Gay Marriage

[tampatalon]

Hey All, I have had several people inquire about my gay marriage (Canadian) so I thought I would open up a discussion topic and see if there was any further interest in the subject discussion. I will say it becomes multi-layered and complex once ya cross the border back to the US

TampaTalon ^">

[injest]

Hi Tampalian..

We haven't met. Can you tell us about your marriage? How long have you been married? You live in Canada?

[tampatalon]

Hey Injest, Actually I am from Tampa Florida. My partner and I of 30 years have been watching the marriage issues throughout the US for several years. The issues in the US are extremely multi-layered and vary from State to State. We decided to "tie the knot" in Niagara Falls Canada on our 30th Aniversery. We stayed at a beautiful Victorian Bed & Breakfast run by two lesbians very near the Falls. After obtaining the license we had a beautiful ceremony in the Gardens of the home by a Unitarian Deacon. In Canada same-sex marriage is on equal footing with strait marriage, no restrictions so we "went for it". Unfortunately back here in Florida there is no legal status; but we have our eyes turned Northward for retirement in a bout 15 years.
Thank you Canada!

TampaTalon ^">

[Shakesthecoffecan]

How does it become multi-layered once you cross the border? I thought it would just be ignored and have no validity in the U.S.

[tampatalon]

The marriage is ignored in about 41 States and the Federal Government; However it is honored in Massachuset and New Jersey. New Jersey and California have the most complete Civil Union /Domestic Partner Laws which include in California rights to the remains after death. California does not acknowledge the Canadian liicense and one most register under California Domestic Partner Law. The State of New York several years ago began honoring the license for some government domestic partner benefits. By layers, I mean it gets complicated depending where you live as to what it actually means. If ya get married in Canada, move to California and register as a domestic partner more complications. Now then, filing State and Federal Income Tax becomes another whole issue and so does divorce. And a post script, I cannot marry a woman in Florida if I wanted, I am married and bigamy is against the law.
 Yi yi yi
TampaTalon ^">

[Shakesthecoffecan]

And a post script, I cannot marry a woman in Florida if I wanted, I am married and bigamy is against the law.
 Yi yi yi
TampaTalon ^">

Now that is just weird, they won;t accept your marriage but if you try to play by their rules they see an opportunity to label you a bigamist. Sounds like an opportunity for a court challange. (no I'm not up to it.)

[brokeplex]

The marriage is ignored in about 41 States and the Federal Government; However it is honored in Massachuset and New Jersey. New Jersey and California have the most complete Civil Union /Domestic Partner Laws which include in California rights to the remains after death. California does not acknowledge the Canadian liicense and one most register under California Domestic Partner Law. The State of New York several years ago began honoring the license for some government domestic partner benefits. By layers, I mean it gets complicated depending where you live as to what it actually means. If ya get married in Canada, move to California and register as a domestic partner more complications. Now then, filing State and Federal Income Tax becomes another whole issue and so does divorce. And a post script, I cannot marry a woman in Florida if I wanted, I am married and bigamy is against the law.
 Yi yi yi
TampaTalon ^">

Thanks for the info!   ...you have information that I did not have. Let me see if I understand what you are saying :  Mass , NJ, and Ca will honor your civil marriage from Canada? This is really interesting because to my knowledge at this time there are no states or localities where same sex unions for US adults, requesting a US state issued license, is not under court challenge..therefore not yet legal. The "twist" in your case seems to be that you had the foresight to get the license in Canada. Congrats to you! Boo to US laws, so some US states will recognize foreign same sex unions, while still rejecting US same sex unions! Well, it is a step in the right direction! I have this to say to the homophobes who continue to deny our rights as Americans to marry in America the partner of our choice.... quoting Joe Aguirre, "Get out of my fucking trailer!"

[tampatalon]

Now that is just weird, they won;t accept your marriage but if you try to play by their rules they see an opportunity to label you a bigamist. Sounds like an opportunity for a court challange. (no I'm not up to it.)

<smiile> Can't lie at the Courthouse fer sure. Being in an ignore the license State does present opportunity for certain tax advantages though in the opposite direction much to my chagrin.

TampaTalon ^">

[Artiste]

Even if I am a gay man in an somewhat democratic country, this subject scared me at first!!

Now, am looking forward to such!! May I find him!!

My former partner, I guess, thought of such asking for us to have rings. But, I refused... unfortunately or fortunately!!

Hugs!

[Artiste]

I think that gay marriages, legal ones, will save gay lives!!

Hopefully!! ??

Hugs!!

[tampatalon]

I think that gay marriages, legal ones, will save gay lives!!

Hopefully!! ??

Hugs!!

I heartily agree with you Artiste.

TampaTalon ^">

[Artiste]

Thanks tampatalon!

Maybe that legal gay marriages will also bring more legal rights too?

Hugs!

[tampatalon]

Thanks tampatalon!

Maybe that legal gay marriages will also bring more legal rights too?

Hugs!

Legal Marriage would bring full legal rights such as it does it Canada; however, legal rights do not erase the years of learned prejudice and hatred, only time will heal those later wounds. And that applies everywhere.

TampaTalon ^">

"Never enuff time"

[CellarDweller]

We need to not settle for "civil unions" and press on for full marriage rights.

As I understand it, couples who have received civil unions are being told they get most rights that a married couple would have, such as medical benefits or pension benefits.

Then, when they go to the employer, the employer tells them "our company only covers spouses or "husbands and wives", and since you are not married, we do not have to extend the medicial or pension rights to your partner."

[tampatalon]

We need to not settle for "civil unions" and press on for full marriage rights.

As I understand it, couples who have received civil unions are being told they get most rights that a married couple would have, such as medical benefits or pension benefits.

Then, when they go to the employer, the employer tells them "our company only covers spouses or "husbands and wives", and since you are not married, we do not have to extend the medicial or pension rights to your partner."

Agreed CellerDweller, but till then one must have all your legal paperwork in a row to protect your loved one and yourself. And by paperwork, I mean Wills, Durable Power of Attorney, Medical Power of Attorney and whatever else your state or jurisdiction may require. My employer,here in Florida, does offer medical benefits. Upon my legal Canadian marriage I went to have my partner's name changed on the medical package. Before I could finish explaining I was told, "We cannot do that because the marriage is not legal here". I then handed the Human Resources Agent a Court Ordered Legal name change and said., "This Court Order says you will."

Deafining silence and then the name was changed.

TampaTalon ^"> (Still employed)

[Artiste]

Thanks tampatalon, and thanks CellarDweller!!

Happy that you are considering legal marriage rights there in the USA, as well as in Canada (and elsewhere)!!

When I saw that the islamic MD was murdering my gay lover.partner.buddy.pal in the hospital, I tried to say that I had rights and said when asked that I was a PARTNER!! Then, they revived my buddy from what I know!! Otherwise, he would surely been sold from Canada to an islamic country for body parts much quicker... I guess!! I figure that is what happened! I am still sad!!

I think that gay marriages (in many forms such as civil unions, legal marriages at city hall, etc.,) will help SAVE lives of gay men such as I and you!! However, religions fought this in Canada, and still some like so-called religions are against (even so-called religions like the islamic ones will murder gays as they accept no other religions nor gays at all)!!

We must continue to ask and demand in Canada, in the USA, and elsewhere, and require laws for gay marriages and for other rights. Gay marriages help with you having permission to see your lover in a hospital, for you to get or share pension plan, to help your lover or yourself in a court of law, etc.; there are many civil rights and human rights associated with this!! You know??

Hugs!!

[Artiste]

I think that this subject is very important!!

May us all communicate much more about it?

Hugs!

[brokeplex]

I think that this subject is very important!!

May us all communicate much more about it?

Hugs!

I agree Artiste this is very important, in fact I believe that same sex marriage is the core of Gay rights as human beings. So, how is this accomplished? It is one thing to post our agreement as to the urgency in this matter. I hope that we all agree on this! But it is another thing to actually aid and foster its implementation.

I don't know the Canadian system, but I sure do know US politics fairly well. There seems to be two routes to this type of legal / political change:

1) thru the courts - The Federal Courts can rule that Same Sex marriage is legal, and thereby bind the states to implement it, barring action by the US Congress. If this happens there will be an enormous political backlash that will probably result in an admendment to the US Constitution defining marriage as between a man and woman only. This is not something that those of us who advocate same sex marriage want at all. An example of high court rulings changing US social policy is the 1973 Roe v Wade decision which legalized abortion in the US before a political consensus emerged among the states. Abortion rights are now fairly uniform across the US, but there was been continuous agitation for a reversal of Roe for 30+ years. According to some Supreme Court watchers whom I trust there are a definite 4 ro 5 votes right now to overturn Roe and send the issue back to the State legislatures for possible voting on the degree to which individual states will allow or disallow abortion rights. If a Republican is elected in Nov 2008 you can count on another Alito type appointed to the court and Roe is overturned. Then the battle over choice goes on for years state by state.

2) carefully build political consensus in those areas of the US that are likely to allow same sex marriage - lobby legislatures and municipalities to issue laws allowing such marriages. Consensus among the electorate is key to winning this stategy. This is the hardest route and the slowest, but the most likely to have results that stand the test of time and elicit the least amount to backlash. In the US, the electorate ultimately has the final say, and if the voters vote for same sex marriage, it will be very difficult for the opponets of same sex marriage to reverse it.

[Artiste]

Thanks brokeplex!

Be assured that I like very much your description! That was done as so, (like you say, in Canada, as we asked for gay marriage in the parliaments (federal, provinces...) which refused it and fought for it in the courts, as well in the public opinion for gay rights!! We must continue here in Canada, and elsewhere in the whole world! Aid somehow the USAgays, you and I and others!

May  we, every gay persons and straights,  thank our soldiers for creating our freedom and continue to create it, for us all !!

Like them, we, gay persons, with straights, can and should and must try for our freedom to love and to marry legally!

As a gay man, I was puzzled by the idea of gay marriages. Still am... somewhat or much. And see more and more the values of  and for it! Many valuable ways FOR it!

I do not think that I would have been allowed to see my gay lover in the hospital, nor to try to save his life, had it not been for gay rights in Canada!! He and I were not married to each other (that is a different story for later), but  other legal acts here in the province provided me means to see him, as well as to try to save his life.

Why should one not see his lover in the hospital? Shocking is such a refusal by a hospital!

Gay marriage is one way to protect oneself in order to see your lover in the hospital!

And there are other reasons, as staights (many or too many or some) kick you out the door of your own home in the house you lived with your lover for many years, when your lover dies!!

I agree with you... that those two ways are urgent for gay marriage to happen...


hugs!

[tampatalon]

Brokeplex and Artiste, Your comments are excellent. There are also other ways to advocate gay marriage in everyday life. First step as my husband and I did was to go to Canada and become legally married. Once back in Florida our subtle struggle began and we continue the fight changing were possible one mind at a time. In the fall of 2008 the Florida Marriage Admendment will hit the ballot defining Marriage as between a man and a woman. I call it the Admendment of hate and discrimination as it goes further to ban Civil Union and Domestic Partnership. It will most likely strip Domestic Partner Insurance and Benefits to government workers and univeristies as it has in Michigan and Ohio. But back to our struggle. I decided at work I was not goning to "Ennis" myself behind whispers and remarks, I just came out with it and wear my wedding band everywhere. After the intial shock rumbled thru both work campuses, they decided to throw a reception and it went well. Eventially people who were resistant to this concept of marriage settled back into normalcy when they saw the world did not turn upside down. We also put each other as spouse or next of kin when filliing out paperwork. Usually we are then approached with curiosity and nothing more. We do not sport the fact we are married no more than a strait couple unless asked or are in one of these above situations but we feel that if we change a few minds by being a good example, we have accomplished the world. Maybe it will stop a few more people from voting for discrimination in Florida 2008

TampaTalon ^">

[brokeplex]

Brokeplex and Artiste, Your comments are excellent. There are also other ways to advocate gay marriage in everyday life. First step as my husband and I did was to go to Canada and become legally married. Once back in Florida our subtle struggle began and we continue the fight changing were possible one mind at a time. In the fall of 2008 the Florida Marriage Admendment will hit the ballot defining Marriage as between a man and a woman. I call it the Admendment of hate and discrimination as it goes further to ban Civil Union and Domestic Partnership. It will most likely strip Domestic Partner Insurance and Benefits to government workers and univeristies as it has in Michigan and Ohio. But back to our struggle. I decided at work I was not goning to "Ennis" myself behind whispers and remarks, I just came out with it and wear my wedding band everywhere. After the intial shock rumbled thru both work campuses, they decided to throw a reception and it went well. Eventially people who were resistant to this concept of marriage settled back into normalcy when they saw the world did not turn upside down. We also put each other as spouse or next of kin when filliing out paperwork. Usually we are then approached with curiosity and nothing more. We do not sport the fact we are married no more than a strait couple unless asked or are in one of these above situations but we feel that if we change a few minds by being a good example, we have accomplished the world. Maybe it will stop a few more people from voting for discrimination in Florida 2008

TampaTalon ^">

What an excellent post. You are on the front lines! You are right, this really is a battle of changing one mind at a time. I would add that it is also a task of healing one heart at a time. If a consensus is reached in an area, municipality, county, or state, then there is a much higher likelihood that those voters in that area wil support Same Sex Marriage. My hope is that eventually, SSM comes to a vote in the various jurisdictions around the country. It will fail in some areas and pass in others. But in the regions where SSM is passed by the voters, it becomes much safer from recension by groups like the religious conservatives.

[Artiste]

Thanks very mcuh tampatalon!

Your comment and details are so warm and precious to me! And surely to others! Even straights will understand that, and you both too!!  It could be that you will also SAVE lives of those who want, fear or destroy gay life or living!! Your life carries on beautifully in wondrous ways, that way!

As I remember the Montreal Salon organiser two years ago, she asked me in front of persons if I was gay and she got yes from me... in a way, as she said that she felt that I was open to that! She added that she knew of gays in her life and that she accepted that! But I had a hard time to her next question... which disrupted my friendship with my long time gay buddy (Ronald), unfortunately!

And this year, her helper... surprised me a lot! He came to get her paintings in the gallery where I was exhibiting my paintings I created... but he was wearing high heel shoes like a lady. So I was puzzled! And at another time, I did ask him a question.

One never knows another persons sexual preference? !!

Like you say, curiosity in your cherished milieu was accepted... eventually! Pray that is so in another milieu? I heard of others... gladly!

More of your life? Gay mariage... and help!! Please...

hugs!

[tampatalon]

Artiste, Here is a little story that is funny and amusing. My precription card at work has me printed on as member 01 but my husband is NOT listed on the card but is member 02. I have asked for a card with his name on it because when he needs a prescription he is not on the printed card so I have to explain to the drugstore that we are gay. The precription card company computer system is not equiped to handle the domestic partner designation. I explained it to my employer that we should not have to declare our sexual relationship at the drugstore and they can not fix it.
So for now, "Hey we are gay and need this prescription filled".......LOL

TampaTalon ^">

[Artiste]

I read that tampatalon!

Will they ever add the two names  (yours and his) on each card??

Hugs!

[brokeplex]

Artiste, Here is a little story that is funny and amusing. My precription card at work has me printed on as member 01 but my husband is NOT listed on the card but is member 02. I have asked for a card with his name on it because when he needs a prescription he is not on the printed card so I have to explain to the drugstore that we are gay. The precription card company computer system is not equiped to handle the domestic partner designation. I explained it to my employer that we should not have to declare our sexual relationship at the drugstore and they can not fix it.
So for now, "Hey we are gay and need this prescription filled".......LOL

TampaTalon ^">

thanks Tampa for sharing that, I think as society adjusts to out relationships and marriages there will be many such moments. My hope is that times will be different for the generations ahead and all of our "adjustment" issues will just be historical for them.

[Artiste]

Yes, que sera, sera, whatever will be will be, as the song say!!

Us gay men must try in many ways to have gay marriages!!


And have that and much more be accepted by all persons!!

I think that we must also elaborate more on the values of gay marriages, here on Bettermost?

Hugs!!

[tampatalon]

thanks Tampa for sharing that, I think as society adjusts to out relationships and marriages there will be many such moments. My hope is that times will be different for the generations ahead and all of our "adjustment" issues will just be historical for them.

Those that came before us got us this far and it seems ta me that it is a "right of passage" that
we now bare the responsibilty of carrying the torch.

TampaTalon^">

[Artiste]

I like your flame of freedom tampatalon!

May we all do so too like you!

Any more info?

Hugs!

[ifyoucantfixit]

         The cards obviously need to have a designation...spouse..or dependant   .good enough........no gay no wife. nada...

[Artiste]

Is spouse theword? How many words can be used?

Maybe we can use another word: like partner??

Hugs!

[tampatalon]

         The cards obviously need to have a designation...spouse..or dependant   .good enough........no gay no wife. nada...

The medical card say dependant and the prescription card just drops the name right off. When I renew the insurance each year they put me under "married" for medical and use domestic partner vision and dental. Its just a matter of getting a uniform designation. I am just thankful they are progressive enuff to offer the coverage. I also noticed when checking into the local hospital they now give the option to designate who will manage your care just "in case" and it does not have to be a relative. More progress!

TampaTalon^">

[tampatalon]

Is spouse theword? How many words can be used?

Maybe we can use another word: like partner??

Hugs!

The optimal word I guess depends where ya live. When we got married in Canada we were both Grooms and Spouses, Starting on the drive back its the same in New York because the marriage is not invalidated by law. In New Jersey its Civil Union but I dont know how its is referred.

TampaTalon^">

[Artiste]

Thanks tampatalon!

Excuse me for being puzzled!

May I ask: you were married in Canada legally, but you were both grooms and spouses?? Really?

Was that you choices?? Or is that the law in Canada that you are BOTH grooms and spouses??

Hugs!

[tampatalon]

Thanks tampatalon!

Excuse me for being puzzled!

May I ask: you were married in Canada legally, but you were both grooms and spouses?? Really?

Was that you choices?? Or is that the law in Canada that you are BOTH grooms and spouses??

Hugs!

Aritste, The applcation for marriage says we are "Applicants" not Bride and Groom

The "Request for Marriage Certificate" Form 11078 which can be found after drilling down at www.gov.on.ca asks for the information of (Grooms/Brides) in all Boxes so it is grammatically correct.

So ta answer yer question, Yes we were both Grooms and now we are spouses as termed by Ontario Law.

TampaTalon^">

[Artiste]

Thanks tampatalon!

Boy, oh boy!! I am more puzzled!!

Instead of spouses and grooms, why don't they have the word: partners?? As a choice??

You think that too??

Hugs!

[tampatalon]

Thanks tampatalon!

Boy, oh boy!! I am more puzzled!!

Instead of spouses and grooms, why don't they have the word: partners?? As a choice??

You think that too??

Artiste! I am so glad you asked this question. Same-sex marriage in Canada is EQUAL to opposite-sex marriage in all manner. IMO opinion by using a different partner term would lessen this equality, therefore we are both grooms. I am very proud that were grooms. We did have bestman and a groomsmaid instead of a bridesmaid. I consider my self married with my rights denied here in Florida.

That you so much Artiste, you are forwarding the cause by asking such good questions!

TampaTalon^">

[Artiste]

Thanks tampatalon!

I understand that now and thank you very much!

Do you think that such forms could be changed in Ontario as well as in some state like yours??

Hugs!

[brokeplex]

Thanks tampatalon!

I understand that now and thank you very much!

Do you think that such forms could be changed in Ontario as well as in some state like yours??

Hugs!

Artiste, your confusion is natural. Most US citizens including the people most affected by the issue do not really understand the present transitional state in the US over the issue of same sex marriage. Because of the US Federal system, some states and localities have moved far in the direction of granting equal status to same sex couples, some have made some progress, other localities (the vast majority) have made no movement at all in that direction. So,right now it is still a crazy quilt of different laws and administrative procedures in different states and localities.

 Historically, this has been the process in all great social and civil rights movements in US history. Example, some states granted women the right to vote decades before it was made constitutionally legal by Federal action. Another example, some states forbade discrimination against Blacks a over century before non-discrimination was mandated by Federal law, meanwhile othe states had vicious laws restricting the activity and rights of Blacks.

My suspicion is Same Sex marriage will follow a similar path, certainly not taking a century to fully implement, but it will take time for a general consensus to emerge nation-wide and for the laws to become uniform across the US.

I want to thank "Tampatalon" for sharing his life with us. He is on the front lines, testing the laws letting us know how employers and governmental agencies are handling the issue right now. I can see similar scenarios developing for same sex couples all over the country as this decade unfolds.

[Artiste]

Thanks brokeplex! Thanks tampatalon! Thanks to others too!!!

I sure wish that those thoughts and laws came sooner!

I want to know more about gay mariage... any more facts about it?

Hugs!

[tampatalon]

Thanks brokeplex! Thanks tampatalon! Thanks to others too!!!

I sure wish that those thoughts and laws came sooner!

I want to know more about gay mariage... any more facts about it?

Hugs!

Artiste, For what ever reason, statistics from Canada and Massachusett show that the gals are out pacing the
dudes having more or less 65% Bride-Bride Ceremonies compared to the 35% for Goom-Groom Ceremonies. Does this
suggest that the guys are afraid of commitment?I wonder if we compared this to strait males unmarried.
I certainly hope it would not compare to anything because would this suggest that 65 % of males are afraid of
commitment in general, strait and gay or dose this indicate they cannot find that special partner. Maybe someone can give us a clue on this non-commitment issue/or cannot find the right partner?


TampaTalon^">

[Artiste]

Thanks tampatalon!

I suppose that gay guys are more either afraid or do not know that much if not at all about gay marriages??

I know, that recently, when I talked with another gay guy about gay marriages, he said that it is better to live alone!!  He repeated that often. I could not nor now understand him. Some gay guys like to live alone?
As a must somehow to live alone?

Guess much need to be done to educate about the values of gay marriages?

Hugs!

[brokeplex]

Thanks tampatalon!

I suppose that gay guys are more either afraid or do not know that much if not at all about gay marriages??

I know, that recently, when I talked with another gay guy about gay marriages, he said that it is better to live alone!!  He repeated that often. I could not nor now understand him. Some gay guys like to live alone?
As a must somehow to live alone?

Guess much need to be done to educate about the values of gay marriages?

Hugs!

D.L. and I have separate residences. I wouldn't have it any other way. We see each other frequently, but he has his own house. I think that men and women do approach the concept of marriage differently. And men think differently about marriage at different stages of their lives. I want to eventuall marry D.L., I want the legal protection that marriage will grant in regard to any number of issues. D.L. has no interest in that type of ceremony or legality now. He will as he grows older though. But, I know men my age and older who do not agree with me at all on this. They strongly support Same Sex marriage, but do not desire to marry a partner at this time.

[Artiste]

D.L. and I have separate residences. I wouldn't have it any other way. We see each other frequently, but he has his own house. I think that men and women do approach the concept of marriage differently. And men think differently about marriage at different stages of their lives. I want to eventuall marry D.L., I want the legal protection that marriage will grant in regard to any number of issues. D.L. has no interest in that type of ceremony or legality now. He will as he grows older though. But, I know men my age and older who do not agree with me at all on this. They strongly support Same Sex marriage, but do not desire to marry a partner at this time. 
 
Wow, thanks brokeplex! So, will same sex marriages be more popular among young gay men?

Guess that you hope to get married! I pray that you will... as you like!

You feel that I will too?

Hugs!

[brokeplex]

D.L. and I have separate residences. I wouldn't have it any other way. We see each other frequently, but he has his own house. I think that men and women do approach the concept of marriage differently. And men think differently about marriage at different stages of their lives. I want to eventuall marry D.L., I want the legal protection that marriage will grant in regard to any number of issues. D.L. has no interest in that type of ceremony or legality now. He will as he grows older though. But, I know men my age and older who do not agree with me at all on this. They strongly support Same Sex marriage, but do not desire to marry a partner at this time. 
 
Wow, thanks brokeplex! So, will same sex marriages be more popular among young gay men?

Guess that you hope to get married! I pray that you will... as you like!

You feel that I will too?

Hugs!

I'm not sure about the eventual popularity of marriage between men. But,I think that we are all fighting for the option right now. That is the most important thing, that society recognize the equality in our relationships. The actual implementation later on is anybody's guess. I suspect that many gay men both young, middle aged and older will opt for a marriage,some will not. I think we see parallels in the straight community right now. Some couples marry, others don't.

[Artiste]

Thanks brokeplex!

You say this: I'm not sure about the eventual popularity of marriage between men. But,I think that we are all fighting for the option right now. That is the most important thing, that society recognize the equality in our relationships. The actual implementation later on is anybody's guess. I suspect that many gay men both young, middle aged and older will opt for a marriage,some will not. I think we see parallels in the straight community right now. Some couples marry, others don't.

I am perplexed about gay marriage too... as some are. However, I am learning about it. Even leaning towards it. I am all for pro gay marriage for persons who desire it! And get it!!

It must become an option as you say! We, gay men, need such freedom too; otherwise, our human and civil rights are not or not much respected, as in the hospitals, governments, societies, etc. !!

Yes, indeed some straights marry (I had written merry) women, some do not! Likewise, some gays will marry another gay man, while another will not! At least, that will be a choice  between two gay persons!! Right?

Hugs!

[brokeplex]

Thanks brokeplex!

You say this: I'm not sure about the eventual popularity of marriage between men. But,I think that we are all fighting for the option right now. That is the most important thing, that society recognize the equality in our relationships. The actual implementation later on is anybody's guess. I suspect that many gay men both young, middle aged and older will opt for a marriage,some will not. I think we see parallels in the straight community right now. Some couples marry, others don't.

I am perplexed about gay marriage too... as some are. However, I am learning about it. Even leaning towards it. I am all for pro gay marriage for persons who desire it! And get it!!

It must become an option as you say! We, gay men, need such freedom too; otherwise, our human and civil rights are not or not much respected, as in the hospitals, governments, societies, etc. !!

Yes, indeed some straights marry (I had written merry) women, some do not! Likewise, some gays will marry another gay man, while another will not! At least, that will be a choice  between two gay persons!! Right?

Hugs!

Exactly, as human beings we deserve the option, we deserve the choice!

[Artiste]

Thanks brokeplex!

As you say, we, gay men, deserve the choice if one wants to get into a gay marriage!!

So do such women, may I add!!

Inorder for that to be considered, we need maybe to know more about it?

Hugs!

[tampatalon]

Thanks brokeplex!

As you say, we, gay men, deserve the choice if one wants to get into a gay marriage!!

So do such women, may I add!!

Inorder for that to be considered, we need maybe to know more about it?

Hugs!

Artiste, For those interested as to what is going on with gay marriage and other gay rights issues,
www.hrc.org has good information on national news and a blow by blow (pardon da pun) on each state.HRC is quite an excellant reference and it also has ways to get involved.

TampaTalon^">

[Artiste]

Thanks tampatalon!

Happy that you cite that site: www.hrc.org

Any others?

Hugs!

[Artiste]

Did anyone find talks about gay marriages, in these pre-elections?

Democrates, Republicans, others parties???

Au revoir,
hugs!

[CellarDweller]

Did anyone find talks about gay marriages, in these pre-elections?

Democrates, Republicans, others parties???

Jon Corzine Will Sign Gay-Marriage Bill, But Won't Give Republicans a Talking Point



Governor Jon Corzine of New Jersey is frustrating gay activists because he is hesitant to get moving on a bill to change the state's civil-unions policy to one of flat-out marriage equality. After a report was released yesterday that says civil unions in the state are not equal to marriages, the state legislature is under pressure to change the law. Civil unions have been allowed since 2006 in New Jersey after the State Supreme Court ruled that gay couples should receive the same legal rights and protections as married straight couples.


Full story here.


http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/02/jon_corzine_will_sign_gay_marr.html

[Artiste]

Thanks very much CellarDwellar!

What does that mean?

That he will put it through as a law no matter at what cost as to increase civil law for gays?

Am I reading this right?

Is he gay, do you know?

Au revoir,
hugs!

[brokeplex]

Jon Corzine Will Sign Gay-Marriage Bill, But Won't Give Republicans a Talking Point



Governor Jon Corzine of New Jersey is frustrating gay activists because he is hesitant to get moving on a bill to change the state's civil-unions policy to one of flat-out marriage equality. After a report was released yesterday that says civil unions in the state are not equal to marriages, the state legislature is under pressure to change the law. Civil unions have been allowed since 2006 in New Jersey after the State Supreme Court ruled that gay couples should receive the same legal rights and protections as married straight couples.


Full story here.


http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/02/jon_corzine_will_sign_gay_marr.html

interesting points made in the article, I'm not so sure that McCain would make a marriage a major wedge issue in the fall campaign.

 but the article  implies something that I noticed looking at state polls on Politico. NJ may be up for grabs for either the Repubs or the Dems in the fall. Now this is a major development, as NJ has long been a reliable Demo state in Presidential election.

[Artiste]

Thanks brokeplex!

What does McCain say about gays?

Did?

Clearly would do if elected?

You know?

Hugs!