TOTW 01/08: Do you think Jack was murdered or was it an accident?

[Jeff Wrangler]

Brad, I read your story a few months ago in "Beyond Brokeback" and was moved. Thank you for sharing it with us.

Bill

Ditto what Bill said. It took courage to put it out there in print that way.

Jeff

[serious crayons]

Ineedcrayons, I'd like to point out that the situation you just described isn't that common among gay men either.

No. My only point was that soliciting for or engaging in any kind of sex -- public or otherwise -- with a total stranger is next to unheard of for straight women, aside from prostitutes. Which is at least one big reason straight couples don't get stigmatized for this.

Of course it does happen like that, but it seems many of the men who do things like that are attracted to the danger, or they have compartmentalized their homosexual desires.  They go and take care of it as the need arises, or when they just can't stand not having sex with a man any more, and then they go on about their usually closeted existence.  So it is in some way apt that these men would go to a restroom to "take care of business."

Right. So, indirectly, societal homophobia has forced at least some gay men into having to engage in restroom sex more often -- where else is Larry Craig going to do it?

[Jeff Wrangler]

So, indirectly, societal homophobia has forced at least some gay men into having to engage in restroom sex more often -- where else is Larry Craig going to do it?

He could hire a "masseur" like Ted Haggard. ... 

[Artiste]

News: straights (females and males too) go also to public washrooms to have sex!! Females have asked or tired to force that!!

Also news maybe to some: there are some public parks where sex is OK, like is there in the open either in a known area for gay and/or straight sex!! The public knows and prefers that that continues!!

Of course if Jack used either a park or public washroom, he took a chance to get murdered after or before having been stolen... if stolen, but killed because he tried or wanted sex there... even if not burglarized because some like to bash such in action or pre-action!!

Hugs!!

[moremojo]

I just wanted to chime in, for what it's worth, on your latest point, Artiste, about putative sexual activity on the part of women in public facilities. I was acquainted with a young woman back in circa 1990, who identified as bisexual, and who claimed that, while rare, female-on-female sex in public restrooms had been known to happen. I have not heard or read any evidence of such activity since. Also, in light of Katherine's assertions regarding the rarity of women engaging in sex with strangers, a close friend of mine who is a straight man once opined, several years ago, that, while rare, such women could probably be found. He guessed that if he were to proposition one woman after another in public settings, probably one in about one hundred would agree to a tryst. This all came up in conversation because I had expressed disbelief that any woman would ever enter into such a scenario.

I also wish to commend Brad for his thoughtful and ample explication on his background and perceptions regarding law enforcement and its position towards lesbigay people. You speak from a position of experience, Brad, and I welcome your informative input into this subject. I tend to be distrustful of authority, so often have not thought highly of law enforcement regarding the sensitivity and awareness of its officers towards oppressed groups of people, but your words remind me that I should give these men and women (who are, after all, necessary and valued public servants) the benefit of the doubt. I do persist in my belief that what the local police did to my friend was wrong and misguided (if not necessarily homophobic at root), but concede that this one incident should not be used to make sweeping generalizations of an entire profession.

[Artiste]

Thanks very much moremojo!!

I agree with you that sex is by women too, woman with woman, in public washrooms. In my case, at least twice, I remember by for now, that a female entered the washroom and wanted it; the second time, was another female. I, a male, (gay male), have been cruised also by males at times, in public washrooms; maybe most gay males have - I do not know if most straight males have!! ?? But such cruising I think is rare now?? I refrain from that as I would likely or probably be murdered or beaten or stolen there too by such a cruiser!! Some murders  do happen there!!

Concerning public parks and sex there, I do not see anything wrong with that in SOME parks, that the whole public knows about - since even straights have sex there: female with male!! It would be more OK I guess and hope that signs are put there to say so!! And so far I have seen discreet sex in many parks - nothing else- no shown cheeks to ones passing by!! I do not go for sex in parks these days!! I have... years ago, but rarely and discreetly and went to his residence!!

Like you, I think that your friend did not merit at all that to him!!

I think sex outdoors is wonderful!!

At not too far from my art studio near San Francisco where I created paintings, the daily newspaper had partly headlined about a world famous (gay I presume) man having sex privately with another in a car at night!! But it did not mention about another world famous singer, a straight, who murdered in a hotel and got away with it, even if many witnesses were there - that killer was a friend of the cowboy president who was not president then when this happened!!

I applaud too Brad, and asks that he starts a thread to anwser our questions or cases, if he would like. It remains that some cops and some forces are bad or very bad!! - you have read some of my experiences, and I have other bad ones too, plus rare good ones!! Brad is obvious working great and happy to be in such a gay, etc., welcoming force; he is lucky too with his relationship with his gay partner!! I wish that he will answer some cases of ours!!

What do you think?  And to all of you? Would Jack have went to a park and got murdered there?

Hugs!!

[serious crayons]

He guessed that if he were to proposition one woman after another in public settings, probably one in about one hundred would agree to a tryst.

And the other 99 would call the cops! 

Unless, of course, your friend was George Clooney or Brad Pitt, in which case the odds might be higher. Actually, I'm sure that for attractive celebrities, it's the women (and men) who are doing the propositioning. A friend of a friend of Sam Shepherd once told me that on a casual night out he'd constantly get approached by women saying "Will you fuck me, Sam?" and the like. No doubt George and Brad and their ilk are pretty used to that.

(Then again, people feel like they already know celebrities -- they certainly know some things about them -- so it's still not quite the equivalent of sex with a total stranger.)

But your friend had better be pretty damn attractive or rich or famous to hope that he'd get even 1 percent of women to go along with it. I'm skeptical that an average guy could score anywhere near that.

It would be more OK I guess and hope that signs are put there to say so!!

Yes, putting up some PUBLIC SEX ALLOWED signs would certainly be helpful. 

[Artiste]

Boy, you are funny garrycottle.

You say about Lureen: Since we've moved on to the topic of how fast women are willing to go from introduction to hanky-panky, I thought it would be interesting to note that in BBM Lureen moves very, very fast.  Jack describes her as being "in a hurry," and she is pretty much in the driver's seat from start to finish.  (Jack is such a bottom boy.    )  Her randy insouciance may be unusual, but it never once occurred to me that it was unlikely.  Of course she did have a chance to observe him during the rodeo and at the bar before she practically lassoed him and drug him out to her car. 

God, that Lureen...  Such a cavewoman
...

You made my day!I also think Lureen hides the fact that Jack was murdered!! And so well like she did with sex!  Check out about Lureen if she was pregnant before meeting Jack?

Hugs!!

[brokeplex]

You made my day!I also think Lureen hides the fact that Jack was murdered!! And so well like she did with sex!  Check out about Lureen if she was pregnant before meeting Jack?

Artiste, that is a very good topic for discussion. start a new thread to discuss whether or not Lureen knew that Jack had been murdered and why?

[LauraGigs]

You made my day!I also think Lureen hides the fact that Jack was murdered!! And so well like she did with sex!  Check out about Lureen if she was pregnant before meeting Jack?

Artiste, you sure seem to hate Lureen.  Why?