TOTW 11/07: How will moviegoers view BBM 30 years from now?

[Penthesilea]

Howdy y'all 

After we skipped last week due to my vacation, we're back with a brand-new TOTW. I'm happy to announce it has been suggested by a BetterMostian (*hint, hint* --> it makes your moderators happy to get you involved in suggesting topics, so don't be shy  ).


How will moviegoers view BBM 30 years from now?


Many social commentary movies seem rather dated as time goes by. How will it be for BBM? Will it still be praised and appreciated as the cinematic masterpiece it is? Or will it seem just as dated as some older movies do now? Will people smile and shake their heads in disbelief when they're told this movie was regarded as groundbreaking and controversial? What do you think?

In 30 years it will be the year 2037.  Oh. 

[Brown Eyes]

I think and hope that BBM is perceived as a classic romantic tragedy... a modern-day Romeo and Juliet type drama, but of course with gay protagonists.

And, 30 years from now I truly believe that major motionpictures that feature gay main characters will be much less of a rarity and BBM will probably continue to be seen as a groundbreaking film in helping to establish this trend.

[Scott6373]

Honestly?  I think that our collective reaction to BBM is a direct result of the societal pressure that we face now.  The intense emotional reaction is based on the climate of oppression that GLBT folk currently live under.  If that remains unchanged in 30 years (God I hope not), then I assume the reaction will be much the same.  If society progresses more toward inclusion, then the film may be viewed as a somewhat soapy melodrama.

[Jeff Wrangler]

If society progresses more toward inclusion, then the film may be viewed as a somewhat soapy melodrama.

Yeah, like that's gonna happen in thirty years.   

I was just thinking earlier this morning that what I expect will happen, in what time frame I don't know, is that homophobia will become like racism. It will go underground in mainstream society. It will never go away or be eliminated, but eventually overt homophobia will become socially unacceptable. I doubt this will happen in my life time.

But to answer the question: I think critics and historians will continue to view BBM as the groundbreaking film that it is.

[Brown Eyes]

But to answer the question: I think critics and historians will continue to view BBM at the groundbreaking film that it is.

Yes, I think will definitely be the case regardless of what happens politically and socially in the real world.  I really do think it will continue to stand up to many/most of the classic tragic romances in cinematic history.

[loneleeb3]

I think critics and historians will continue to view BBM at the groundbreaking film that it is.

I have to agree. It think this will be looked back upon as one of the greates films of our time ecspecially in the gay community.
I think it will be like Gone With the Wind or To Kill  Mockingbird. People will watch it and find it hard to believe that people actually had to live under those condidions.
I'll be 70 and I will always remember the film as a catalyst for change in my life.

[Jeff Wrangler]

Yes, I think will definitely be the case regardless of what happens politically and socially in the real world.  I really do think it will continue to stand up to many/most of the classic tragic romances in cinematic history.

I agree, Amanda. A tragedy it is, a "somewhat soapy melodrama" it isn't.

[Scott6373]

I agree, Amanda. A tragedy it is, a "somewhat soapy melodrama" it isn't.

Isn't a wealth of opinions a great treasure to have?

[loneleeb3]

Isn't a wealth of opinions a great treasure to have?

Yep, I think there'd be a whole lot less posts if everyone had the same opinion! LOL

[Brown Eyes]

Well, there are (at least) two aspects to a technical/general definition of a melodrama.  One is that emotions are exaggerated in the acting style and the second is that the emotional tone of the film is driven by music (or the music/score is fundamental to influencing the emotional impact of the film).

I truly don't think that BBM falls into the first part of the definition.  In fact, I think the emotional aspects of the different characters are usually very understated.

But as far as having the music play a fundamental role in the emotional direction of the film, I think that's pretty accurate in the case of BBM.

Melodrama isn't necessarily a put-down or a negative thing. There are lots of great, classic melodramas.  But, it does has some pretty specific aspects as a genre.

In general, I think BBM is much too subtle to really fall into the definition of melodrama.

[Scott6373]

Perhaps it's the fact that I can't sit through it again.  I figure if I find it tedious at this point, what will it be like when I am approcahing 80?

[loneleeb3]

Perhaps it's the fact that I can't sit through it again.  I figure if I find it tedious at this point, what will it be like when I am approcahing 80?

You need to watch it with someone! 

[Scott6373]

You need to watch it with someone! 

What difference would that make?  I have watched it with many someone's

[Jeff Wrangler]

Perhaps it's the fact that I can't sit through it again.  I figure if I find it tedious at this point, what will it be like when I am approcahing 80?

You'll just have to use the "pause" button more often so you can get up to go to the bathroom. 

[loneleeb3]

What difference would that make?  I have watched it with many someone's

You need to watch it with a special someone! 

[Scott6373]

You need to watch it with a special someone! 

Hmmm...that's a concept, but back to the topic of the thread.  I think the film will be viewed as a finely crafted piece of cinema, but again, I have to remove myself from the emotional reaction and view the film for it's value as a catalyst for change.  I think there are cinematic endeavors that did a better job at exposing the horrors of homophobia.  I don't think that was ever the intent of the filmmakers on BBM anyway.

[Shakesthecoffecan]

I have seen it with strangers, I have seen it by myself, I have seen it with brokies, on the big screen and the small. I have gotten together with brokies and we have not watched it. It is different every situation.

We could look to a couple of other examples, one being Boys in the Band, which was released in 1970. Kerry has posted much about this film. It was ground breaking in a number of ways as its intent, as I see it, was to portray homosexuals in a positive light. I think it still holds up after nearly......jezus...40 years....

Another example is Making Love, from 1982. It caused a stir at the time, as I remember (I was too young to remember BITB coming out) and it had an effect on the larger population. I watched it then (in 1984 when it was on TV) and I saw it again about a year ago and thought it was as dull as a box of plastic forks.

Brokeback, I predict, will be seen as a catalyst for change. Its loss at the Oscars will certainly ensure its celebrity, as if it needed it.  I think it will remain a classic tragedy along the lines of To Kill A Mocking Bird.

[Brown Eyes]

I agree that the Oscar loss, in a bizarre way, can be seen as good for BBM in terms of its long term legacy.

[loneleeb3]

it's value as a catalyst for change.

It sure as hell changed me!
Thats how me end up here!

[Jeff Wrangler]

I think there are cinematic endeavors that did a better job at exposing the horrors of homophobia.  I don't think that was ever the intent of the filmmakers on BBM anyway.

You're kidding. ... Right? 

[Jeff Wrangler]

We could look to a couple of other examples, one being Boys in the Band, which was released in 1970. Kerry has posted much about this film. It was ground breaking in a number of ways as its intent, as I see it, was to portray homosexuals in a positive light.

That's interesting. I've never actually seen the film, but I read the play in college--though that was a long time ago. However, I've seen this film--and play--denounced for portraying gay men as bitchy queens with horrible lives who end up alone.

Maybe it all depends on your perspective. 

[Scott6373]

You're kidding. ... Right? 

No not at all.  I didn't see and don't see it as a socially relevent film.  It is a wonderfull piece of art, and as close to a  perfectly crafted as a film can be, but if they meant for this film to act as a catalyst for change, it had to have been directed toward gay people and not toward those we wish to change.

[loneleeb3]

I think Torch Song Trilogy really shows the homophobia gay people face.

[Scott6373]

I think Torch Song Trilogy really shows the homophobia gay people face.

Catalyst Films?  (regardless of inherent worth)

Making Love
Angels in America
Lontime Companion
Philadelphia
The Laramie Project

[Shakesthecoffecan]

No not at all.  I didn't see and don't see it as a socially relevent film.  It is a wonderfull piece of art, and as close to a  perfectly crafted as a film can be, but if they meant for this film to act as a catalyst for change, it had to have been directed toward gay people and not toward those we wish to change.

Wow. You got a point their Scott.

I guess if we are gone change the world, we gotta start with ourselves, huh?

[Scott6373]

Wow. You got a point their Scott.

I guess if we are gone change the world, we gotta start with ourselves, huh?

Give the man a cupie doll and a kiss on the cheek   

[Shakesthecoffecan]

I think Torch Song Trilogy really shows the homophobia gay people face.

I agree, and I recall Proulx saying her story was about the effects of rural homophobia, which is how it effected me. So many of these stories have involved queerfolks in the big city. I think that is one way Brokeback will be remembered: it showed rural homophobia, the story being published a year before the death of Matthew Shepard in Wyoming.

[Shakesthecoffecan]

Give the man a cupie doll and a kiss on the cheek   

Oh the things I could come up with and get totally OT. 

[loneleeb3]

I agree, and I recall Proulx saying her story was about the effects of rural homophobia, which is how it effected me. So many of these stories have involved queerfolks in the big city. I think that is one way Brokeback will be remembered: it showed rural homophobia, the story being published a year before the death of Matthew Shepard in Wyoming.

Wow! I had no idea it was a year before that.
Boy, if that didn't drive the point home I don't know what would.
That poor sweet boy!  

[Shakesthecoffecan]

Wow! I had no idea it was a year before that.
Boy, if that didn't drive the point home I don't know what would.
That poor sweet boy!  

Proulx herself was called to be on the jury for the trial of his murderers. She didn't have to serve.

[loneleeb3]

Proulx herself was called to be on the jury for the trial of his murderers. She didn't have to serve.

Go Figure!

[Penthesilea]

Proulx herself was called to be on the jury for the trial of his murderers. She didn't have to serve.

I've read this before. To be honest, to me it seems a bit much of a coincidence and it's hard for me to believe. It just fits too neatly, it has a touch of an urban (or rural, in this case) legend to me.
I've read people talk about this bit of trivia repeated times. But what I've never read so far is a direct quote of Annie Proulx where she attests to this story. Which of course doesn't mean it doesn't exist - and I'd be happy to get a link to it.

I don't say it's not true (how could I?) - but I'm sceptic.

[Shakesthecoffecan]

I think, and I'll have to check when I get home to be sure, but I think it is in the Story to Screenplay book she speaks about it.

Man I been at this so long it is starting to get fuzzy.

[Jeff Wrangler]

No not at all.  I didn't see and don't see it as a socially relevent film.

So you're saying this film is socially irrelevant?

It is a wonderfull piece of art, and as close to a  perfectly crafted as a film can be, but if they meant for this film to act as a catalyst for change, it had to have been directed toward gay people and not toward those we wish to change.

You don't think it can--and does--do both? There seems to be anecdotal evidence that it does.

[Penthesilea]

I think, and I'll have to check when I get home to be sure, but I think it is in the Story to Screenplay book she speaks about it.

Man I been at this so long it is starting to get fuzzy.

Nope, not in the STS book. Must have been somewhere else.

[Scott6373]

So you're saying this film is socially irrelevant?

No.  I am saying that I personally don't think this film advanced the fight for gay rights in my life.  In fact, based on the jokes and ribbing I have heard since its release, quite the opposite.

You don't think it can--and does--do both? There seems to be anecdotal evidence that it does.

Again, in my personal experience, it did very little to shed light on the struggles and  horrors that I have faced as a gay man.  No one has come up to me and said, "Was it like that for you?"  They have however said, "You gonna become a cowboy now?"

This film will always be important to me for the humanist teachings it portrays:  for the lessons about personal accountability, and ownership of ones life and life choices, but, it is not important to me for the boost it gave to my fight for equal rights under the law.

[Shakesthecoffecan]

Nope, not in the STS book. Must have been somewhere else.

Your right, let me work on this and see if it can be confirmed or not.

[Shakesthecoffecan]

Okay here is an article in the Village Voice that mentions it:

http://www.villagevoice.com/film/0548,winter,70454,20.html

However it would be good to have some other confirmation of it, I will work on it some more this evening.

[Jeff Wrangler]

No.  I am saying that I personally don't think this film advanced the fight for gay rights in my life.  In fact, based on the jokes and ribbing I have heard since its release, quite the opposite.

Again, in my personal experience, it did very little to shed light on the struggles and  horrors that I have faced as a gay man.  No one has come up to me and said, "Was it like that for you?"  They have however said, "You gonna become a cowboy now?"

This film will always be important to me for the humanist teachings it portrays:  for the lessons about personal accountability, and ownership of ones life and life choices, but, it is not important to me for the boost it gave to my fight for equal rights under the law.

Well, just because you feel it hasn't done anything to advance gay rights in your life doesn't mean it hasn't done anything--period.

[Kd5000]

BBM is a solid film with great acting and a solid storyline.  It's also a unique film.  Will there ever be another film that combine same sex love in the 1960's west. Hence, I don't think this "genre" is in any danger of being overdone. So I hope it will still be considered a cinematic landmark for decades to come.   

I'd like to hope that in 2035, ppl still love this film and find it powerful and heartbreaking... However, I'd also like to hope that ppl will sigh and say what's the big deal, i.e.  homosexuality will not be such a taboo subject in films in that time period. 

DO hope there is never a remake.  Sometimes a classic is best left untouched. By 2035 Hollywood will start looking at successful films in the first decade of the 21rst century and wonder if BBM would be an excellent candidate for a remake.

I do worry that as society gets faster, BBM will lose some appeal as many will find it a very slow paced movie.

Brokeback Mountain was a landmark film.  The only mainstream gay film I could compare it with would be MAKING LOVE.  Sure, there have been films like THE BIRD CAGE or PHILADELPHIA, but they weren't really about same sex love or desires.  In PHILADELPHIA, his relationship with his lover was just so downplayed, so passionless.  THE BIRD CAGE, I didn't even go to see it in the theater as it rehashed every sterotype possible.

In MAKING LOVE, you have a successful doctor with a nice wife, who seems to have it all, but leaves her for a MAN! Even then, it's more of a coming out story then a gay love story.  However, given how Hollywood used to portray gays as being swishy and holding marginal jobs, MAKING LOVE was an icebreaker. Unfortunately, it was still a mediocre film and didn't garner much attn at the boxoffice. Many did watch it on HBO or SHOWTIME from what I remember.

[Jeff Wrangler]

In MAKING LOVE, you have a successful doctor with a nice wife, who seems to have it all, but leaves her for a MAN! Even then, it's more of a coming out story then a gay love story.  However, given how Hollywood used to portray gays as being swishy and holding marginal jobs, MAKING LOVE was an icebreaker. Unfortunately, it was still a mediocre film and didn't garner much attn at the boxoffice. Many did watch it on HBO or SHOWTIME from what I remember.

And he ends up with corner apartment in a Manhattan highrise, a job at Sloan-Kettering, and a lover. That's really realistic, isn't it?

[Shakesthecoffecan]

Yeah, in some ways I see what Scott is saying. I took my friend Carol to see it and as soon as it was over she says "So was Ennis gay?" I wonder if those people who asked if you were going to be a cowboy now had actually seen it.

I think there is a lot of anecdotal evidence, as Jeff pointed out, of its effect upon the larger world, if mostly among families with gay members, or people who will later face a loved one coming out, they will remember this story. 

[Kd5000]

Well nobody has been that tactless to me. For one thing, they know I had cattle and I DON'T wanta be a cowboy.  Just not my thing...  

I've heard only good stories from straight ppl who have seen BBM.  Some rather serious discussions in the workplace among my coworkers.  And I've heard many good stories from ppl who've worked in homophobic environments who've had colleagues who went to see BBM to see what all the fuss was about.  Their colleagues had somewhat of an awakening. . .

If you live in a red state where homosexuality is rarely talked about (unless it's a CAL or NY story) either in state govt or in the local media, perhaps BBM had a bigger impact.

[Fran]

Okay here is an article in the Village Voice that mentions it:

http://www.villagevoice.com/film/0548,winter,70454,20.html

However it would be good to have some other confirmation of it, I will work on it some more this evening.

Truman, this may be what you're looking for:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/books/a-faithful-take-on-love-and-hate/2005/12/29/1135732684438.html?page=2 

It contains a direct quote from Annie Proulx regarding the jury service:

After a screening of the film, there was a question-and-answer session with Proulx. "The story began in 1963," said a woman from the audience. "Do you think things are better now, in terms of attitudes?"

"I wish," Proulx said. "But one year after the story was published, Matthew Shepard was killed less than [48 kilometres] from where I live. I was called to be on the jury for one of the killers."

[jstephens9]

Wow. You got a point their Scott.

I guess if we are gone change the world, we gotta start with ourselves, huh?

I agree. I don't see BBM as a film about homophobia unless we mean homophobia against oneself. If you think about it,  the only shows of outside homophobia are when Ennis talks about the rancher that was killed with the tire iron that his father showed him and his vision of how Jack was killed. The rest of the movie rests on Ennis' own fear of how others will see him if they knew. Granted, more than likely, others would not approve, but that is never actually shown. There are indications of homophobia, but the other characters never come out and say things against homosexuality. Even Alma's "Jack Nasty" doesn't show much more than jealousy. She could have said a lot worse about Jack and Ennis. That's my thoughts anyway.

[jstephens9]

DO hope there is never a remake.  Sometimes a classic is best left untouched. By 2035 Hollywood will start looking at successful films in the first decade of the 21rst century and wonder if BBM would be an excellent candidate for a remake.

I sure do hope there is not a remake. That sure does seem to be a sure way to destroy a movie (or even a tv show).

[Shakesthecoffecan]

I agree. I don't see BBM as a film about homophobia unless we mean homophobia against oneself. If you think about it,  the only shows of outside homophobia are when Ennis talks about the rancher that was killed with the tire iron that his father showed him and his vision of how Jack was killed. The rest of the movie rests on Ennis' own fear of how others will see him if they knew. Granted, more than likely, others would not approve, but that is never actually shown. There are indications of homophobia, but the other characters never come out and say things against homosexuality. Even Alma's "Jack Nasty" doesn't show much more than jealousy. She could have said a lot worse about Jack and Ennis. That's my thoughts anyway.

I think you pretty well zeroed in on it there Jack. I can really see where most of that struggle took place in Ennis' head.

[Jeff Wrangler]

I think you pretty well zeroed in on it there Jack. I can really see where most of that struggle took place in Ennis' head.

In Ennis's head or out, none of this negates Annie's well-known comment, in "Getting Movied," that "Brokeback Mountain" is a story about the destructive effect of rural homophobia.

[Shakesthecoffecan]

"I wish," Proulx said. "But one year after the story was published, Matthew Shepard was killed less than [48 kilometres] from where I live. I was called to be on the jury for one of the killers."[/i]

Thank you for finding that Fran, I knew I remembered it from somewhere.

[Kd5000]

Does the homophobia need to be verbalized for it to exist??  No doubt there were and still are alot of unspoken rules.  Jack and Ennis are both closeted.   What would have happend if they has lived together or at least been more open about their relationship.   Would Ennis have been allowed to see his daughters if he was living with a man?   Would they have been harassed by their neighbors. Would someone  have gone out one night and shot their livestock if they did have a cattle and calf operation.  No doubt they could have faced social ostracizing or worse. Best bet would have been to move to Denver... That wasn't going to happen.

Ennis and Jack lived in very ignorant times.  No doubt they had their share of internalized homophobia as they both can't deal with the queer label.

[Jeff Wrangler]

Does the homophobia need to be verbalized for it to exist??  No doubt there were and still are alot of unspoken rules.  Jack and Ennis are both closeted.   What would have happend if they has lived together or at least been more open about their relationship.   Would Ennis have been allowed to see his daughters if he was living with a man?   Would they have been harassed by their neighbors. Would someone  have gone out one night and shot their livestock if they did have a cattle and calf operation.  No doubt they could have faced social ostracizing or worse. Best bet would have been to move to Denver... That wasn't going to happen.

Ennis and Jack lived in very ignorant times.  No doubt they had their share of internalized homophobia as they both can't deal with the queer label.

That's sorta my point. They lived in a very homophobic society, which bred the internalized homophobia, particularly in Ennis.

[ifyoucantfixit]

        Well I think that the movie has already softened some of the issues that it presented.  Seeing the
acceptance, even popularity for gay relationships being presented.  They are now on television in daytime.
It is at the time of day that people of all ages, and lifestyles can see it..That to me has to be a great
advance..(In only two years. ) I think that in 30 years it will be as commonplace as mixed marriages, and
sex before marriage, or as was once called, "living in sin."  Those are a lot of the changes that have
been made in the past 30 years. Now I think since BBM has become the frontrunner in making this
acceptable.  It will always be accepted as ground breaking.  But as always though the kids will just wonder '
what the big fuss is about...They will want to see a gay love affair with more realistic sex,  no clothes and
that other not sex kind of sex being shown..
          30 years is a long time at the fast pace we live these days....

[JT]

I think and hope it will become a great clasic romance/tragedy like "Gone with the Wind".  I don't think it matters on how progressive society will be, this movie will still be a ground breaking film.

[Artiste]

It may become a ground-making film, but it will remain anti-gay!! In more than one way!

More and more will see it as an anti-gay movie... unfortunately or fortunately.

I believe that it could and must be replaced by a better one still, and be pro-gay much more if it is a gay one now!!

The democratic countries (such as the USA, Canada, England and France, among others) are fast becoming un-democratic and will be ANTI-GAY unfortunately because of letting islamic so-called religion(s) con and rule us and destroy us (murder not only gays neither who will line up); I fear and see now!! Therefore, this BM movie will be NOT shown anymore in such islamic countries as will be the USA, Canada, England, and France!!

What do you think?

Hugs!

[David In Indy]

It may become a ground-making film, but it will remain anti-gay!! In more than one way!

More and more will see it as an anti-gay movie... unfortunately or fortunately.

I believe that it could and must be replaced by a better one still, and be pro-gay much more if it is a gay one now!!

The democratic countries (such as the USA, Canada, England and France, among others) are fast becoming un-democratic and will be ANTI-GAY unfortunately because of letting islamic so-called religion(s) con and rule us and destroy us (murder not only gays neither who will line up); I fear and see now!! Therefore, this BM movie will be NOT shown anymore in such islamic countries as will be the USA, Canada, England, and France!!

What do you think?

Hugs!

I honestly can't think of one thing that makes Brokeback Mountain anti-gay, Artiste. I really can't. 

[Artiste]

Thanks David!

You will ??

Hugs!

[Jeff Wrangler]

I honestly can't think of one thing that makes Brokeback Mountain anti-gay, Artiste. I really can't. 

Me, neither. 

[Artiste]

Come on... guys!!

It is nice to be dreaming of a DREAMY GAY WORLD!! But let's wake up to the reasons Annie and or the BM movie was made!! They talk about ANTI-GAY time then and NOW and the FUTURE!!

Review it?

Hugs!

[ifyoucantfixit]

      Artiste, are you misunderstanding the meaning of anti gay?   Confusing the term with homophobic.?  The
movie does show a great deal of that behavior and prejudice.  That basically is the object of the film.  To show
how two young men could be totally in love.  And not be able to make that love happen rightly, because
of homophobia....That is the whole point of the movie...
      Homophobia is a real and insidious behavior and thought..It hides its ugly head, until a fortutious chance
appears for it to act.  That is partly on the wane, and as you have said also the part that is rising is probably
very insidious and hidden.  Therefor very dangerous.  All we can do is educate, and try to change it as much
as we can...Changing one heart at a time...

[Artiste]

Thanks ifyoucantfixit!

I do think like you that to try to change one at a time... is a good way towards humanity!

However, there are also other means: one must demand laws, pass them and use them too; otherwise, criminals will murder more and more gays and get away with it, as too many do now in our democratic societies! And too much of that useless murderings is also in so-called social countries now, like the islamic ones who kill gay by lining them up!

The BM film is, I feel and I find, a warning against us gay men being murdered just because we are gay persons!! Indeed!! I do not see that as over-reaching the reserve of that movie? To me, the movie warns us of the anti-gays groups (like islam) being more and more important even in our democratic countries!!  Do you see that?

Hugs!

[Oregondoggie]

30 years from now....

It will be interesting to see what Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath Ledger will say about the film as the years pass.

I must admit that I'm NOT against a remake (or two or three or four) down the centuries... This story ranks among the finest and most important ever written.  If Romeo and Juliet get endlessly pawed over, why not Brokeback Mountain?  A new generation of actors.  Different nuances emphasized from the book.  And why not a great stage play that school drama departments can mount... endlessly bringing the story to life?

"As long as we can ride it..." 

[loneleeb3]

30 years from now....

It will be interesting to see what Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath Ledger will say about the film as the years pass.

I must admit that I'm NOT against a remake (or two or three or four) down the centuries... This story ranks among the finest and most important ever written.  If Romeo and Juliet get endlessly pawed over, why not Brokeback Mountain?  A new generation of actors.  Different nuances emphasized from the book.  And why not a great stage play that school drama departments can mount... endlessly bringing the story to life?

"As long as we can ride it..." 

What a great perspective! I never thought of it like that!

[Artiste]

Thanks Oregondoggie, and thanks loneleeb3!!

Surely this effort of making a somewhat male romeo and juliette, will continue, and BETTER ones can be made, as you say!!

WE, gay men, need better films than even the BM one!!

30 years from now... and NOW too!! Any ideas?

Hugs!!

[moremojo]

I don't care (at least not at the moment) to speculate on how this great film will be remembered or valued thirty years hence, but here is an article I just found online, in which the author, Gary Tooze of DVDBeaver, argues that Brokeback Mountain is one of the relatively few contemporary films likely to be cherished as works of art for the foreseeable future:

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/articles/sifting.htm

[Artiste]

Thanks moremojo!

He does detail the BM movie, to chart it as great and for a future!!

In the Mood for Love?? Is that same love between two men?

Hugs!

[moremojo]

In the Mood for Love?? Is that same love between two men?

No, that's a love story between a man and a woman.

[Artiste]

Oh! Thanks moremojo!

Any match to the BM movie?

Hugs!

[delalluvia]

30 years from now....

It will be interesting to see what Jake Gyllenhaal and Heath Ledger will say about the film as the years pass.

I must admit that I'm NOT against a remake (or two or three or four) down the centuries... This story ranks among the finest and most important ever written.  If Romeo and Juliet get endlessly pawed over, why not Brokeback Mountain?  A new generation of actors.  Different nuances emphasized from the book.  And why not a great stage play that school drama departments can mount... endlessly bringing the story to life?

"As long as we can ride it..." 

That would be awesome.

[Brown Eyes]

That would be awesome.

I agree, that it could be awesome.

There are already multiple versions of the story if you count both text versions (the New Yorker and Close Range versions), the film and the play in Europe... and now I guess this opera in NYC is in the works...  So, it seems like this phenomenon is already happening a bit.  I like the idea of the story being re-told and re-interpreted by different actors, etc. over the years.  I think anything that would keep the Brokeback story in circulation would probably be a positive thing.

[Artiste]

Hi to all!!


I wonder why so many, if not all of you, were so adamant on saying, to me, that you do not want any other BM movies, etc.; and, now, that you do??

Be assured that I am glad that some of you now want and accept some BM versions! Other versions, even a remake, till 30 years from now, can surely be helpful!! ?? You want one soon?

Hugs!

[KristinDaBomb]

I hope that it is still viewed as one of the greatest movies and helped paved the way to a better society than the one we live in today.

[Artiste]

30 years from now, maybe! As a gay frontier film or as an anti-gay one!!?? Or it will likely be burned by the so-called religion(s) like the islamic ones having taken over our democraties!!

The one called Compulsion done in the 1920's (1927?) is considered a gay film to-day? Maybe?!! But the then times did not dare discuss it, even too low voices of the lawyers in front of the judge, but the camera and the main actors did present it in form: called homosexuality then!!?? Even, if was based on fact, about the two gays who murdered! It was talked about again, like last year on TV, to-night this 2007!!

So will the BM movie be talked about the same way as Compulsion is now (60+ years after)? How?

Hugs!

[jstephens9]

It is very difficult to imagine how moviegoers will view BBM 30 years from now. I'm sure it will always remain a masterpiece to me as well as to most people here on the forum. One thing that I still find sad is that many people never bothered to see Brokeback and it wasn't necessarily because of any gay theme. Instead for some it had to do with the way the movie was portrayed by people such as the late night talk show hosts and others turning it into "the gay cowboy" movie. Many thought it was a comedy about gay cowboys. I will not go into my thoughts concerning the portrayal of it on SNL when Jake hosted. My thoughts on that have not been popular and are not relevant here except to say that I certainly hope that in 30 years and hopefully sooner people will realize that this is truly a classic movie and is by no means a comedy.

It is truly hard to predict what kinds of changes will occur in 30 years in relation to ideas about homosexuality and the like. Social change is many times slow to come. Someone pointed out that it may similar to how racism is now......underground. In viewing how prejudice and homophobia are now in areas where diversity and differing sexual orientations is supposed to be accepted I would tend to agree that this could be the case. Where I work is supposedly a gay friendly place where differing sexual orientations are celebrated and discrimination is not allowed. On the outside that all works fine, but it is obvious that homophobia and hatred are rampant once the cover is taken off and the jokes begin. Those who are out, in many cases, are not even aware that while people are nice to them to their face the jokes begin as soon as their backs are turned. Of course I live in the south where acceptance is not the rule of thumb anyway. If we move northward towards New York City where I recently was on one of the sightseeing Gray Line buses. I really thought it was great that the tour guide pointed out Christopher Street and that NYC loved to say that they completely accepted diversity and that their large gay population was a source of pride for them. That all sounded great and even made me feel good. However, I also know a fireman with the FDNY and that picture is not so crystal clear there. Upon closer inspection, I found out from him that he was actually quite afraid of the other firemen thinking he was gay. He had actually been joked with before about it and it is apparently not an uncommon practice among the department to make fun of gay people. The NYPD is no better. The guy with the FDNY, who is by the way not gay as far as I know, would be afraid of losing his job if the department thought he was gay. As far as I could tell San Francisco did seem to be accepting; however, I also didn't talk to any straight people about it. For some reason I feel that the homophobia may even exist there underground. I can't really say for sure.

So what I am getting to is that there is still a lot of change that needs to occur before Brokeback is looked at as "the way people used to think." We are still a long way from that. This is obvious when we realize that even in places which seem all accepting the jokes and homophobia are just beneath the surface. I wish I could see 30 years in the future and find that people are shocked by the way people are treated now and back in the days when Ennis and Jack lived. I truly hope that happens. It would be wonderful to know that it becomes celebrated that two people can love each other without it mattering what gender they happen to be. There are way too many problems in the world for people to spend useful their time on rather than condemning and making jokes of people for love.

[Artiste]

Thanks jstephens9!

I like very much your statement and views!

Belong too much pro-violence in the Brokeback Mountain movie as I see it, what I found mainly disconcerning (is that the word or is it discrediting?)... is that a great many ladies (and likely others too) see it MAINLY as these 2 men being BAD because they married ladies!! ??


What do you think of that? And you all?

Hugs!!

[KristinDaBomb]

Well, I am a bit late to reply to this, but I thought I might as well. I am a woman, but I don't think they are bad. While I do feel for the women (especially Alma, as she seemed heartbroken) I don't think it makes the men bad because they married women. What else could they have done? The time was horrible and unaccepting. It isn't great now, but it is a lot better.

Thanks jstephens9!

I like very much your statement and views!

Belong too much pro-violence in the Brokeback Mountain movie as I see it, what I found mainly disconcerning (is that the word or is it discrediting?)... is that a great many ladies (and likely others too) see it MAINLY as these 2 men being BAD because they married ladies!! ??


What do you think of that? And you all?

Hugs!!

[underdown]

............  It would be wonderful to know that it becomes celebrated that two people can love each other without it mattering what gender they happen to be. There are way too many problems in the world for people to spend useful their time on rather than condemning and making jokes of people for love.

That's a good thought, Jack. There was a time when problems in the world (such as major wars) brought people closer together. A lot of that was national 'mateship', though, and worked against acceptance of same gender romantic love.

In this age the idea of 'mateship' seems to have dwindled as we become more of a global community, where that attitude is seen to be out of step, and there is somewhat more knowledge and acceptance of others' beliefs and values. We have been educated to be more accepting that people are diverse, and it is necessary to train ourselves to think that way if we want to be a part of this world.

In 30 years time? Maybe BBM will be seen as just one example of the many different forms love takes.
By then, such acceptance that it's ok for anyone to love anyone may even be so commonplace that the movie will not have much of an audience.
In a way, that might be a good thing. Unless it meant that love in many forms was accepted to the point that it lost some of it's magic.
While love is something unique between two people, and a lot of folk just don't understand, it is something special, and isn't that part of why BBM is special ?
 

[Sandy]

I have been saddened, shocked and, quite frankly, disgusted at how my acquaintances and indeed, some of my friends have reacted. 

My husband and I watched it together.  He enjoyed the film immensely, however did not have the same hugely powerful reaction that I had.  He has watched it with me on many occasions since, and we have discussed and debated the film over many a bottle (or two!) of wine.  I have been extremely lucky to have a sounding board, and this is probably why I have not joined the forum before now. 

Back on topic however, I have encouraged many friends and ‘people I know’ to watch the film.  Many have stated flat out that they have no intention of watching it and others have ridiculed the film (without seeing it). 

Even worse, I was on a night out with my husband’s office, and he was actually ridiculed by his colleagues for watching and (gosh!) enjoying the film. 

How will the film be viewed in 2038?  Hopefully society will have moved on and people will at least ‘view’ it before deciding on their opinion.