Timeline for the last scenes

[TJ]

Interestingly, and messed up as usual, the screenplay says their last meeting took place in 1981, the last postcard and the trip to the Twists in 1982.

Well, for some odd reason, it was quite a while after Ennis sent the postcard about the November (7) meeting before he got the card returned.

And, I think it was actually a hot Wyoming summer when Ennis finally ended up a Lightning Flat. That's why Annie Proulx said that Jack's boyhood bedroom was tiny and hot.

From Page 49 of the paperback book -----

The old man spoke angrily. "I can't get no help out here. Jack used a say, 'Ennis del Mar,' he used a say, 'I'm goin a bring him up here one a these days and we'll lick this damn ranch into shape.' He had some half-baked idea the two a you was goin a move up here, build a log cabin and help me run this ranch and bring it up. Then, this spring he's got another one's goin a come up here with him and build a place and help run the ranch, some ranch neighbor a his from down in Texas. He's goin a split up with his wife and come back here. So he says. But like most a Jack's ideas it never come to pass."

IMO, the "this spring" does not refer to the spring month that Ennis last saw Jack, it refers to the spring in the current year.

What Jack's father said makes me believe that Jack was not dead or even in an accident in the first place. And, even according to Ang Lee, Lureen was lying when Ennis talked to her on the phone; and AP wrote that she was polite but cold.

[delalluvia]

The screenplay and movie deviate I think.

In the movie, the last postcard says something like 'November is still looking like the first chance...' or something like that, implying that it is late summer of the same year of their last meeting. 

The John Twist comment 'This spring, he's got another fella..."  That could have been Jack's trip to visit his folks after that last fateful meeting with Ennis.  Jack was hurt and angry and resigned to giving up on any hope of something permanent with Ennis.  He could have easily spoke of Randall to his folks without ever having talked to Randall to see if he was game, the same way he spoke about Ennis to his folks.  It was just Jack's 'talking'.

So that means the last meeting, the postcard and the trip to the Twists all took place in the same year and not over a span of two years like the screenplay states.

[TJ]

Here in Oklahoma when a rural or small town person says "this spring" and it is two seasons later than springtime, he most often means "next spring," as in "next year." That is, unless it really is spring, when he is talking.

[serious crayons]

The John Twist comment 'This spring, he's got another fella..."  That could have been Jack's trip to visit his folks after that last fateful meeting with Ennis.  Jack was hurt and angry and resigned to giving up on any hope of something permanent with Ennis.  He could have easily spoke of Randall to his folks without ever having talked to Randall to see if he was game, the same way he spoke about Ennis to his folks.  It was just Jack's 'talking'.

Good point, Del. Sometimes we all talk as if, since Ennis didn't go for the idea, Jack went back and either did or didn't go off with Randall and they (potentially could have) lived happily ever after. But for all we know, Randall was as reluctant as Ennis. It wouldn't have been a particularly easy decision for anyone, I wouldn't think, back in them days.

[azphil]

Hi, all...........

Sounds like you have some fun and some "larn'n" here, so let a newbie jump in, won't you?

Don't know about the time lines on other events you've been discussing here, but as concerns Ennis' visit to Lightning Flat, I don't think he'd of let any grass (er, make that tumbleweed) grow under his feet after his phonecon with Lureen.  He'd have wanted to make sure that he quickly got to the parents before they'd taken any final action with Jack's cremated remains.

Hey, just a thought.   

[delalluvia]

but as concerns Ennis' visit to Lightning Flat, I don't think he'd of let any grass (er, make that tumbleweed) grow under his feet after his phonecon with Lureen.  He'd have wanted to make sure that he quickly got to the parents before they'd taken any final action with Jack's cremated remains.

Good point azphil.  Is that Arizona lover or Philip of Arizona or something else?

[TJ]

Using the original short story as part of my argument here, since Ennis Del Mar was still working at the Stoutamire Ranch when he called Lureen and the fact that because as he got older, Ennis seems to have become more stable in his work ethic. That's partly why Ennis said that meeting in May was a trade off for August which might have been in Jack's and Ennis's original plans to meet both in May and in August.

IMO, Ennis does not seem to be the type to suddenly drop something and rush off. And, the only time that he suddenly did that was at the reunion in 1967. He was only supposed to take one day off in June 1967, the 24th, from his highway crew job to meet Jack. Ennis was working on a ranch on weekends at the time, too.

Oh, Ennis did get easy-to-quit jobs that he could leave if Jack agreed to meet him somewhere; but, those meetings still had to be planned ahead of time.

[silkncense]

TJ -

I am totally confused by your post:

IMO, the "this spring" does not refer to the spring month that Ennis last saw Jack, it refers to the spring in the current year.

Ennis sent Jack a postcard for November of the year they were at the lake (in the spring).  It was returned 'deceased'  How could it be the following spring that his father is speaking about?  Am I confused, or are you?

Also, I think Jack mentioned the "ranch neighbor' not as something real or something that would  "ever come to pass."  It was said from pain & self defense.  He wasn't going to keep saying "Ennis" - it may have been his father even chided him about all the years he & Ennis failed to come up. 

[TJ]

IN THE BOOK, Jack mentioned the wife of a Texas rancher and the rancher only one time.

If we think that the rancher neighbor that Mr. Twist is talking about, when Ennis goes up to Lightning Flat, is the very same rancher, then our "argument/idea comes from silence," which means we are guessing that.

IMOEO (in my over-educated opinion) as a person who has taken two college course in literary criticism, "Cassie and LaShawn and Randall" never existed.

[serious crayons]

Also, I think Jack mentioned the "ranch neighbor' not as something real or something that would  "ever come to pass."  It was said from pain & self defense.  He wasn't going to keep saying "Ennis" - it may have been his father even chided him about all the years he & Ennis failed to come up. 

Silk, you don't thinking the ranch neighbor was a reference to Randall? Realistic or not, I've always assumed that meant that Jack had given up on Ennis and turned to Randall as a potential co-rancher.