Author Topic: When is it too late to still have Holiday decorations up?  (Read 58684 times)

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: When is it too late to still have Holiday decorations up?
« Reply #90 on: January 08, 2013, 04:12:21 pm »
Chrissi and I must have read the same Wikipedia article.  :laugh:

I was surprised that there was no tree at the Vatican until the time of JP II.

Now we have to find out who on earth were the Brotherhood of Blackheads!  :laugh:
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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: When is it too late to still have Holiday decorations up?
« Reply #91 on: January 08, 2013, 05:31:27 pm »
I guess the Brotherhood of Blackheads was a merchants guild in Estonia that got started in the 14th century:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brotherhood_of_Blackheads

Sounds positively Sherlockian!

What puzzles me is that they were Christians and were persecuted for being so. What was the prevalent religion there then, I wonder?  ???
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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: When is it too late to still have Holiday decorations up?
« Reply #92 on: January 09, 2013, 10:30:52 am »
I guess the Brotherhood of Blackheads was a merchants guild in Estonia that got started in the 14th century:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brotherhood_of_Blackheads

Sounds positively Sherlockian!

What puzzles me is that they were Christians and were persecuted for being so. What was the prevalent religion there then, I wonder?  ???

Well, if you follow the link to the Brotherhood of Blackheads article, and then from there the link to the article on the St. George's Night Uprising, it would seem that as late as the middle of the 14th century the region of the Baltic states was only superficially Christianized. It might be useful or interesting to research something like "Christianity in Estonia," or perhaps that business about "renouncing Christianity" was a lie thrown in by those who ultimately crushed the rebellion to make the rebels who had killed priests and monks--whom I'm guessing were ethnic Germans, not natives--seem even more awful.

Edit to Add:

Article on the history of Estonia: http://www.lonelyplanet.com/estonia/history
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: When is it too late to still have Holiday decorations up?
« Reply #93 on: January 09, 2013, 02:39:12 pm »
This is getting creepy! I was just looking at an Infographic of emotions for which there is no English word and zeroed in on Viitsima, which is Estonian. I'm starting to think I'm destined to travel to Estonia this year in search of Aurochs.  8)
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Offline brian

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Re: When is it too late to still have Holiday decorations up?
« Reply #94 on: January 10, 2013, 12:19:28 am »
I have a photo of the House of Blackheads which I toured in 2008. It is in Riga, Latvia, do not remember anything of that name in Estonia. (on the right)

It is one of the few photos I still have of my trips from 2008 to 2010. I had posted it on my blog. My hard drive crashed last month and although I sent it to a lab all was lost.  :(
I now have an external hard drive which backs up every hour the new computer (MacBook Air) is turned on. A bit of overkill really.

Our vicar told us just recently that Jesus was probably born in September. Therefore all of the Christmas festivities are just a Christian take over of the pagan Mid Winter celebrations. Of course for me it has always been mid summer and most traditions are rather ridiculous.

I took down my cards, the nativity scene and a small santa ornament last Sunday (Epiphany). The only person to see them was the electricity meter reader anyway. I will keep the cards and show them to my sister when she visits in March.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: When is it too late to still have Holiday decorations up?
« Reply #95 on: January 10, 2013, 09:58:51 am »
Our vicar told us just recently that Jesus was probably born in September.

That's interesting! I don't suppose he happened to say on what that conclusion was based?
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: When is it too late to still have Holiday decorations up?
« Reply #96 on: January 10, 2013, 11:56:23 am »
This is studied extensively in Messianic Judaism, and a thorough explanation is located here. Scholars have concluded that Jesus was born during the Feast of the Tabernacles in September-October, when Jewish people often sleep in tents or booths outside (and they theorize that that is where Jesus was born, in a booth, not a barn).

Setting Christmas on December 25 was done by the early Roman Christian emperors in the third century AD, to cause the least amount of upset among the people who were accustomed to celebrating the birth of Mithras then.

Oh, and most scholars think that Christ was born in 4 to 6 BC.

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Offline brian

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Re: When is it too late to still have Holiday decorations up?
« Reply #97 on: January 10, 2013, 01:45:36 pm »
It was our vicar's sermon for Epiphany. I will quote from his blog

" As we’re often told, we don’t know the actual date of Jesus’ birth, although if Jesus was born six months after his cousin John the Baptist then we can say with some certainty that Jesus was born in September. John’s father Zecchariah was on duty in the Temple at the time of the announcement of John’s birth and thus, knowing when his family would have been on duty as we do – Luke tells us Zechariah was of the order of Abijah – it’s merely a matter of adding 15 months which brings us to September!! So we were ALL late for Christmas!!
However many Christians are even later than we were. For Orthodox Christians, who make up about 1/3 of the world’s Christians celebrate Christmas today – the Feast of the Epiphany – so if you like a good reason for some more celebration – then conversion might be a good idea :)"

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: When is it too late to still have Holiday decorations up?
« Reply #98 on: January 10, 2013, 03:21:06 pm »
Fascinating! Thanks! I will have to study the article Lee linked more closely when I have time.  :)
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline oilgun

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Re: When is it too late to still have Holiday decorations up?
« Reply #99 on: January 10, 2013, 09:11:05 pm »
We always took down xmas decorations the day after Epiphany.

In any event I'm still upset that Brussels caved in to traditionalists (and, inexplicably, islamophobes) and dismantled their very cool electronic xmas tree before New Year's eve.


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