Author Topic: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?  (Read 9275 times)

Offline brokeplex

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Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« on: November 04, 2007, 05:11:38 pm »
It's just speculation on my part but, I wonder if Jack Twist was adopted as a baby by Mr. and Mrs. John Twist? Jack never mentioned this in the dialog, but there is something about the tale of his younger life that makes me wonder if he was adopted. Perhaps the "uncle" Aguirre mentioned who had pneumonia is his biological father? Pure speculation on my part.
Note the scene in the Twist kitchen when Ennis comes to ask about the disposition of Jack's ashes. "He (Ennis) couldn't see much of Jack in either of them...." Maybe something,that for country ranch people of that time, happened that was "shameful" and Jack was the product. The baby Jack ended up with the Twists. That could partially explain why OMT never warmed to his son, "He kept his secrets to himself. Never taught me a thing. Never once come and see me ride." OMT may have been compelled out of some obligation to adopt and raise Jack. But not being his biological father may have resented him in his house.  any thoughts or observations on my speculation?

Offline tampatalon

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2007, 05:52:02 pm »
The thought of Jack being adopted never occured to me but now that you mention it, maybe. Perhaps the Twist's could not have children so they adopted Jack. Also from what I remember families were a little bigger, 3 to 4 children on the average way back. The Twists being barren or at least OMT shooting blanks would explain why Jack was an only child and perhaps adopted.

TampaTalon ^">
"Lean on me, Let our hearts beat in time, Feel strength from the hands that have held you so long. Who cares where we go on this rutted old road, In a world that may say that we're wrong."--EmmyLou Harris

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2007, 09:51:44 pm »
The thought of Jack being adopted never occured to me but now that you mention it, maybe. Perhaps the Twist's could not have children so they adopted Jack. Also from what I remember families were a little bigger, 3 to 4 children on the average way back. The Twists being barren or at least OMT shooting blanks would explain why Jack was an only child and perhaps adopted.

TampaTalon ^">
Great point about the "Stud Duck" shooting blanks! I had to chuckle. Another thought occured to me that reinforces the "Adoption" angle for Jack. If Jack was adopted and not raised by his biological parents, then that is another bond of sorts with Ennis. Ennis's parents were killed when he was a child. Ennis wore his losses and his fears of future losses ON HIS SLEEVE! Perhaps Jack subconsiously identified with Ennis's consious sense of loss and alienation. Perhaps that is one of the reasons why the boys bonded so well ,and their "one shot thing" turned into much more than quickies in the woods. Just another speculative thought.

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2007, 10:23:32 pm »
I remembered something else that points as a clue towards Jacks's origins as an adoptee. In the short story it is mentioned that Jack was circumsized, his father was not. Little boys usually are circumsized if the father is, uncircumsized if the father is not. Family traditions, religious or cultural traditions, etc.

Offline tampatalon

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2007, 02:38:08 am »
I remembered something else that points as a clue towards Jacks's origins as an adoptee. In the short story it is mentioned that Jack was circumsized, his father was not. Little boys usually are circumsized if the father is, uncircumsized if the father is not. Family traditions, religious or cultural traditions, etc.


Sounds reasonable. Its most likely that Jack would have been born on the Twist Ranch if he was not adopted and fer sure OMT would not part with the bucks to have someone come way out to dick-clip Jack. Following that reasoning Jack might have been born in a "big city" like Riverton and where he was clipped prior to adoption. One line does come to my mind which leads me to believe he was adopted and thus OMT resentment of Jack. "He thought he was too goddam special to be buried in the family plot". Maybe it was not his real family plot.

TampaTalon ^">
"Lean on me, Let our hearts beat in time, Feel strength from the hands that have held you so long. Who cares where we go on this rutted old road, In a world that may say that we're wrong."--EmmyLou Harris

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2007, 06:57:39 am »
Perhaps Jack subconsiously identified with Ennis's consious sense of loss and alienation. Perhaps that is one of the reasons why the boys bonded so well ,

I'm sure you're right on spot with the quoted part. Both had horrible fathers; no support, love or emphathy to be found there. Somehow they were both "lost" children and their upbringing was similar (as Annie stated at the beginning of the story) and similar awful.

But this is true independently from your adoption speculation. Therefore it neither supports nor questions your theory.

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2007, 03:52:44 pm »
Sounds reasonable. Its most likely that Jack would have been born on the Twist Ranch if he was not adopted and fer sure OMT would not part with the bucks to have someone come way out to dick-clip Jack. Following that reasoning Jack might have been born in a "big city" like Riverton and where he was clipped prior to adoption. One line does come to my mind which leads me to believe he was adopted and thus OMT resentment of Jack. "He thought he was too goddam special to be buried in the family plot". Maybe it was not his real family plot.

TampaTalon ^">

good point, there seems a bit of evidence that Jack may have been adopted. I'm now fairly sure that he was, and that explains a great deal about him in my mind.
I wonder what AP would have to say about this?

Offline ifyoucantfixit

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2007, 05:30:35 pm »



           I hate to make this a diasagreement, but....there is not one little word in there about
any adoption.  If she wanted him adopted I would think she would have said so...He was a
child mistreated by his own biological father..There is no real reason for it to happen..It doesnt
need any reason, but the usual reason is because the parent was also mistreated, and therefor
acts out accordingly...I have personal experience in this regard...My own father was very mistreated
as a youngster.  Then he proceeded to do the same..



     Beautiful mind

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2007, 10:56:52 am »


           I hate to make this a diasagreement, but....there is not one little word in there about
any adoption.  If she wanted him adopted I would think she would have said so...He was a
child mistreated by his own biological father..There is no real reason for it to happen..It doesnt
need any reason, but the usual reason is because the parent was also mistreated, and therefor
acts out accordingly...I have personal experience in this regard...My own father was very mistreated
as a youngster.  Then he proceeded to do the same..
It is one of the horrible facts about abuse that it can be transferred from one generation to the next. I most definitely agree with you that AP said nothing directly or clearly about whether OMT and the Mrs. adopted Jack, that why its just a hunch on my part. But then there is quite a bit that is suggested or even subliminal at many different levels not only in "Brokeback Mountain" but also in her other stories. I've become a big AP fan, I love reading her terse no nonsense prose. I know that for me, the more often I read her short story, and see Ang Lee's movie, the more details I see.

Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2007, 05:51:21 am »
No Jack Twist was not adopted. I never heard this discussed on set at all. I thinl Annie would have elaborated the fact in the short.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2007, 07:32:10 pm »
It could be that Jack was an adopted child!

And that is why the father hesitated to place Jack's in their area (tombstone)?

But why accept his funeral then?

Hugs!

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2007, 10:35:27 am »
It could be that Jack was an adopted child!

And that is why the father hesitated to place Jack's in their area (tombstone)?

But why accept his funeral then?

Hugs!

Artiste, OMT was adament that Jack's ashes were to be placed in the Twist family plot. OMT did not consent, as of yet, that Ennis should take the ashes to Brokeback Mountain. But, I wonder if Ennis ever went back for a return visit and Mrs. Twist gave Ennis some ashes to scatter in the one place that Jack was happy. ?????

OMT was alienated and disappointed in his son. But,those are not reasons enough alone to suspect that Jack was adopted. My thoughts about his possible adoption rise from the combination of hints in the story and the movie too. But I accept that most people do not believe that this is true because it is never directly stated in narrative or dialog. After reading all of AP's works, I have become obsessed with her style, I came to realize that many of her most important points in her stories are told between the lines. So, I revisited the Brokeback story with that in mind and came to the conclusion that Jack as an adopted child explained so very much about his life and his love for Ennis.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2007, 07:23:02 pm »
Thanks brokeplex!

You say:  So, I revisited the Brokeback story with that in mind and came to the conclusion that Jack as an adopted child explained so very much about his life and his love for Ennis.

So to you, Jack is an adopted child! That seems right! But it does not answer why his father (OMT) wants Jack's ashes in the family plot??

Hugs!

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2007, 01:46:31 pm »



So to you, Jack is an adopted child! That seems right! But it does not answer why his father (OMT) wants Jack's ashes in the family plot??

OMT resented Jack. If Jack wanted his ashes on Brokeback, perhaps OMT wanted to have the last word and deny Ennis the opportunity to comply with Jack's wishes. Maybe he wanted Ennis to come back again, he wanted to leave the door open for a return visit. I'm not sure.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2007, 03:22:26 pm »
Thanks brokeplex!

You say: OMT resented Jack. If Jack wanted his ashes on Brokeback, perhaps OMT wanted to have the last word and deny Ennis the opportunity to comply with Jack's wishes. Maybe he wanted Ennis to come back again, he wanted to leave the door open for a return visit. I'm not sure. 
 


Very well phrased brokeplex! So both Jack mother and OMT want Ennis to come back to visit?? It remains was Jack adopted or not?? The views of Jack seem different to OMT because Jack was adopted? Or somewhat same because Jack was not adopted?

Hugs!

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2007, 03:39:12 pm »
Thanks brokeplex!

You say: OMT resented Jack. If Jack wanted his ashes on Brokeback, perhaps OMT wanted to have the last word and deny Ennis the opportunity to comply with Jack's wishes. Maybe he wanted Ennis to come back again, he wanted to leave the door open for a return visit. I'm not sure. 
 


Very well phrased brokeplex! So both Jack mother and OMT want Ennis to come back to visit?? It remains was Jack adopted or not?? The views of Jack seem different to OMT because Jack was adopted? Or somewhat same because Jack was not adopted?

Hugs!

This is pure speculation on my part Artiste. There is nothing that directly tells us that Jack was adopted. I simply see a pattern that probably most Brokies do not accept.
It answers many of the questions in my mind as to why Jack and Ennis fell so strongly in love (the bond of mutual parental loss), why was OMT alienated from Jack, why  mother Twist asked Aguirre to ride all of the way up the mountain to tell Jack his uncle was terminal  (the Uncle was Jack's biological father is my answer).

Offline Artiste

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #16 on: November 24, 2007, 11:36:22 am »
Thanks brokeplex!

You say: (the Uncle was Jack's biological father is my answer).
 
 
 
Wow!  You might be right!! Great idea you have there! That would be good for a 2nd BM movie?

Concerning Jack's father (if it was OMT), Jack was not so much alienated from him, since Jack did return often there??

Hugs!

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #17 on: November 24, 2007, 07:34:36 pm »
Thanks brokeplex!

You say: (the Uncle was Jack's biological father is my answer).
 
 
 
Wow!  You might be right!! Great idea you have there! That would be good for a 2nd BM movie?

Concerning Jack's father (if it was OMT), Jack was not so much alienated from him, since Jack did return often there??

Hugs!
could be.....I think it adds a dimension to the story that I think works well.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2007, 08:26:40 pm »
Thanks brokeplex!

When you think that maybe: Jack's  Uncle was Jack's biological father is my answer.
 
 

Then maybe that is why Jack's boss did not fire Jack nor Ennis right away when he saw them playing as lovers??

Hugs!

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2007, 08:32:20 pm »
Thanks brokeplex!
 
 

Then maybe that is why Jack's boss did not fire Jack nor Ennis right away when he saw them playing as lovers??

Hugs!

hunh! I don't understand. I think that Aguirre didn't fire them because he couldn't. It would have been very impractical to get replacement up the mountain in the middle of the summer.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2007, 08:44:43 pm »
Thanks brokeplex!

Even if it would have been impratical for Acquirre to fire immediately or nearly so both Jack and Ennis or one, surely he would have!

Even if not so easy to replace them! Since he cuts their time in half!! Really why so early??

Hugs!

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2007, 09:16:12 pm »
Thanks brokeplex!

Even if it would have been impratical for Acquirre to fire immediately or nearly so both Jack and Ennis or one, surely he would have!

Even if not so easy to replace them! Since he cuts their time in half!! Really why so early??

Hugs!

It would have been bad economics to have fired them when he saw the two "rolling in the dust". It was still too early in the season and the sheep weren't yet fat enough on the allotment grass. When he did cut their summer short, it was August, that was late enough for it to pay economically.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2007, 10:55:54 am »
Thanks brokeplex!

Adopted or not as a child, Jack did stay with Ennis there for how many days?

Hugs!

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2007, 03:59:07 pm »
Thanks brokeplex!

Adopted or not as a child, Jack did stay with Ennis there for how many days?

Hugs!

Do you mean how many days were Jack and Ennis together after meeting in Aguirre's "chokey little trailer"?

Most ranchers in the Northern Rockies move their sheep up to the allotments in late May or Early June. Aguirre told them to shove 'em down in the middle of August. So counting the 2 days they were in Signal and the 2 days during and after shove down. I would say they were together a little over  2 1/2 months.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2007, 10:04:58 pm by brokeplex »

Offline Artiste

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #24 on: November 29, 2007, 11:49:44 am »
Thanks brokeplex!

Wow, 2 1/2 months maybe Ennis and Jack were together then... on the mountain!

How many more after that?

Hugs!

Offline Artiste

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #25 on: November 29, 2007, 11:55:23 am »
Brokeplex, did you see this subject:
Alma jr. was intelligent and must have known that her father was bi or gay?

She did think about family life!! That is what makes me think that she knew that Ennis, her father was a bi or gay man!!

You think so too, maybe?

Hugs!

...
May I add that maybe she did think also that Jack could have been an adopted child?

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2007, 11:29:32 am »
Brokeplex, did you see this subject:
Alma jr. was intelligent and must have known that her father was bi or gay?

She did think about family life!! That is what makes me think that she knew that Ennis, her father was a bi or gay man!!

You think so too, maybe?

Hugs!

...
May I add that maybe she did think also that Jack could have been an adopted child?


yes, I saw that thread and was appalled at some of the condescension directed towards Alma Jr by some of the posters. I verbally objected to their pretentious attitude towards Alma jr. I am in the corner that Alma was a smart young lady and she wanted perhaps to know her fathers true nature.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Was Jack Twist an Adopted Child?
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2007, 11:52:57 am »
Thanks brokeplex!

I am glad that you say that Alma Jr. wanted to know her father's true nature!

I believe that too! It seems to me that there are many proofs of that!


I think that she accepts that he father is a bi or gay man!
And, therefore, I find her very intelligent for that!
You think so too?

Hugs!