Author Topic: Do you forgive or do you hold a grudge?  (Read 12449 times)

Offline David In Indy

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,447
  • You've Got Male
Re: Do you forgive or do you hold a grudge?
« Reply #20 on: October 18, 2007, 09:12:15 pm »
I almost alway think that I've forgiven... but the more I look at myself the more I realize that I really do hold grudges despite my best intentions.  I also have a horrible habit of being a bridge-burner.
 :-\



I've burned a few bridges in my lifetime too Amanda. And I ALWAYS end up regretting it later.
Dogs have owners. Cats have staff.

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Do you forgive or do you hold a grudge?
« Reply #21 on: October 18, 2007, 11:57:59 pm »
I almost never forgive and why?

The people who have hurt me and/ormine the majority of the time have done nothing to deserve my forgiveness.  They're almost never sorry for what they've done to hurt me, most never apologize or show any compassion for my pain or remorse.

So why do they deserve my forgiveness?

I understand sometimes why people do what they do, but if they're adults - and they almost always are - they are in complete control of their lives and actions, so that makes what hurt they cause and their blithe attitude about it even more despicable.

injest

  • Guest
Re: Do you forgive or do you hold a grudge?
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2007, 12:09:13 am »
I almost never forgive and why?

The people who have hurt me and/ormine the majority of the time have done nothing to deserve my forgiveness.  They're almost never sorry for what they've done to hurt me, most never apologize or show any compassion for my pain or remorse.

So why do they deserve my forgiveness?

I understand sometimes why people do what they do, but if they're adults - and they almost always are - they are in complete control of their lives and actions, so that makes what the hurt they cause and their blithe attitude about it even more despicable.

yes, that is what chaps me about forgiveness...all the aggressor has to do is say "Hey sorry about that" and they skip off scot free....while the victim is left to pick up the pieces...(AND gets hassles from people telling them they need to forgive "do it for yourself')

bah humbug!

Offline ifyoucantfixit

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,049
Re: Do you forgive or do you hold a grudge?
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2007, 12:10:31 am »


        Good to see you back Delalluvia..how was the trip?/



     Beautiful mind

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Do you forgive or do you hold a grudge?
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2007, 12:18:19 am »

        Good to see you back Delalluvia..how was the trip?/

Thanks.  A report on my trip will follow shortly on the thread I opened "An American Girl in Paris"  :)

Offline David In Indy

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,447
  • You've Got Male
Re: Do you forgive or do you hold a grudge?
« Reply #25 on: October 20, 2007, 01:11:18 am »
yes, that is what chaps me about forgiveness...all the aggressor has to do is say "Hey sorry about that" and they skip off scot free....while the victim is left to pick up the pieces...(AND gets hassles from people telling them they need to forgive "do it for yourself')

bah humbug!

I always feel better once I forgive someone Jess. It makes me feel free. And even if they don't accept my forgiveness, I know I've done my part, and it's all I can do.

And I don't think forgiving someone necessarily means we should forget what the person did to us. It's always good to forgive and forget when possible, but sometimes it just ISN'T possible. There's no reason I should be foolish when I forgive. If I know this person will probably do the same thing to me in the future, I can forgive him or her for what they did to me, and at the same time remain wary from that point on.

For example, if someone steals some money out of my wallet, I can forgive the person, but I would probably be a fool if I continued to leave my wallet laying on the table unguarded while they are in the same room. See what I mean?

Dogs have owners. Cats have staff.

Offline Ellemeno

  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • ********
  • Posts: 15,367
Re: Do you forgive or do you hold a grudge?
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2007, 05:21:40 am »
I think I'm reading different definitions of what forgiveness means.

My father was a terrifying, violent asshole when I was a child.  I hated him for years, long after he died when I was 14.  About 10 years ago, I grew in my perspective of his situation - he was  terrified, lonely, a bitter atheist, prescription-drug-abusing, always worried about money, treated coldly by his own mother (probably for good reason), and a sex-obsessed misogynist with no male friends.  If I had set myself up in that kind of situation, I would have been a raging, furious, uncontrollable asshole too. 

When I got to that understanding, my hatred of him evaporated, and was replaced by a pity and even a compassion.  It doesn't mean he didn't make my childhood a nightmare, and it sure doesn't mean I'm not still living with the consequences to this day, BUT it does mean that I'm not poisoned by all that ill-feeling toward him putrifying inside of me anymore.  And most of the PTSD effects seem to have melted away (I think).  It was definitely a miracle to have that shift.  And after a few years, I now see that that's a kind of forgiveness.

My mother was an active alcoholic while I was growing up, but mostly my ally, much, much better than my father.  But forgiveness for all her neglect of me didn't come til I myself became a mother.  As most of you know, I make a really big deal out of being as good a mother to my daughter as I can be.  And one day it dawned on me, that even being a MEDIOCRE mother must have been a huge amount of effort for my own mother - she's basically very self-absorbed, and back when I was growing up she was a single mother, working full time during the day, and drinking, smoking and who knows what many evenings.  Another thing that has helped me release my hostility toward her is standing back, now, as an adult, and seeing how often she is inconsiderate to others.  For most of my life I took very personally how she treated me.  Come to realize, that's the way she IS.  Yeah, it hurts to have a mommy like that, but Jesus H., it's liberating to realize it's not about ME.  Ya know?  I think I'm only about halfway toward forgiveness with her, or maybe even less, but what relief I've had makes me want more.

Finally, there's this great quote, I don't know where it's from, "Resentment is like taking poison and expecting the OTHER person to die."  That fits exactly for me.

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
Re: Do you forgive or do you hold a grudge?
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2007, 02:04:26 pm »
Gosh, what sad stories people have.  :'( :'( :'(

Thank you guys for the courage to open up and share them.

I can't speak for Jess of course, but the assumption is made by some people is that if someone else hurt you, and you're angry at them and can't forgive them, that you're somehow obsessed with that anger and resentment and you're letting it eat you up inside.

This is a mistaken assumption.  Yes, I'm sure some people are forever reviewing slights and hurts done to them and seethe about it, but not everyone does.

Anger and resentment are strong emotions, I agree, but they're no less controllable than love is. 

Love is another strong emotion.

If someone was madly in love with someone else, sighing and mooning over them like teenagers do, lying abed and daydreaming about them like Victorian heroines or modern people on an indulgent day, I certainly wouldn't consider this a personality fault and tell them they need to "get over it" and not let it 'eat them up'.  I would figure the height of the emotion would pass and it would eventually settle and morph into something less dramatic.

Anger and resentment are no different.

Yes, I'm angry with the people who hurt me, I resent them for it.  Do I think about them all the time?  Am I eaten up with envy and fury and stalk the world like an avenging superhero?

Fuck no.

If something jogs my memory about them,  I can't say that I recall their memory with sad fondness or regret because time did nothing to change what they did to me.

I'm still just as happy and enjoying life and having new relationships all the time even while still retaining my anger toward this particular person.  What they did to me was wrong then and it's still wrong today.  Why would time change that?

Holding a grudge or anger toward people who have hurt us is not the Biblical bane we've all been taught by society or Sunday school.  It's a matter of managing one's emotions.

The Jewish people certainly didn't forget or forgive the Nazis who escaped in the confusion of the post WWII world.  I certainly support them in hunting down those who hurt them and bringing them to justice.

What I find strange is that people who have hurt you like to forget that they did so.  So years later when you meet again, they like to pretend your past together was happy and you parted best of friends.   >:( >:(

Strange how my memories differ from theirs.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2007, 05:33:09 pm by delalluvia »

Offline CellarDweller

  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • ********
  • Posts: 38,298
  • A city boy's mentality, with a cowboy's soul.
Re: Do you forgive or do you hold a grudge?
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2007, 02:59:01 pm »
I find that if I forgive someone, it frees me to move on to other things.   Holding a grudge is only negative energy that will weigh me down.

It doesn't mean that I leave myself open to be "taken" again by that person, but why waste the energy on anger?


Tell him when l come up to him and ask to play the record, l'm gonna say: ''Voulez-vous jouer ce disque?''
'Voulez-vous, will you kiss my dick?'
Will you play my record? One-track mind!

injest

  • Guest
Re: Do you forgive or do you hold a grudge?
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2007, 07:24:36 am »
Thank you Del. You always state things I think so much clearer than I could!!

 :laugh:

here is the thing. To me, just dropping and shrugging off injury shows you lack true feeling for other people. I CARE how other people feel. And that includes how they feel about me. It bothers me to think that I have upset someone. I am told that I apologize too much (huh, Roland?  :laugh:) but I would rather apologize unnecessarily than just shrug off someone and say "Oh well, too bad so sad" and dance off having a good time.

conversely, I feel MY feelings are important too. I am a human being, and for someone to cause me harm and then pretend they didn't....well that indicates to me that that person lacks something very profound. And that person is a person I would avoid. I don't wish them harm. Don't care what they are doing....just don't want them in my life.

I prefer people who are truly compassionate and feeling in my life.