Author Topic: How Did Jack Die?  (Read 28416 times)

Offline ednbarby

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Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2006, 09:29:53 am »
"I'm the son of rage and love." Just SPOT ON to describe Jack! Did you find this yourself? (*Bows in admiration*)

It's from Green Day's epic rock operetta, "Jesus of Suburbia."  There are several lines in there and in other songs on the same album that aptly describe Jack, like "And there's nothing wrong with me - this is how I'm supposed to be" and "In a land of make-believe, they don't believe in me" and "I leave behind this hurricane of fucking lies" and "I've walked this line a million and one fucking times, but not this time" and "I'm the patron saint of their denial" and "I'm walking on the line that divides me somewhere in my mind, on the borderline of the edge and where I walk alone."

The very first line of "Jesus of Suburbia" is "I'm the son of rage and love."  And the very best one.

« Last Edit: June 04, 2006, 09:43:47 am by ednbarby »
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Offline bbm_stitchbuffyfan

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Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #31 on: June 05, 2006, 11:48:34 am »
Quote
I agree ednbarby. Except the Jimbo/bar scene also serves to precipitate Jack into marriage.

How do you figure this? Was Jack trying to cover his tracks or something?

I agree that we are not supposed to know exactly how Jack died and for all we know, it could've been either way. It makes the story even more powerful and a nice benefit is that either way, be it a freak accident or a gay-bashing, the story flows beautifully.

(I have gone back and forth on which fate Jack met, as Ennis has, but lately, I've been thinking it was the tire iron.)
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Offline cmr107

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Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #32 on: June 05, 2006, 02:50:14 pm »
I think if we were really supposed to know how he died, we wouldn't need to have this discussion. Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad discussion, I'm just saying that I don't think either Annie Proulx or anyone involved with the movie intended for us to know for sure.

Offline opinionista

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Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #33 on: June 05, 2006, 03:53:46 pm »
I think Jack's death was an accident. But Proulx is ambiguous about it to show Ennis' state of mind. Ennis has no proof whatsoever to think that Jack was indeed killed. It's all in his mind, it's part of his fears and perceptions of life. 
« Last Edit: June 05, 2006, 05:22:43 pm by opinionista »
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Offline amh

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Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #34 on: June 05, 2006, 07:42:27 pm »
From the time I first saw the movie Dec. 31 until about two months ago I was squarely in the gay-bash camp, but I've since switched to the "we'll never know for sure" camp.  That's what too much time spent on Internet discussion boards will do to you. 
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Offline delalluvia

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Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #35 on: June 05, 2006, 08:23:52 pm »
I think if we were really supposed to know how he died, we wouldn't need to have this discussion. Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad discussion, I'm just saying that I don't think either Annie Proulx or anyone involved with the movie intended for us to know for sure.

Bingo!  Well said.  I think Ang Lee wanted it to be unambiguous, but as he tried to make it work, the story wouldn't let him.  ;D  So, in agreement with the writers and screenplay writers and Fate itself, Ang Lee gave in and it ended ambiguously.

I personally think it was an accident, but agree we'll never know.

Offline David In Indy

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Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #36 on: June 19, 2006, 02:12:29 am »
Phillip -

I think Jack was killed in a gay bashing attack.

It looks like many people here agree with me.
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Offline Rayn

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Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #37 on: July 09, 2006, 01:38:27 pm »
I think Jack's death was an accident. But Proulx is ambiguous about it to show Ennis' state of mind. Ennis has no proof whatsoever to think that Jack was indeed killed. It's all in his mind, it's part of his fears and perceptions of life. 

I agree with opinionsta. 

If Jack were murdered, then the tire that exploded, the rim and the rest of the scene would have had to be staged by this killers and I don't think such a thing is as believable as a simple accident.  I reason that it was an accident and the rest was in Ennis' mind, a product of his childhood fears of gay bashing that had been seeded so well by his cruel father. In the book it actually says when Ennis talks to Jack's father, he comes to the conclusion that Jack was killed, but I believe, although he will sort it out in time, he can never know for sure, nor can we.

Rayn
« Last Edit: July 10, 2006, 10:47:36 am by Rayn »

Offline JT

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Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2006, 02:03:11 pm »
I beleive Jack died in a gay-bashing because it fit so well with the story's theme of homophobia.  From Earl's death to Aguirre's discusted look to Jimbo's put down, they all are hostile.  Jack could easily be shot by Aguirre or bash to death by Jimbo and his gang of clowns.  Plus, the things we seem to fear the most often happen to the people we love the most.  But like everyone else, including Ennis, we will never know for sure.

Offline Rayn

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Re: How Did Jack Die?
« Reply #39 on: July 22, 2006, 02:15:02 am »
Jack could easily be .... bashed to death by Jimbo and his gang of clowns. 


Murdered by a gang of rodeo clowns!  :o

I can't help but see them all in costume too.  Damn, now there's an image only the "Killer Clown" John Wayne Gacy would enjoy.  What a twisted idea, but we all know, it's possible in real life too.  Yikes... I don't like to focus too long on such f**ked up true to life things, I'm outa here.   Later! 

Rayn