Serious Discussions about Life

[ifyoucantfixit]

          I would never cause or take part in an....as you call it.  Knock down drag out...I am just saying there are two schools of thought..I appreciate yours.  I hope I can expect the same.
          I certainly meant no disrespect.....I would just decline my position if it were to lead to
that//

[Daniel]

I know you didn't... and I just wanted to clarify all of what I just said before we got any further... There's no need for anyone to apologize for their own views... and if you're feeling rubbed the wrong way by what someone else has said, try to calm down and get to why it feels like you've been rubbed the wrong way. Okay, everything I'm saying is better reserved for argument-ending, which isn't happening here, but its good stuff so I'm just gonna leave it... lol...

So anyway, as long as we're agreeing that we're basically agreeing to disagree and to maintain our own viewpoints and not try to subvert others, let's carry on.

[ifyoucantfixit]

      I hope I did not seem too arguementative.  I was only pointing out the fact that myself and
others have not seen the ethos or future as a place we choose to land.  We only want to partake
in all the aspects of today and now..Without the disdain or criticisim that we are not worthy of
the ability to philosophize.  That is...pardon my view.. of your brothers thoughts.  Rude and
disregarding, and misogenistic.  I don't and havent found that to be true at all...

[injest]

Scott,

If I were to subscribe to it....I would be absolved of all 'sin' or crimes because the 'victims' wanted to be victims. So how can you justify putting anyone in jail?

If I believed that other people that are in worse circumstances than I am in CHOOSE their circumstance then what right have I got to aid them? In fact if I use and abuse them I am being helpful....since it is in fact what they wanted. A step further down the road you lay out....If I abuse WORSE then I am hastening them on their fun journey. So dont' just rape....mutilate! I am doing what she wants.

Your philosophy seems too close to the patriarchal standard we have just pulled ourselves away from.

[Daniel]

It is misogynistic; my brother has some strange views about life, but considering the way my father is, its a miracle he's not a gung-ho male-chauvinist **** (insert expletive here).  Fortunately, I think he's really trying to do something about them, unlike my father.  And I have tried to point out that most of the girls that are his age that he can hang around with have some serious issues besides their "inability to philosophize".  It was not much of a surprise to me when my brother informed me that most of the women his age have serious problems with alcohol, self esteem, and relationship addictions. And I hate to say that, because it sounds like I am stereotyping all women ages 21 to 25, but here in the DFW area, with its lack of public transportation resources and disturbing absence of anything really fun or meaningful for young adults.... I fear that a lot of young people have adapted their lives to weekend alcohol binging... err, partying, drug use and casual sex as a way of filling their lives.  I am glad that my brother hasn't gotten into too much of that, though, and I think a large part of it might have been my urging of the free and open mind in his later education.

[injest]

It is misogynistic; my brother has some strange views about life, but considering the way my father is, its a miracle he's not a gung-ho male-chauvinist **** (insert expletive here).  Fortunately, I think he's really trying to do something about them, unlike my father.  And I have tried to point out that most of the girls that are his age that he can hang around with have some serious issues besides their "inability to philosophize".  It was not much of a surprise to me when my brother informed me that most of the women his age have serious problems with alcohol, self esteem, and relationship addictions. And I hate to say that, because it sounds like I am stereotyping all women ages 21 to 25, but here in the DFW area, with its lack of public transportation resources and disturbing absence of anything really fun or meaningful for young adults.... I fear that a lot of young people have adapted their lives to weekend alcohol binging... err, partying, drug use and casual sex as a way of filling their lives.  I am glad that my brother hasn't gotten into too much of that, though, and I think a large part of it might have been my urging of the free and open mind in his later education.

well you find what you look for. If you go to bars all the time looking for dates then you are going to meet people that drink...

[Daniel]

Here, perhaps this excerpt from Fire in the Soul will help you, Jess.

Andrei had just received the phone call I've always feared the most. The one that would tell me that loved one had died suddenly. [....] Mat died before he even reached the hospital. Andrei's anguished "why?" was resonated by most of the teenagers who gathered at our home to grieve during the first few days after the tragedy. Why Mat? Why the one who never had a critical word for anyone, the one who was so grateful for life, so accepting of the uniqueness and potential of everyone he met? "Why the very best of us?" they asked.
     At odds with Andrei and the others, one young woman admonished, "Don't even ask that question. It doesn't have an answer that we could possibly understand." This teenager in white sneakers and red socks had put her finger directly on the pulse of the sacred mystery. We cannot know. But for human beings, the need to know goes hand in hand with restructuring our world after tragedy.
     Tragedy brings forth the need to create meaning -to tell new stories - that can reweave the frayed ends of life into a coherent whole. Our ability to tell these stories is positively linked with recovery, according to the research of UCLA-based psychologist Shelly Taylor. Studying people whose lives had been disrupted by misfortunes that ranged from rape to life-threatening illness, Dr. Taylor found that those who readjusted well incorporated three coping strategies into their recovery: a search for meaning in the experience, an attempt to gain mastery over the event in particular and life in general, and a recouping of self-esteem after they had suffered some loss or setback.[size]
     Dr. Taylor was awed by the remarkable resilience of human nature and the deep reservoir of strength that tragedy taps. She observed that, rather than folding in times of crisis, most people have the innate capacity to recover from monumental problems, readjusting to life not only as well as, but even better than, before the tragedy occurred. And the meaning we ascribe to these dark nights of the soul is central to how we emerge from them.

You are asking about the cruelty of taking a life, of hindering our development as human beings and as individuals, the incarceration and destruction of thousands of lives. Do these events have meaning? To many, yes. The survivors of these acts of cruelty can become stronger and better people than they were before; they can respond to their own thoughts of vengeance - cruelty in response to cruelty, and master them. And I do not think there is anything more empowering for a human being than realizing that you can do more than just get revenge. You can do something productive, rather than destructive... Responding to cruelty with the ultimate kindness, the sacrifice of life's pleasures and comforts to bring true knowledge, meaning, and many other states of loving awareness to others.

In response to being raped at knifepoint, we can struggle to regain our prior sense of being, a greater sense of being, and with that difficult moment now part of ourselves we have a more powerful strength to do what we have always felt called to do but did not realize it, or did not know that we had the strength to do it.

I think that this, in part, is what Scott is refering to. We do not create the cruelties that take place in our lives, but we are actively seeking for ways to make us stronger and better human beings and individuals. And sometimes, though it may be a rare and unfortunate event, the very thing that we fear will happen to us the most is the thing that grants us that extra strength, that extra courage, the extra power we need to accomplish our life's mission.

[Daniel]

well you find what you look for. If you go to bars all the time looking for dates then you are going to meet people that drink...

Where else would you like him to go?

And I am not referring to casual drinkers... the purpose and intent of alcohol binging is to get piss-drunk, to forget who you are. This is the modicum of entertainment that many young adults have taken on themselves, and what is worse is that the media is sponsoring this idea more fully than ever before.
I seem to be the last of a dying breed, the philosophical youth. I would counter it will all my might, if I could, I would do everything in my power to see that an army of free thinking individuals stands upon the horizon of tomorrow. But here in the United States, where the public education system dumbs down its inmates; the government bans and disenfranchises ideas of political dissension as anti-American or terrorist threats, and where the economy is controlled not by independent businesses but by a central banking system with vested interests in maintaining the perpetual idea of free thought but never allowing it to blast off, I do not think this army of free thinking individuals will rise anytime soon.

[injest]

Where else would you like him to go?

And I am not referring to casual drinkers... the purpose and intent of alcohol binging is to get piss-drunk, to forget who you are. This is the modicum of entertainment that many young adults have taken on themselves, and what is worse is that the media is sponsoring this idea more fully than ever before.
I seem to be the last of a dying breed, the philosophical youth. I would counter it will all my might, if I could, I would do everything in my power to see that an army of free thinking individuals stands upon the horizon of tomorrow. But here in the United States, where the public education system dumbs down its inmates; the government bans and disenfranchises ideas of political dissension as anti-American or terrorist threats, and where the economy is controlled not by independent businesses but by a central banking system with vested interests in maintaining the perpetual idea of free thought but never allowing it to blast off, I do not think this army of free thinking individuals will rise anytime soon.

bookstores

sports groups

charitable organizations

spiritual organizations

night classes

[Daniel]

I'll pass on your ideas, Jess, but I know he has tried going to church with some of his girl friends and found that to be as disgusting as I find our current state of political and economic affairs. I cannot say that I blame him, for like most of the south and midwest, we are ruled by the megachurches.  Organizations designed to hold individual lives in check through religious and political fear.  If you have ever seen the film Jesus Camp, you will have some idea what type of experiences might be occurring in youths in their attempts to grasp their own spiritual identities. Indoctrination, Bible Camp, forced prayer, even forced speaking in tongues in some places.

My brother can recount for you one of the most terrifying experiences he ever had while attending a megachurch (actually I think it may have been a smaller church with a megachurch mentality), in which he was quite literally forced to "pray in tongues". The pastor forcibly held him down until he did. And scarily, this is a common occurence. There is nothing I can do about it though, and that saddens me... The world will remain like this (or become progressively worse) until we as a culture, as a society can rise up and say that we are fed up with it and come up with something new, something that works in man's progressive search for his inner self... and not merely come up with food, clothing, and machines that make us look and feel good about ourselves. We must advance the inner mind, the soul, in search of a greater depth of meaning...

I know that a spiritual organization is different from a religious organization, but if you look around here in the DFW metroplex, you will not find many spiritual organizations. I tried to find a Parabola reading group down here not too long ago, and found that it had been dissolved some time before I even moved. As far as I know, there are no organizations in pursuit of spiritual meaning here in DFW and I've looked high and low for them. Everything that's even remotely spiritual is wrapped up in pretense and psychological mumbo-jumbo that has no place in the search for self.

For a while, new age bookstores provided some relief from this catoleptic experience of life, but the megachurches have pounded them out of commission. In an area that once was the Aquarian Capital, there are now 2 new age businesses that have not been put out of business.  There are other bookstores, yes, but strangely enough, they are mostly empty of customers. You can sometimes find someone in the cooking section, or the romantic fiction arena but that's just about it.

Night classes? He's taking some graduate courses, but I don't think they're the deep and provocative ones that one should really be taking to challenge the mind and void our lives of the repetitive, incessant babble of the beginnings of the posthumanist era.