Author Topic: The Twist family studies the Gospel of John  (Read 113323 times)

Offline Wayne

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The Twist family studies the Gospel of John
« on: January 05, 2008, 06:27:25 pm »
Glad to see everyone here at Bible study!    :)

Get some tea and toast and some of Shakes's marmalade and let's check out the gospel of John!    :D

   
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

Offline Wayne

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Re: The Twist family studies the Gospel of John
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2008, 06:39:13 pm »
Wikipedia says:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_John

"John is the gospel of belief. It was written to convince people to believe that Jesus is  the Messiah, the Son of God. John's purpose in writing is expressed in the conclusion, 20:30–31: "…these [Miracles of Jesus] are written that you may (come to) believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that through this belief you may have life in his name."

As usual, I think we have a lot of assumptions about what those words mean that may cause us to miss the whole point, even while we're reading it. Wikipedia goes on to say

"John focuses on Jesus' mission to bring the Logos ("Word" or "Reason" or "Rationality") to his disciples."

Logos means not just "word" but also "reason" and "rationality."

Logos is the word we tack on to mean "the systematic study of" or "the science of" - like biology.

So let's start with these first few metaphysical verses and think about what they might mean.
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

Offline Wayne

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Re: The Twist family studies the Gospel of John
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2008, 06:47:46 pm »
one way of thinking of it...

1 In the beginning was Reason, and Reason was with God, and Reason was God.

2 Reason was in the beginning with God.

3 All things through Reason did happen, and without Reason happened not even one thing that hath happened.

4 In Reason was life, and that life was the light of men.

5 And that light did shine in the darkness, and the darkness did not overcome it.
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

Offline Wayne

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Re: The Twist family studies the Gospel of John
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2008, 06:53:37 pm »
Or maybe

1 In the beginning was science. And science was with God, and science was God.
2 Science was in the beginning with God.
3 All things through science did happen, and without science happened not even one thing that hath happened.
4 In science was life, and that life was the light of men.
5 And that light did shine in the darkness, and the darkness did not overcome it.
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

Offline Wayne

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Re: The Twist family studies the Gospel of John
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2008, 06:54:43 pm »
Or

In the beginning was systematic study. Systematic study was with God, and systematic study was God. Systematic study was in the beginning with God.

All things through happened through systematic study, and nothing happened without it. In systematic study was life, and that life was the light of men. That light shone in the darkness, and the darkness did not overcome it.
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

Offline Wayne

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Re: The Twist family studies the Gospel of John
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2008, 07:20:23 pm »
Of the 4 canonical gospels, John is sometimes thought of as the one that most leans toward Gnosticism - a worldview that values knowledge over faith.

There was a strong tradition of gnosticism before Jesus was born, and there were Gnostic sects of Christianity in the first few centuries BC. There were Gnostic gospels, ranging from the Gospel of Thomas, which is probably pretty true to first century Christianity, to the Gospel of Mary which you can read here.

As the Catholic church came to primacy, these sects came to be viewed mostly as heretical. One fault often attributed to the Gnostic tradition is a belief (rejected by the more traditional church) that matter is intrinsically evil, and only the spiritual realm is good.
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

Offline Wayne

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Re: The Twist family studies the Gospel of John
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2008, 07:36:02 pm »
John probably doesn't go that far out on the Gnostic limb, but is generally thought of as the odd-gospel-out when contrasted against the other 3 gospels. Matthew, Mark, and Luke are known as the synoptic gospels and have a great deal of overlapping content, while John seems to be seeing Jesus literally from a different perspective.

For example in the critical scene of the Last Supper, the author of John (whoever it was) is the man who lay with his head against Jesus's breast, and to whom Jesus confides the identity of the one who will betray him.

The author of John identifies himself as "the beloved disciple." Traditionally this author was assumed to be the apostle John, but there are many reasons to question that.

One hypothesis that really caught my attention is that the disciple Jesus loved is actually Lazarus!

http://www.thedisciplewhomjesusloved.com/
http://benwitherington.blogspot.com/2007/01/was-lazarus-beloved-disciple.html
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

Offline Wayne

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Re: The Twist family studies the Gospel of John
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2008, 07:39:33 pm »
Lately I've also wondered if the disciple whom Jesus loved might have been Nicodemus, the rich young man who asks Jesus how to gain eternal life. We are told that he went away sad, but maybe he came back... there are a few parallels.

Maybe we can just keep our eyes open for clues as we read through the gospel of John and see what we think when we are done.
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

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Offline Wayne

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Re: The Twist family studies the Gospel of John
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2008, 07:47:08 pm »
A few other major differences between John and the synoptics (thanks to Wikipedia...)


The Synoptics contain a wealth of stories about Jesus' miracles and healings, but John does not have as many of those stories; John tends to elaborate more heavily on its stories than do the Synoptics.

The healings of demon-possessed people are never mentioned as in the Synoptics.

Most of the action in John takes place in Judaea (including Jerusalem). Only a few events occur in Galilee, and of those, only the feeding of the multitude (6:1–16) and the trip across the Sea of Galilee (6:17–21) are also found in the Synoptics.

Jesus driving the money changers from the temple appears near the beginning of the work. In the Synoptics this occurs late in Jesus' ministry.

The Gospel of John contains 4 visits by Jesus to Jerusalem, each with a Passover celebration. This chronology suggests Jesus' public ministry lasted 3 years. In the synoptic gospels, Jesus makes one trip to Jerusalem in time for the Passover observance.
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don

Offline Wayne

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Re: The Twist family studies the Gospel of John
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2008, 07:52:58 pm »
This last point (John contains 4 visits by Jesus to Jerusalem, each with a Passover celebration) really struck me the last time I read John.  I began to wonder if he was talking about the same trip each time, just going back to the beginning, or inserting information he got from other people.

I got the impression this could be someone who only met Jesus shortly before he died. This would be consistent with the author being Nicodemus, who meets Jesus in Judea the week before he is crucified.

Or maybe this was a friend who lived in Judea, whom Jesus only was able to visit when he was in Judea each year for the passover. This would be consistent with the author being Lazarus, who lived in Bethany near Jerusalem.
When you put people in charge of the government who are committed to proving that it doesn't work, you can be sure that they will cause it to not work.

Don