Author Topic: The Importance Of Affection  (Read 8498 times)

Offline "Joseph Golden"

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The Importance Of Affection
« on: January 01, 2008, 09:26:18 am »
The affections are like lightning: you cannot tell where they will strike till they have fallen.

I'm going to discuss Affection, and how it played such a big part in the movie, If i miss anything, Please add your interpretations and Comments.

When Ennis and Jack first meet, They sake hands, This is a friendly way of saying "Hi how are you, nice to meet you" Ennis doesn't even seem to be interested in Jack, So Jack takes the lead, and introduces himself, They make eye contact, which is important, There Hand shake is short ans sweet, just like the sex. Ennis's doesn't want to give to much of himself away, but jack is forceful.

After Ennis falls off the his horse he comes back to the tent hurt, blood pouring down his face, like a child that had fallen off his bike, Ennis has come back to Jack to feel better and get mended. Ennis sits next to jack, instead of going to the river to wash his face, He is expecting Jack to mend him, Jack is worried, not like a friend, in that situation, some people would laugh. Jack cares about him, He tries to mend him, but Ennis stops him, WHY? Ennis needs to take control, he doesn't want things to get out of hand, he doesn't want Jack to put sail on a wound, Jack is gentle, Ennis wants him to stay that way. Jacks face afterwards, is, Why in the hell did you come back like this if you didn't want me to fix you, his confused, he wants to fix him, help him, Comfort him!

When Ennis shots the Elk, Jack pushes him, Jack is trying to say "Come on Ennis's, You took the lead when you got hurt, take it now" He wants Ennis to make the first move, Times creeping up on them. Ennis pushes him back "Sick and tired of you dumb arse miss in" This is Ennis's saying, I'm making the moves, I'm hinting, I'm sick and tired of you missing you opportunities. Jack wants Ennis to take the lead, And Ennis wants Jack to take it, There confused. But here the short affection they experience is so important, This is where Jack realises that he has to make the first move, he looks at Ennis like, "Okay, Cowboy, If you want me to do it, I'm up for it"

In the tent scene, Jack is first confused why Ennis is hesitant to get in the tent, his making his move, but Ennis is probably thinking, "Oh no, Cowboy I'm not making it that easy" But eventually gives, The tent is so small, there bodies are touching, they are warming each other up, So is there Passion, there control over themselves is diminishing. So Jack puts Ennis's hand on his Doodle, Jacks saying "Okay cowboy, How would you like this" Ennis takes while to get up, For a brief moment Ennis was enjoying it, He wanted to touch Jack's penis, he wanted to size him up, but his demons close in on him, so he tries to resist, Jack is thinking "What the Hell, You wanted me to take control, I'm taking it" So he continues to temp Ennis, Most people would have backed out, Not Jack, his determined. he takes off his Jacket, his first layer of openness. Ennis then takes control, he hurtles Jack on all fours, No Tenderness, No Kissing, No Passion, No Affection, Not the way Jack likes it. WHY,
Maybe because he is horny. I don't think Jack expected it to be this way. Remember jack takes his pants off. And the way that they end up having sex it doesn't involve Jacks penis. One hing i noticed is the pain Jack goes through in this scene. I don't know much about anal sex. But i think Jacks might be a virgin. Because it hurts him a lot. I'd assume that it doesn't hurt so much if his done it more than once.

Then they have there conversation about "Not being Queer" There are a few important things we learn, Ennis says "This is a one shot thing we got going on here" Ennis is trying to say that, this is our one chance to have a relationship - I know its hard to believe - His trying to show Jack that on this mountain we can maintain something, and if we wanted to we could in the real world, but he tells Jack, "You got one chance, to make this happen" But Jack misunderstands the conversation. He thinks its Ennis taking the control, he thinks Ennis wants to be the one to making the decisions. Jack makes a fatal error.
This has nothing to do with affection, but Its important.

The next scene is where they are in the tent the second time, Ennis enters holding his hat, his shield ,he sits next to jack, Jack than places his hand on his arm, Why do we hold someones hand?, To guide them, to show that "I got, I wont let you fall" Jack than removes the hat, Jacks telling Ennis that you don't need this in here, You don't need to hide your feelings and desires. In our home, There are no rules, No judgements, no society conformity's. It's safe. Jack places his hand on his cheek, This is something lovers do, jack is showing Ennis that this one shot thing, isn't Sex, Its "Love" This is the beginning of a relationship, I hope you know this Ennis.
Than they kiss, ultimately the biggest sign of affection, if done correctly. I think Jack does a good job.

Ennis, says "Sorry" his apologizing for not letting this happen earlier, They both wanted it to, and the movies about wasted time and other things, So they had already wasted a month, which Ennis See's all the missed opportunities that started from day one. For example, Jack all ways wining about having to sleep with the sheep, Ennis thought he was complaining about the job, Here's where Ennis missed the underlying fact, Jack wanted them to sleep in the small tent, Jack wanted them to be together. He says sorry..........., Jack says, "Its alright"

Than Jack leans down and rest Ennis's head on his chest, His heart beat, His showing Ennis that this is real, Listen to my heart, to how i feel about you, to the divine intensity i get from you. I love you Ennis. This ain't a one shot thing. Ennis becomes eratic from the warm his receiving, Ennis's father took Ennis to a "Dark" "Cold" place, Jack is bring him from that. His showing him the light, the warmth. The place that Ennis couldn't get away from has just suddenly disappeared, Forever, Until Jack stuffs up anyway.

Jack rolls him over, taking control, which Ennis wanted, kisses him passionately, his sealing the deal, Everything here is established. There life is set out. There love is strong and there no turning back.

Jack and Ennis playing, this is there fun side, throughout the movie we've seen there Passionate outburst of sex (That wasn't as surprising as it seems) There Affectionate love for each other, Now we get to see a playful side. Here we are just seeing that thought there intensifying love, there is moments where there just have good old rough sex, And nothing else matters.

Next, The play fight that Jack mistakes as a time to play, but in fact its Ennis's demon slowly creeping in. The fight begins as a playful tussle, but becomes more. The work Jack has put into Ennis is begging to fade, the real world is looming. So they try to take there aggression out on each other. Which ends with Jack hurting Ennis. Jack has never done this, Jack tries to comfort him like he did when Ennis fell of the bear. Jack is expecting Ennis to do accept his affection, but is shocked when his punched. This is where Jack realises that Ennis is falling back into the dark. Back to where Earl died. All the work his put into him is fading, jack doesn't know what to do. Ennis punches him because, Jack has no idea what pain is, Jack thinks that a little blood nose is all that's hurt him. No Jack hurt him more, in the second tent night. Ennis was alright in the dark, he'd adjusted to it. but Jack went along a took him out of his comfort zone. So Ennis is showing Jack how foolish his being ny assuming the blood nose is all there worries. The questions is. "Jack are you going to take the lead again, What are you going to do?"

The "Goodbye Scene" after Brokeback. This is where Jack makes a fatal mistake that paths the rest of there lives. First, Jack asks Ennis if his coming back next year, jack is assuming all they have is what's up on Brokeback. Jacks is waiting for Ennis to take the lead, Ennis is waiting on Jack. After Ennis tells Jack "I guess I'll see you around" you notice that he lingers. His waiting on jack. This is Jacks chance for the life he wanted. This is where Jack can rescue Ennis from the dark or let him go back into it. Jack misunderstands this situation and doesn't say anything. Jack is waiting for a sign. like the Elk shooting scene. But he doesn't get it.
Again no affection, but its important. Notices is all about control.
And the first/last lines are connected. First convo "Nice to know you Ennis" Last covo, "I guess I'll be seeing you around"

Next, the Reunion scene, The first thing they do is hug, Which is a friendly way of showing affection, They are both seeing if the others real, they don't want too let go, bring there penis's together, to show that down there is just as excited. Than they kiss, There longing for each other is showed here, the uncontrollability to refrain themselves from there affection. There one shot thing on Brokeback isn't over, by kissing there getting that bond back. The one they hadn't lost. Than they grab at each others face. There trying there best not to punch each other, In happiness. There trying to show each other, they should have never left Brokeback, never left each other, Jack is hoping he can bring Ennis back, Ennis knowing that its to late. There in two different worlds. Then Ennis brushes his head against Jacks in affection, Telling Jack "I still love ya" Even if it's basically over. Unconsciously

The Hotel scene, A lot that happens here is through words, Which i find a little disappointing, I think Ang should have shown us there passion and intensity was still there. Like in the Second tent scene. But as i just realised, It wasn't there. Another point of the movie is that Jack can never bring Ennis back from the dark. But, Here we see Jack holding Ennis, not like it was in Brokeback, Ennis in another world, Here he is hoping that its just enough to get Ennis back, His holding onto the last thread of Brokeback, he cant/wont let go.

Than Ennis opens to Jack about how he got in the dark in the first place, Again expressed in words. Here Jack should have realised that its to late, maybe he knows it, but here his gone from Dreaming to Hoping. After the flashback scene, We see jack rub Ennis cheek in affection, You notice that its not the same as brokeback, its not enough, Jack had already let Ennis go, Not read the signs correctly, and let Ennis down in a big way. Jack's telling Ennis that its alright. I'll never let that happen to you, Ennis not fearing his own life. But more so Jacks.

16 Years Pass

First we see that in the tent, we see a different scene, Ennis is holding onto Jack, This time it isn't Ennis that's slipping away. Its Jack. Jack cant stand it. Jacks talking about Other people, Ennis knows the chooses his made were wrong, And he fears that one day Jack will just not turn up.

The final scene, A lot is expressed in words, The argument they have. But when Ennis breaks down, jack catches him, which shows that Jack ain't going anywhere. His still here, Jacks tries to comfort him. He knows that's there's another fella. He knows there planning on going to his Daddy's farm. Is this the finally time, No, jack Catches him. just like it was on Brokeback Jack is still trying to pick up the pieces. This wasn't Jacks intention. Throughout the movie, with the exception Brokeback. Ennis has had control over himself. His been able to stand tall. In the second tent scene we seen Ennis weak. Now we are seeing it again. But it doesn't turn out like it did on Brokeback. Ennis is to far gone. So to speak. He tells Jack he cant "Handle this anymore" - Or something like this. He can't handle being away from Jack, cant handle societies nonacceptance. Jack can. That's the important part of the scene. That's why jack catches him.

The final scene of affection. Ennis embracing Jack from behind on Brokeback Mountain. The reason Jack remembers this at this particular moment is because it was Ennis who was showing affection. Not Jack. in the whole film this is the only time it happens. It shows that Jack never really got what he wanted. Even though he went to Mexico and had sex with other men. He never was able to get the kind of love that he was subject to on Brokeback Mountain. Also he knows that that slow solidified embrace is long gone. Life will never be that way again and Ennis will never embrace him the same again. This is the most important part of affection we see. Also with the second tent scene. Let be...

Conclusion,

Some of what i wrote didn't turn out to be much of affection and more my perception. In the movie affection is important. It is placed in at the right time to get the right effect its after. Whether a sign of love or friendship, they just didn't get enough. I love seeing the affection in the movie. And i wish there was more.

BTW, I wrote most of this late at night, and its probably hard to read, or understand. Sorry, If you want to add you thoughts please do.....  :)

Don’t lie, don’t try to fool me, Ennis. I know what it means. Jack Twist? Jack Nasty.

injest

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Re: The Importance Of Affection
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2008, 10:42:00 am »
Wow, Melb boy....

there is a LOT of meat there....you really gave me a lot to think about. Thank you for sharing, and welcome to Bettermost!

Interesting how you laid out the intentions or motivations behind each scene and in a way I had not thought about in a long time. I think you may be spot on!

Offline SFEnnisSF

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Re: The Importance Of Affection
« Reply #2 on: January 02, 2008, 06:23:01 pm »
Perhaps this thread should be moved to the Open Forum

Offline "Joseph Golden"

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Re: The Importance Of Affection
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2008, 03:56:32 am »
Why?

Cause it possess more questions than it Answers?
Don’t lie, don’t try to fool me, Ennis. I know what it means. Jack Twist? Jack Nasty.

injest

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Re: The Importance Of Affection
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2008, 08:19:43 am »
Why?

Cause it possess more questions than it Answers?

more like it will get more responses there.  ;)

Offline TOoP/Bruce

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Re: The Importance Of Affection
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2008, 07:59:55 am »
At the suggestion of the moderators, I have moved this new topic to the Open Forum (it was originally posted in 'IMDb Remarkable Writings Rewound' which is more of "living archive") for the purpose of attracting more responses. 

Melb has been a very active contributor to IMDb of late, and I want to say welcome to our "other home"!

Bruce (aka "GeorgeObliqueStrokexr40")
Former IMDb Name: True Oracle of Phoenix / TOoP (I pronounce it "too - op") / " in fire forged,  from ash reborn" / Currently: GeorgeObliqueStrokeXR40

Offline "Joseph Golden"

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Re: The Importance Of Affection
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2008, 09:38:54 am »
Thanks George, I should have joined here mouths ago, but i didn't get around to it, This place is way better then IMDB.

I'm also glad your here,

 ;D
Don’t lie, don’t try to fool me, Ennis. I know what it means. Jack Twist? Jack Nasty.

Offline TOoP/Bruce

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Re: The Importance Of Affection
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2008, 10:14:06 am »
Thanks George, I should have joined here mouths ago, but i didn't get around to it, This place is way better then IMDB.

I'm also glad your here,

 ;D

Why thank you!  I am also glad you found your way here! 

This is a great community founded by many people who originally were from IMDb.  I think you will enjoy the many things this on-line community has to offer!
Former IMDb Name: True Oracle of Phoenix / TOoP (I pronounce it "too - op") / " in fire forged,  from ash reborn" / Currently: GeorgeObliqueStrokeXR40

Offline Sandy

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Re: The Importance Of Affection
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2008, 01:06:34 pm »
Affection-gosh where to start!

For me, there are two main scenes which demonstrate affection (with no sexual connotations).

First, we have the amazing dozy embrace.  What makes this scene for me is the fact that Ennis takes Jack’s lapel in his hand and strokes it.  He hasn’t just grabbed him, or even thrown his arms around him: he is taking and breathing in as much of Jack as he can.  This stroking epitomises affection for me.  Yes, I know he didn’t stroke Jack’s skin, but that would take away from the scene.  It’s cold and he would have to put his cold hands down his shirt (!), or it may have led to sex.  By rubbing the nearest part of Jack to his hand, he is showing his contentment.

Secondly, there is the ‘no reins’ scene where Jack strokes Ennis’ ear.  Wow! That single touch shows the intimacy and affection that they have!  Ennis looks as if he is about to flinch then leans in to enjoy the touch.  This is a touch which shows Jack reaching out to comfort Ennis at the nearest point to him, he touches his ear and says, “I hear you” (maybe I’m stretching the symbolism too far!) and Ennis is allowing himself to be reassured. 

Marvellous.

Offline TOoP/Bruce

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Re: The Importance Of Affection
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2008, 03:14:14 pm »
There's also that "sleeping spooned" scene when they are older...
Former IMDb Name: True Oracle of Phoenix / TOoP (I pronounce it "too - op") / " in fire forged,  from ash reborn" / Currently: GeorgeObliqueStrokeXR40

Offline Artiste

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Re: The Importance Of Affection
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2008, 03:51:24 pm »
Just discovered your thread Melb_boy88 and find it great!!

I think I had posed about affection in one of my threads or someone's?? Like you, I would have liked much, much more scenes of affection between Ennis and Jack!! Therefore, am happy to praise your thread!! May it continue... long times!!

Concerning this as you say Melb: "You got one chance, to make this happen" But Jack misunderstands the conversation. He thinks its Ennis taking the control, he thinks Ennis wants to be the one to making the decisions. Jack makes a fatal error.
This has nothing to do with affection, but Its important.


.....
May I reply as to question that! I think that it is the opposite?? Maybe??

.....

Which scenes would you have liked more affection or have added?? May I ask you and to all too?

Hugs!!  May Hollywood and others add more and more affection gay scenes in their movies!!

injest

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Re: The Importance Of Affection
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2008, 04:02:30 pm »
There's also that "sleeping spooned" scene when they are older...

loved that scene...it reminded me of the first night in the tent...Ennis behind Jack but this time his arm was around him by his own concious will..

Offline Artiste

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Re: The Importance Of Affection
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2008, 04:19:40 pm »
That scene: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: TOoP/Bruce on Today at 02:14:14 PM
There's also that "sleeping spooned" scene when they are older...


loved that scene...it reminded me of the first night in the tent...Ennis behind Jack but this time his arm was around him by his own concious will..
 
 

...

I do not remember that scene and dire to see it!! Can you give pic of it?

Hugs!

Offline SFEnnisSF

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Re: The Importance Of Affection
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2008, 05:37:02 pm »
That scene: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: TOoP/Bruce on Today at 02:14:14 PM
There's also that "sleeping spooned" scene when they are older...


loved that scene...it reminded me of the first night in the tent...Ennis behind Jack but this time his arm was around him by his own concious will..
 
 

...

I do not remember that scene and dire to see it!! Can you give pic of it?

Hugs!


Here is a picture of it.  (the one on the bottom).  It was shown right after the delivery of the line: "Sometimes I miss you so much I can hardly stand it."


Offline Sandy

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Re: The Importance Of Affection
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2008, 06:09:33 pm »
Remember when Ennis saw the shirts for the first time: he held them close to his chest and buried his face in them.  I read sheer, desperate love but hey-affection forms a part that!

Offline "Joseph Golden"

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Re: The Importance Of Affection
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2008, 09:11:41 am »
First we see that in the tent, we see a different scene, Ennis is holding onto Jack, This time it isn't Ennis that's slipping away. Its Jack. Jack cant stand it. Jacks talking about Other people, Ennis knows the chooses his made were wrong, And he fears that one day Jack will just not turn up.


This was my explanation on the "Tent Scene - Where Ennis is hugging Jack.

BTW, I loved the pic.....

Artiste
May I reply as to question that! I think that it is the opposite?? Maybe??

Yeah, Opines are defiantly welcome.

Sandy
First, we have the amazing dozy embrace.  What makes this scene for me is the fact that Ennis takes Jack's lapel in his hand and strokes it.  He hasn't just grabbed him, or even thrown his arms around him: he is taking and breathing in as much of Jack as he can.  This stroking epitomises affection for me.  Yes, I know he didn't stroke Jack's skin, but that would take away from the scene.  It's cold and he would have to put his cold hands down his shirt (!), or it may have led to sex.  By rubbing the nearest part of Jack to his hand, he is showing his contentment.

Secondly, there is the No rein's scene where Jack strokes Ennis ear.  Wow! That single touch shows the intimacy and affection that they have!  Ennis looks as if he is about to flinch then leans in to enjoy the touch.  This is a touch which shows Jack reaching out to comfort Ennis at the nearest point to him, he touches his ear and says, “I hear you (maybe I'm stretching the symbolism too far!) and Ennis is allowing himself to be reassured. 


You explained it better than i did.  :laugh:





Don’t lie, don’t try to fool me, Ennis. I know what it means. Jack Twist? Jack Nasty.

Offline Artiste

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Re: The Importance Of Affection
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2008, 11:28:45 am »
Thanks melb_boy88, thanks Sandy, thanks sfericsf!!!

Be happy to get more comments from you melb and Sandy and sferics, and from others too!!

I appreciate your pic sfericsf and thanks very much!! Hard for me to think since I just got a call that someone's mother passed away! So I see comfort as you can see worth of living in the comfort of that image divided into two parts!! Yes, it is in that bottom part that Ennis puts his arm over Jack!! We all need such caress and comfort!!

May I restate: Which scenes would you have liked more affection or have added?? May I ask you and to all too?

Any you would have added??

Hugs!! May we all humans seek and get comfort gestures from one another: straight, bi-s, gays, others!! And cherish them always!!

Offline "Joseph Golden"

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Re: The Importance Of Affection
« Reply #17 on: January 06, 2008, 11:39:18 am »
Which scenes would you have liked more affection or have added?? May I ask you and to all too?

Apart from more sex scenes, which i mean this in the most UN dirtiest way.

In the "Second Tent Scene" we seen a moment of love, affection and disire. But most importantly, we see the pain the two men go through just to be able to reach there full desires.

Its a beautiful moment. The movie didn't have enough of them. Throughtout the movie we seen heartache and pain. We seen lives lost and lives unfulfilled.

I think there should have been more acts of affection. I wanted to feel there love and passion a lot more. Thoughout there 16 years of a secret affair all we see of this is at the end.

More, I say.  :D
Don’t lie, don’t try to fool me, Ennis. I know what it means. Jack Twist? Jack Nasty.

injest

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Re: The Importance Of Affection
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2008, 11:49:58 am »
Yes, I would have liked to see another love scene later in the movie (not even a sex scene necessarily  but SOME form of affection)

they rarely even touch each other in the later part of the film!

and I have read all the theories about less is more etc....and that more sex would have taken away from the movie...but I think that is just making lemonade out of lemons! I wanted more love scenes!

Offline Sandy

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Re: The Importance Of Affection
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2008, 12:09:32 pm »
I completely agree with the fact that there are not enough love scenes in the latter part of the film.  I am not necessarily meaning sex scenes (although, of course, they would be welcome!), simply explicitly showing a little more love. 

This is because, at first glance, it seems that their relationship has become more friend-like than lovers, however looking deeper, a long term relationship does grow into an easy comfort and becomes more about making love than furious, insatiable lust.  I would therefore have loved to have seen them grow as a couple, i.e. holding hands etc.  That being said, we never saw them share a cigarette or drink from the same bottle at the start of the film.  That comes later, during the "miss you so much" scene at the lake (or loch as we Scots say!).

I firmly believe that the opposite of love/hate is indifference so their blow up at the end and Jack supporting Ennis shows the undying love and affection that still exists between them.

Lastly, I'm sorry to hear about your friend's loss Artiste.  I'm sure I speak for all when I say pass on our condolences.

Sandy

Offline Artiste

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Re: The Importance Of Affection
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2008, 01:41:49 pm »
While I tried to post this, I noticed that time ran out and was forced therefore to re-start this: hope this is OK?!! In reply to melb_boy88 thread concerning COMFORT:

Thanks Sandy, thanks injest, thanks melb_boy88!!!

Thanks for the condolences Sandy! The lady who passed away was the mother of the wife of one of my straight brothers. She did seek comfort in her ways. But became diabetic! Since it is hard to be one with that, maybe on a thread that can be talked about in order to help and prevent that even?? This seems to be more and more common, and discomforting to live with!!

Like you Sandy, I would love to have seen much more love scenes... even sex ones too!! I wonder why not a 69 one?

....

Sandy, as affection: holding hands would have been so great!! Possible, where and when??

...

Injest, one or more love-affection scenes like which to be added?? Detail one or more, please??

.......

Melb_boy88, yes more 2nd tent scenes?? Others like you can detail as affection during 16 years??

Awaiting your thoughts and descriptions if you care too do so too,
hugs!!      May affection scenes be with you in it, often!!