'..he's never been very mechanical..'
by myownprivateidaho 2 days ago (Mon Dec 3 2007 10:19:41)
UPDATED Mon Dec 3 2007 10:57:32
Whilst Lashawn is dancing with Jack at the 1978 whateveritis... she says Randall has 'never been very mechanical'.. Is this ment to solidify the audience's suspicions that he's gay in time for the conversation that immediatley follows... It kind of links in with Jack dropping the keys and not being a good shot.. etc stuff like that.. a bit stereotypical really, i dunno.. I was reading the Brokeback page on wikipedia and found this interesting..
"Sex researcher Fritz Klein also asserted his opinion that the movie was "a nice film with two main characters who were bisexual," and further analyzed that Jack is more "toward the gay side of bisexuality" and Ennis is "a bit more toward the straight side of being bisexual."[33]
.. Ok so this guy calls it a 'nice film'.. sounds imaginative.. What he has to say slightly annoys me.. and I don't think I agree with it..
So what did you think about all the 'non-masculine' traits being dropped in to confirm suspicions, or add sway to the character's sexual orientation?..
anyone?..
Thought i'd add in response:
..sorry i didn't explain my point properly.. I totally agree with Kinsey.. people tend not to be a simple one or the other.. I myself am one of them!.. what i didn't like about old Fritz Klein's statement was the fact that he stated Ennis was 'straighter' than Jack.. therefore slightly backtracking on his original theory that the characters were bisexual.. I know it's on a scale of 1 to 10.. but was Ennis 'straighter' because he could shoot properly and kept himself to himself ?
Re: '..he's never been very mechanical..'
by tomtrueman 2 days ago (Mon Dec 3 2007 10:35:27)
You won't like this, but I think Fritz Klein is right about Ennis and Jack. People always seem to forget that according to the Kinsey studies, MOST men are bisexual to some degree, with only five percent each being exclusively gay OR exclusively heterosexual.
People seem to think sexuality is an "either this or that" issue, when it isn't at all. They constantly try to jam everyone into one of only two pigeonholes. Of course, in our homophobic society, most guys would rather saw their own arm off than acknowledge that they've ever been attracted to another man, but the statistics show that most have.
As for Randall not being mechanical, it might play into the stereotypes but it certainly isn't necessarily an indicator of gayness.
I'm much more mechanically minded than any of my straight brothers. The people at my office were impressed that, when I bought my latest condominium, yes, I did all the interior decoration as per the stereotype -- but I ALSO did all of the carpentry, millwork, plumbing upgrades, and all the electrical installations myself too, replacing wall switches and hanging chandeliers myself.
Re: '..he's never been very mechanical..'
by myownprivateidaho 2 days ago (Mon Dec 3 2007 10:52:35)
UPDATED Mon Dec 3 2007 10:56:50
No.. sorry i didn't explain my point properly.. I totally agree with Kinsey.. people tend not to be a simple one or the other.. I myself am one of them!.. what i didn't like about old Fritz Klein's statement was the fact that he stated Ennis was 'straighter' than Jack.. therefore slightly backtracking on his original theory that the characters were bisexual.. I know it's on a scale of 1 to 10.. but was Ennis 'straighter' because he could shoot properly, and kept himself to himself?
Re: '..he's never been very mechanical..'
by tomtrueman 2 days ago (Mon Dec 3 2007 11:43:30)
I see what you mean, myownprivateidaho. Maybe what Klein meant was that Jack was more open to other same-sex relationships (such as Randall, and the Mexican hustler) -- whereas outside of Jack, Ennis didn't seem to be very interested in other men at all, and was seeing Cassie. That would make Ennis seem to gravitate more towards the lower end of the Kinsey scale, while Jack was at the higher end of it.
There are guys around who are basically straight and think of themselves that way, but they'll have a "special friend" that they mess around with, without thinking that that means they are gay at all. It more like "friends with benefits".
I've known a lot of gay men who have straight friends whom they "service" on a regular basis, in a no-strings-attached kind of relationship. I myself have helped guys out when their girlfriends were being difficult. It's fun for me and it makes him feel better. Why not?
Re: '..he's never been very mechanical..'
by myownprivateidaho 2 days ago (Mon Dec 3 2007 12:06:02)
UPDATED Mon Dec 3 2007 12:07:33
Yes.. but I think what i'm trying to get at is the fact that these observational statements are just that.. observational.. i mean Ennis was so inhibited about relationships full stop, not to mention same-sex ones.. His feelings were kept in a box, he was on auto-pilot.. living how he thought he should be.. not how he wanted to.. I doubt he ever really 'loved' any of the women he was with.. sorry i'm getting lost.. I think the point that I am trying to make is that just as you are guilty until proven otherwise, you are presumed straight until proven otherwise.. I mean Ennis could have been 'gayer' in his head then Jack, but nowone would know, because he never showed it.. i don't know i'm confusing myself now..
Re: '..he's never been very mechanical..'
by jaaguir 2 days ago (Mon Dec 3 2007 11:24:40)
UPDATED Mon Dec 3 2007 11:27:28
I think there are at least two ways to understand that remark:
1- yes, it plays on a gay stereotype
2- it's thematically linked to other elements in the movie, like a net. You think about the other lines of dialogue that are in the movie about fixing trucks, and then the broken trucks themselves (the one that stopped Ennis' schooling, Jack's truck when they came down from Brokeback, and I may be forgetting some other), and how all of it serves as metaphor of the two characters' opposing traits.
This has been commented in the board better than I can.
Re: '..he's never been very mechanical..'
by GeorgeObliqueStrokeXR40 1 day ago (Tue Dec 4 2007 05:39:50)
UPDATED Tue Dec 4 2007 06:07:02
One of the truly brilliant aspects of BbM is its playing against stereotypes:
1. Ennis the laconic cowboy type - his silence comes from fear.
2. Jack the dreamer - who wants more out of life than just passing for straight.
3. Lureen the female predator - smart "blonde" with a head for business.
4. Alma the embittered ex-wife - who still loves Ennis more than he will ever understand.
5. John Twist the abusive father - who didn't seem much troubled about his son being gay.
6. Mrs Twist the Pentecostal Christian - who understood the nature of her son's relationship with Ennis, and lead Ennis to find closure in Jack's room.
7. Alma Jr. who loves her daddy - and may be more like him than he realizes, since she seems to know more about him than she is willing to tell him directly.
8. Lureen's blowhard dad - who is put in his place by a gay man.
9. Ennis, the protective gay father - shielding his daughters from "slop bucket mouths" who speak disparagingly of women.
10. Randall the Aggie - who is not very mechanical.
11. Alma the seeming victim - who seems pretty calculating in getting what she wants for her children.
12. Ennis's father who was a good roper - and possibly a murderer. Does Ennis love him? admire him? fear him?
Anyone who describes BbM as a simple story isn't looking beyond the surface of plot mechanics.
BbM is far from simple...
