Author Topic: What should the US now do about Iraq?  (Read 3469 times)

Offline Lynne

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What should the US now do about Iraq?
« on: October 03, 2007, 12:10:01 am »
Shasta posted a neat poll where you could select where you stand on various issues and their importance to you and the survey would return where the various candidates stood on the issues being considered.  I disagreed with all my top candidates on the Iraq question, so I'm wondering what other people think about this specifically?  Feel free for all Brokies to chime in, not just the U.S.

Edit to add the link to Shasta's original poll:  http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,13555.msg261403.html#msg261403
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Offline Lynne

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Re: What should the US now do about Iraq?
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2007, 12:22:53 am »
I voted for #2.  My reasoning is that the other options are likely to lead to civil war.  I don't have the sense that the three principal ethnic groups are going to be able to set aside their very real differences, agendas, and priorities and govern together.  But maybe this option (and #1) are not thought of as 'good' because it's more unwanted interference on the part of the US.  I just really hate to see us leave without cleaning up the big mess we made...if we do that, the death toll (both US and Iraqi) is really all for zilch, imo.
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Offline dot-matrix

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Re: What should the US now do about Iraq?
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2007, 01:35:40 am »
I am in favor of Draw down the U.S. troops and decentralize Iraq by dividing it into regions of separate governments but I think there still needs to be a central govenment to which all the regional govenrments report otherwise you still have the very real specter of civil wars, destablization or trade and currency.  All major functions like taxes, currency, postage, and other regulatory mandates need to come from a centralized government.  Our forefathers learned this the hard way with the 13 original colonies when money from one colony was worthless in another, trade was hijacked and some colonies printed currency they had no gold or silver to back.    In reality I do not see the US pulling totally out of Iraq for some time to come.  Especially if we do the right thing and clean up the mess GWB made.
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Offline Lynne

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Re: What should the US now do about Iraq?
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2007, 01:39:36 am »
Those are really good points, Dottie - practical ideas about how a decentralized Iraq would work.  Thanks for helping unclog my synapses.  ;)
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Offline David In Indy

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Re: What should the US now do about Iraq?
« Reply #4 on: October 11, 2007, 10:34:58 pm »
Have you ever seen those signs hanging in stores that read "You Break It, You Buy It"?

Well. There you go. That's how I feel about it.

I was against this terrible and illegal war from the very beginning. I was among only a small handful of Hoosiers who opposed it and people called me anti American. If anyone in this stupid state of mine had taken FIFTEEN seconds to crack a history book they would have found out these Muslim sects have been feuding for over one thousand years. Invading Iraq would not only ignite a civil war in Iraq, war would likely irrupt throughout the Mideast.

*David steps down off his soap box*

Now we've gone in there, and we totally screwed up an entire country; a country who didn't want us there in the first place. People are fleeing Iraq by the hundreds of thousands, and every day innocent Iraqis are being killed by suicide bombers and death squads. Sooner or later the United States must learn we CANNOT invade any country we want, any time we want and force our beliefs on others who want NOTHING to do with us. Now we're beating our war drums again. They are telling us it is entirely possible we might invade Iran within the next six months. God help us all.

I never thought I would hear myself say this, because I've been in favor of a quick withdrawl for a long time, but I don't think it's possible anymore. I worry what will happen to the Iraqi people if we suddenly leave. We've raped, pillaged and destroyed their country. We need to stay there and fix what we've broken. And hopefully, in doing so, we will learn an important lesson and never make such a STUPID ASS mistake again.

If we leave now, what happens to Iraq? The Mideast? What about Europe? Africa? Europe and Africa are the Mideast's neighbors. I don't think most Americans yet realize the terrible mistake we made invading Iraq. We have to stay there and somehow fix this terrible mess we've made.

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Offline shortfiction

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Re: What should the US now do about Iraq?
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2007, 10:30:13 pm »
Excellent points, David.  I wish we could turn back the clock.

My fear is that we will end up waging war on Iran next, or on another country.
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Offline ifyoucantfixit

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Re: What should the US now do about Iraq?
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2007, 10:36:26 pm »



        Unfortunately we will do this stupid thing again.  As long as this country is run by the
money grubbing industrial complex that we have..
        Twice in a very short time.  Its a place that refuses to look at the past before launching
the future..  sad* 



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Offline brokeplex

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Re: What should the US now do about Iraq?
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2007, 11:09:30 pm »
I voted for option #2 because I think that is the eventual fate of Iraq. 3 zones: north Kurdistan, a central Sunni area and the rest of the country Shia.
But, to those who are crying out how "stupid" this war is, I would say the war has definitely been conducted in a very stupid fashion. Is this part of the war against Islamic fascist terrorism stupid? No, I think it is necessary. I wish that Prez W had used much more decisive force in defeating the so-called insurgents much earlier. Fortunately, the present "Surge" seems to be making progress, so the 3 likely successor states to Iraq may have a chance to succeed once US troops are withdrawn.
Wars are never attractive, but after the US was attacked twice (1993 / 2001)on US soil by Islamic fascists, I can't see how any President of the US could have failed to respond in a decisive manner. I fault Clinton in 1993 for treating the bombing of the World Trade Center as a law enforcment issue, not the national security issue that it was. Perhaps had Clinton been more decisive in attacking the terrorists network that existed in that time, in Afghanistan and Sudan, Al Qaeda would never have been able to launch the 2001 attack on NYC.

Offline delalluvia

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Re: What should the US now do about Iraq?
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2007, 01:14:35 pm »
I'm with David.  I was totally against the war, wrote letters, sent e-mails to my representatives, rallied my friends, supported the anti-war politicians, but we went in anyway.

 >:( >:(

Well, we're there now and have made a mess - like a great many of us knew we would.  :P

We need to stay until the infrastructure of Iraq is strong enough to take over.

Splitting the country into 3 sections will not help, IMO.  The oil fields and wealth of the country is not equally distributed.  As far as I know, the oil fields are located mostly in the north Kurdish areas and there is no way the Sunni and Shiah sections of the rest of the country will let those areas go without a fight or a percentage of the money and a say in how it is managed/distributed.

But I also don't see how we can let the situation in Iraq go unaddressed either.

Offline brokeplex

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Re: What should the US now do about Iraq?
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2007, 02:47:51 pm »


We need to stay until the infrastructure of Iraq is strong enough to take over.

Splitting the country into 3 sections will not help, IMO.  The oil fields and wealth of the country is not equally distributed.  As far as I know, the oil fields are located mostly in the north Kurdish areas and there is no way the Sunni and Shiah sections of the rest of the country will let those areas go without a fight or a percentage of the money and a say in how it is managed/distributed.



Those are interesting observations, some of which I think are right on target. I agree with you that some US troops must stay in force to give the locals a chance to establish a lawful and orderly state/or states.

Where I depart from your observations is about the reality of the 3 countries that make up the nation of Iraq. The "3 country " solution to bringing peace in Iraq is not something that will be imposed upon Iraq by outsiders, it will naturally evolve. Iraq as presently defined is made up of 3 distinct ethnic / linguistic regions. These regions were cobbled together into the nation of Iraq after the breakup of the Ottoman Empire post WWI. The victorious allies (France / GB), chose to impose a unified state on the entire Mesopotamian region, the locals did not necessarily want it. The victorious WWI allies made the same arrogant mistake in establishing a unified Yugoslavia at the same time. Yugoslavia was actually made up of 5 or 6 nationalitieswho after the fall of the communist bloc in 1989 and a civil war, chose to voluntarily disband Yugoslavia and create several successor states (Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia, etc)

As far as the geographical distribution of petroleum production and reserves in Iraq: major oil / gas production exists in the northern Kurdish areas, the central areas around Baghdad, and in the Southern areas. Iraq today has the world's 2nd largest proven petroleum reserves. There is plenty of oil and gas revenue to go around to make each successor state wealthy, if peaceful orderly governments who answer to the economic interests of their people are established. Saddam chose to ignore the needs and demands of the regions within Iraq and did not use the vast oil wealth of the county to develop infrastructure. This is one of the many reasons that the Kurds in the North and the Shi'a in the center and the South were delighted to see Saddam pushed out of power.

My hope is that peaceful, moderate nations will be established on the remains of Iraq in the near future leading to greater stability for the whole region.