Spong here) homosexuals were "heterosexuals behaving badly."

Alma most likely didn't think about homosexuality much and if she did, her mental image was probably that of some creepy person who looked like they'd spent their life locked up in a basement, someone you couldn't trust your children around.  Ennis didn't fit any of that so she might have been devastated that he was being unfaithful to her but she might have thought for awhile that he'd get over it.  On the other hand, if she'd seen him kissing another woman that way I'd bet she'd speak up the second he walked back through the door.

Offline Artiste

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Merci Katie !

Wow, your post reveals such interests !

Thanks very, very much !

Since mother is calling me, I will come back later. And if I forget, please remind me !

Hugs! Au revoir... chère (dear) Katie !