I had a discussion today!

[Anya_Angie]

Well guys, I had a discussion today and I just wanted to share it.

I went to my brother's for a Mother's Day dinner, and while my prejudiced stepfather was outside, my mother, brother's girlfriend, and myself discussed Brokeback Mountain very briefly. We couldn't possibly bring it up while my stepdad was inside with us or he'd flip, even though all of us are straight. He thinks it's wrong to support anyone or anything "queer."

My mother said the film was slow and you had to analyze everything, and she didn't like that. My brother's girlfriend Chrissy said she couldn't understand anything Ennis was saying. I mentioned that you had to take into account Ennis' education, and that you did indeed have to analyze everything because it was all secretive.

They look at it as simply "a movie," with which I'm disappointed but not surprised. In short, the film's message went over their heads. *sigh*

[serious crayons]

I have given up trying to persuade anyone I know to see it. Partly because of experiences like yours, Anya_Angie. I'd rather have them not see it at all, than to see it and criticize it or be "ehh" about it.

[Karan13]

It is horrible when someone can`t share your point of view especially when you are so passionate about something , some minds unfortunately can never be changed , so it is probably best to just try and discuss the movie with people who can appreciate a great piece of cinematic history, rather than others who would laugh at you and try to ruin your enjoyment.

I found no one who saw the movie shared my passion so it was nice to post on the Brokeback Board at IMdb , i found that men , woman , Gay , BI and staight shared my passion. xx kaz

[silkncense]

Has anyone formulated an opinion as to WHY some of us not only see all the subtlety of this film but are deeply impacted by it. 

And, it clearly is not limited to any particular 'group' - we've seen young, old(ish) , gay, straight, male & female.  Thoughts?

[ednbarby]

Has anyone formulated an opinion as to WHY some of us not only see all the subtlety of this film but are deeply impacted by it. 

And, it clearly is not limited to any particular 'group' - we've seen young, old(ish) , gay, straight, male & female.  Thoughts?

I honestly think it comes down to compassion and sensitivity.  I've known people I think are very bright who said it was just "ehh."  I've known people I wouldn't describe as intellectuals who *loved* it.  While I do think there's that group of moviegoers in this country who like their films spoon-fed to them (you know - the Crashites), I think it's more a measure of your capability for compassion as to whether it moves you like it's moved us or doesn't.  One coworker, for example, who I think is very intelligent and who I think has very good taste in movies said that it was "clearly very well-done - well-written, well-acted, well-shot" but that she wasn't particularly moved by it.  She did understand implicitly that Jack was most likely murdered, and even said it was eerie how much it parallels Matthew Shepard's story.  But she didn't shed a tear.  But then, she wasn't outraged by the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina or the 2004 election like I was, either, even though she is quite liberal and agrees both things are "a shame," after which she shrugs her shoulders and says, "But what can you do?"

Then there's my husband, who I consider about the most intelligent person I've ever known personally.  He just gets stuff - immediately.  And he can explain it so that someone like me who doesn't can understand it.  And I mean everything - from how an air conditioner works to the proper mechanics of volleyball to every plot twist and nuance in "Miller's Crossing" (which I had to watch twice and have him explain it to me to fully understand it).  I never thought of him as a particularly compassionate person - he always describes me as his "heart of gold" in the sense that he doesn't see himself as having the kind of compassion I do.  And yet he wept like a baby watching this movie.

Maybe it's that all us Brokies are fixers instead of standers, each in our own way.  And I know many of us have had to work very hard to come to be that way - myself included, but on a different level, I think.  So maybe it takes that to see that this movie is tragic on a Shakespearean level - to see this man who had a shot at real happiness and fulfillment that maybe one in a million people get but who missed it because of his ingrained, societally-influenced fears.  I haven't quite pieced together *why* it takes being a fixer to see that, but I think it may be the common thread.

[Lynne]

Barb - I think you are absolutely on the right track with your analysis.  And, btw, I think it's lovely that your husband and you are so well-matched.

This whole 'dealing with the non-believers' has been a major source of frustration for me.  On the positive side, I have become much better at explaining WHY the movie touched me so deeply.  Every time I get questioned, it gives me another opportunity to give voice to all of those complicated and conflicting emotions that have been churning.

I will add only one observation I have made.  In addition to needing compassion, sensitivity, and at least some level of intelligence, I think the people who 'get it' are emotionally ready to receive it.  I think there must be some open space in the heart for Brokeback Mountain to fill.  I don't it's necessary that something was missing previously - though that may be the case for some.  There is a long list of reasons why the movie affected each of us, and although they can be categorized (there's a poll that boils it down), there are as many subtle variations to the reasons as there are individuals, I would think.

-Lynne

[Anya_Angie]

That's exactly it I think, being a fixer vs. being a stander! I've definitely always seen myself as optimistic. When life gives me lemons I make lemonade. That sort of thing. I don't just take what I'm given, I don't settle for it. And yes I analyze things when I'm interested (for example in movies how relatively poor the visual effects are in Narnia, and how poor the battle scenes are done). As a child I didn't really care for the film Fantasia, but as an adult I love it, think it's extraordinary and I am in awe of its animation, and now I love classical music of course. Oh, but trying to watch it with my stepfather was torture. We didn't even get halfway through the first piece when I stormed home because of his constant complaining.

OK that's getting a bit OT. Anyway, I think how the film affects you could be based on how you look at films. Are they just movies, or are they portals into different settings? I for one feel like I'm in just about every film I see, and I take the elements of filmmaking very seriously. I don't just go out of a theater saying Oh that was a great movie! I go out talking about the various ASPECTS of the movie that I love and the areas where it needs improvement, especialy with regards to scores. I'm very passionate about film music, ever since I was 7 when my father and I watched The Ten Commandments. I thought it was the most glorious music I'd ever heard! I also loved the music in The Secret of NIMH and Disney's Sleeping Beauty, but looking back, watching The Ten Commandments for the first time and hearing that magnificent score, few scores have since matched it, and that's when I truly fell in love with film music. I didn't know anything about composers until John Williams' E.T. and Home Alone. And then he was the only composer I knew well by name (because I was so young I didn't bother with longer names like Jerry Goldsmith LOL!). Eventually I grew to like the works of Horner, Elfman, Goldenthal, the Newman family, and so many others. Now I have 200 scores in my collection and growing, I've been collecting for ten years, and the first thing I ask when seeing or hearing about a new film is "Who's the composer?"

Brokeback has one of the most emotional scores I've ever heard. Its theme "The Wings" is right up there with the great love themes "Across The Stars" and "For The Love Of A Princess," two of my all-time favorites.

Course it doesn't help that both of those are from the last ten years LOL! But still, they stand up to time.

[silkncense]

the people who 'get it' are emotionally ready to receive it.

 

Maybe that's it! 

I know I probably have more compassion than many people I know but I am not sure that is totally it. 

And I am probably more of an Ennis "stander" than a Jack "fixer" so that can't explain it for me...

It clearly is not intelligence cause those that I suggested it to & saw only a well acted, ok film are people I consider(ed) intelligent...

Maybe this is the ONE thing about this movie that we have not figured out.

[starboardlight]

Has anyone formulated an opinion as to WHY some of us not only see all the subtlety of this film but are deeply impacted by it. 

And, it clearly is not limited to any particular 'group' - we've seen young, old(ish) , gay, straight, male & female.  Thoughts?

I agree with Barb as well as with what Lynn wrote. Compassion is key, but being emotionally ready for the message is also important. I want to throw in another theory. I think that the people who love this film are people who can deal with ambiguities and contradictions in life, of which the film is full. People who understand that there isn't always an easy answer in life can get deeper inside the story. From some of your own description of how you dealt the film, you're willing to negotiate those ambiguities and try to work through them from your own perspectives. Even if you don't succeed in figuring them out, just the effort allowed you to become involved in the story. By the end you're all deeply invested in the lives and experienced told. The people who don't "get it" are those that need things to be clear and distinct. They get hung up with morality and judgement. Their comments about not understand what Ennis says is very telling. They need to know every word that was said. Being hung up on the exact details and words, they miss that the gist of his facial expression tells us what's really going on. They certainly miss the big picture. And Angie's mom is right. This film does require analysis. This film doesn't tell us what or how to think about anything. You have to be willing to work and have your thoughts challenged and pushed. That's one of the beautiful thing about art, isn't it? And I think that explain all the people with "delayed reactions". We didn't know how to feel, beyond being devastated, when the film ended, but as we process it further after leaving the theater, the film hit us even harder because we continue to work through those conflicting emotions and details. When it all fits, that when it hits us hardest. I'm one of those that didn't cry when I first saw it, nor the second time I saw it. Rather I cried several days later when it all came together for me.

While it's a generalization, and there are exceptions, I do think that Brokies are those who accept contradictions in life and are willing to work through them, and those that don't get it are those who need to see things in black and white, those who need to be told that there is only one clear answer.

[silkncense]

The people who don't "get it" are those that need things to be clear and distinct. They get hung up with morality and judgement.

 

they miss that the gist of his facial expression tells us what's really going on. They certainly miss the big picture. And Angie's mom is right. This film does require analysis. This film doesn't tell us what or how to think about anything. You have to be willing to work and have your thoughts challenged and pushed.

And those that don't tend to feel safer as 'one of the herd.'  I have a little cartoon on my desk, three panels: 

1.) "Is it me or..."

2.) "Yes."

3.) "I was afraid of that."

And I think that explain all the people with "delayed reactions". We didn't know how to feel, beyond being devastated, when the film ended, but as we process it further after leaving the theater, the film hit us even harder because we continue to work through those conflicting emotions and details.

Nipith! 

I think you are exactly right - I absolutely did NOT understand why everyone didn't react as I did.  But while I continued mulling the film, I did not give the proper amount of time to understanding why others failed to see what I did in the film itself. 

Lately, I had been trying to understand that.  Thanks much for the assist!