Author Topic: Joe Aguirre: what do you think of this character as portrayed in the movie?  (Read 64013 times)

Offline ennisjack

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Re: Joe Aguirre: what do you think of this character as portrayed in the movie?
« Reply #110 on: January 09, 2008, 09:43:32 pm »
  Anythng is possible, Artiste. I just didn't like his personality. He kinda came across sorta like L.D. 'I ain't got time for deuces like you, so you better make it goo,' kinda way.

EJ
If ya can't fix it, ya gotta stand it; If ya can't stand it, ya gotta fix it; If ya can't do either one then ya either need some serious help or yer screwed

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Joe Aguirre: what do you think of this character as portrayed in the movie?
« Reply #111 on: January 10, 2008, 02:47:08 pm »
  Actually, melb_boy88 and Artiste, are correct. Time just doesn't fit in this. I think Aguirre was getting off on watching which disguted him even more than breathing.  ;D 

  Anyway, about the only thing I would marry Aguirre to would be a shotgun.(With profuse apologizes to the shotgun for demeaning it.)  ;D


EnnisJack

what we know for sure is that:

1) Aguirre voiced unhappiness over the loss of the sheep to predators and the merging of the herds,

2) declined to rehire Jack, voicing his displeasure that Ennis and Jack "wasn't gettin' paid to leave the dogs babysit the sheep while you stemmed the rose." (quoting from the McMurtry-Ossana screenplay)

I'm not sure why Aguirre chose to watch the boys have sex for ten minutes. Maybe he "got off to it". Maybe he wanted to see who would finally go up the mountain to tend to his sheep. Maybe like a lot of people in real life, Aguirre had mixed motives and emotions.

I don't find myself disliking Aguirre as I do L.D. Newsome. Aguirre had his faults, his chief one is that he didn't provide the boys with enough food, and he provided too much whiskey. But he was like a lot of business owners, he just wanted to make a profit and gambled that Ennis and Jack would be the right fit for his goals. And, remember he hired Jack back a second time, and he paid the boys after shovedown. If you look at him from that point of view, maybe he ain't too bad. He's not going to win any tolerance awards here on this web site. But was he really so bad for someone in his business, at that time, in that location?

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Joe Aguirre: what do you think of this character as portrayed in the movie?
« Reply #112 on: January 10, 2008, 02:49:39 pm »
But was he really so bad for someone in his business, at that time, in that location?

I vote No.


moremojo

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Re: Joe Aguirre: what do you think of this character as portrayed in the movie?
« Reply #113 on: January 10, 2008, 02:56:26 pm »
Aguirre is certainly no villain, either in the film or in the original story.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Joe Aguirre: what do you think of this character as portrayed in the movie?
« Reply #114 on: January 10, 2008, 07:55:41 pm »
Well said brokeplex and others!!

Aguirre is puzzling... in many ways!!

Why was there two instead of just one before, that Aguirre hired??

Or did Aguirre employ two guys also then First year Jack was there?

But...

awaiting your news from you all gay coyboys and cowgirls and others,

hugs!!

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Joe Aguirre: what do you think of this character as portrayed in the movie?
« Reply #115 on: January 11, 2008, 01:23:52 am »
In answer to your question Artiste.

I think Aguirre employed two men that summer before. I don't have any sustantiating quotations, but my gut says two, and the second was probably the guy who met Ennis at the bridge with the food. any thoughts?

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Joe Aguirre: what do you think of this character as portrayed in the movie?
« Reply #116 on: January 11, 2008, 02:09:25 am »

Heya,

I thought I'd introduce a slightly new avenue into discussing Aguirre.  It occurs to me that new insights always come up when we look at still shots from the movie carefully.  So, I thought it might be interesting to discuss how Aguirre is physically portrayed.  His clothing, his accessories (his hat, his sunglasses, etc.), the stuff in his office, his car, his horse...  What do these things help us understand about him or his role?


<img src="http://www.divshare.com/img/midsize/3423016-f28.jpg" border="0" />

<img src="http://www.divshare.com/img/thumb/3423015-cf1.jpg" border="0" />

<img src="http://www.divshare.com/img/midsize/3423013-f93.jpg" border="0" />

<img src="http://www.divshare.com/img/midsize/3423014-0a9.jpg" border="0" />


I think his trailer office is particularly important.  If other folks have better images of his trailer interior... I'd be really grateful. :) There are so many details in this office and some crucial bits of information that get revealed at different times... especially the binoculars that he hangs on the wall behind him.  Of course, when Jack and Ennis are in his trailer together the binoculars are concealed in their case and when Jack comes back alone the next summer to ask for a job the binoculars are hanging in the same spot, but outside their case.  So, Jack is the only one who ever really understands the extent of Aguirre's ability to watch them... Ennis never even sees those binoculars at the beginning.  If Ennis had more of an idea about Aguirre's interest in watching them... I wonder how different things would have been between Jack and Ennis during their summer.


the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline LauraGigs

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Re: Joe Aguirre: what do you think of this character as portrayed in the movie?
« Reply #117 on: January 11, 2008, 02:31:46 am »
Great idea Amanda.  There's also kind of a metaphorical quality to his character, what he represents.

My understanding is that the name Aguirre translates to "eagle-eyed".  He can be seen as kind of a God figure: bringing the pair together, sending them off on their way, then "casting them out of the Garden" at the end, blocking later re-entry.

I think his physical portrayal in the film may support this — the way he's photographed, positioned and blocked.

He's in a medium shot such as Amanda's first picture relatively rarely; he's usually framed fairly close (maybe to emphasize his gaze). And he views the boys either from above (from the trailer doorway, when he spies on them, and when he speaks to Jack from horseback) or from behind a desk (sitting in judgment).
« Last Edit: June 15, 2008, 12:49:01 pm by LauraGigs »

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Joe Aguirre: what do you think of this character as portrayed in the movie?
« Reply #118 on: January 11, 2008, 10:36:37 am »
I think his trailer office is particularly important.  If other folks have better images of his trailer interior... I'd be really grateful. :) There are so many details in this office and some crucial bits of information that get revealed at different times... especially the binoculars that he hangs on the wall behind him.  Of course, when Jack and Ennis are in his trailer together the binoculars are concealed in their case and when Jack comes back alone the next summer to ask for a job the binoculars are hanging in the same spot, but outside their case.  So, Jack is the only one who ever really understands the extent of Aguirre's ability to watch them... Ennis never even sees those binoculars at the beginning.  If Ennis had more of an idea about Aguirre's interest in watching them... I wonder how different things would have been between Jack and Ennis during their summer.


I agree about the interior of Aguirres office being a very intersting subject. Since this doesn't only relate to Aguirre himself, but also to Ennis and Jack, and also heavily mingles with symbolism in BBM,  I'll start a new thread about it with some interesting pics of the office.


Here's the thread about Aguirre's trailer:
http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,16233.0.html



One pic of Aguirre himself. This is after Jack asked for Ennis and when Aguirre holds his "Twist, you guys wasn't getting paid to leave the dogs babysit the sheep while you stemmed the rose." speech.




Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Joe Aguirre: what do you think of this character as portrayed in the movie?
« Reply #119 on: January 11, 2008, 10:47:16 am »
Does anyone have better images of the interior of Aguirre's trailer?  I'd also be interested in seeing a photo of him from the beginning in his office when he has sunglasses sticking out of his jacket pocket. 

Sunglasses are a famous cinematic prop used to suggest the idea of a powerful (or threatening) observer whose eyes are covered so that the object of his gaze does not have the same level of power in returning the gaze or analyzing him directly.  Hitchcock is the most famous example of a director who uses sunglasses in this way (he even uses rearview mirrors in significant ways, as of course, we also see in BBM).

Laura, I think it's absolutely right that Aguirre takes on a very particular allegorical role having to do with authority and with the power of looking/observation.
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie