TOTW 02/08: Was Lureen pregnant when she met Jack?

[Front-Ranger]

There was something that bothered me about this question, but I couldn't really figure out what it was until recently. Seeminingly innocuous on the surface, the question is revealing itself as a loaded question. First of all, it is not possible to definitely answer the question from the facts that we are given either in the story or the film. So, we are left with speculating, and all sorts of baggage gets dredged up in the process.

I will just answer it this way. I think that Larry McMurtry and Diana Ossana were trying to make the women's characters more interesting and fleshed-out in the screenplay in order to give the movie greater appeal (altho I don't really think it was necessary but it did lead to a good result...the characters of the women ARE very interesting, as Larry McMurtry's characters usually are...think Terms of Endearment). Also, I think they were trying to contrast the characters of Alma and Lureen...Alma as a rural woman and Lureen as a small-town woman of the Texas persuasion. Thirdly, I think they were trying to give the flavor of the times, women's liberation and all that that entails. I don't think pregnancy was on the minds of either the scriptwriters or Annie Proulx.

[Brown Eyes]

There was something that bothered me about this question, but I couldn't really figure out what it was until recently. Seeminingly innocuous on the surface, the question is revealing itself as a loaded question. First of all, it is not possible to definitely answer the question from the facts that we are given either in the story or the film. So, we are left with speculating, and all sorts of baggage gets dredged up in the process.

I will just answer it this way. I think that Larry McMurtry and Diana Ossana were trying to make the women's characters more interesting and fleshed-out in the screenplay in order to give the movie greater appeal (altho I don't really think it was necessary but it did lead to a good result...the characters of the women ARE very interesting, as Larry McMurtry's characters usually are...think Terms of Endearment). Also, I think they were trying to contrast the characters of Alma and Lureen...Alma as a rural woman and Lureen as a small-town woman of the Texas persuasion. Thirdly, I think they were trying to give the flavor of the times, women's liberation and all that that entails. I don't think pregnancy was on the minds of either the scriptwriters or Annie Proulx.

Heya Sister Mod.  I definitely agree with what you wrote here.

I think the additional difficulty with the question, which I've mentioned before, is that the timeline (especially the way it's handled in the film) is flawed on a number of levels.  So counting months, etc., is a hard way to produce evidence about this particular question.

[ifyoucantfixit]

        i agree with what you ladies said completely.. i have been trying to discuss this question ratiionally.  But there are
some that are intent on having it be so.  i think that the question is a back handed dig at Lureen.  It gives much in the
way of someone with an axe to grind.  To blame her for entrapment of Jack.  I don't care for that at all. 

[moremojo]

I think it's a legitimate line of speculation, in large part precisely because of the discrepancies in the timeline. Like some others, I prefer to think that Lureen was not pregnant when she met Jack, not wanting to overanalyze details that the author and filmmakers probably (in my opinion) did not mean any great import by, but those details nonetheless are there (or can be legitimately inferred), and can form a reasonable basis for a variety of interpretations.

At any rate, I don't think a view that Lureen was pregnant need necessarily impugn her character or dignity. She was a human being doing the best she could with what she knew and expected from her world, like all the other characters in the story/film.

[Katie77]

If Laureen had not been as up front and agressively cheeky with Jack, then they probably would not have even got together. Laureen obviously saw Jack look over at her, and maybe recognised that if it was going to happen it was going to be up to her to make the first move......she may have thought he was shy or even intimidated by her, and he probably was.

I think Jack was caught up in the fact that someone actually was not rejecting him, someone was showing some interest in him and he was enjoying the experience....

He probably would have preferred it, if this interest had come from Ennis, or at least one of the guys in the bar, but so far that had not happened, so maybe it was time for him to take what was offered to him and try to enjoy it. His lack of experience with women was counteracted by Laureens boldness and it was clear to Jack, that if he went with Laureen, that she was capable of leading him and showing him what to do, and how to do it.

If not for a woman like Laureen, Jack would probably have not even linked up with a female, let alone got married......Jack was probably never going to make an advance to any woman, so when Laureen came along, he jumped on the "roller coaster", she obviously offered him a somewhat easier way of life than rodeoing, and she fulfilled his emotional need to have somone who cared about him.....and he was able to lead a life that was accepted by society. (Isn't that what is happening even in these times, when gay men get married and try to live a normal heterosexual lifestyle?)

I do not think Laureen was slutty, she was a flirt, and pretty sure of her sexuality and attraction...and cheeky enough to act on it........some men may have been intimated by that....Jack, I think, was overwhelmed and humoured by it.

I do not think she was a Lesbian, there is no indication that her sexual preferences were towards women, and just because a woman is forthright and dominant does not make them a lesbian.

Whether she was pregnant or not?......I dont think she was, even though the movie timeline indicates differently....I think the writers miscalculated by a few months there, in their intention to show how quickly it all happened for Jack.....there he was a single rodeo guy, trolling the bars for a man, no real future, alone and rejected.......then within a short space of time, he was married, with a baby in a job selling farm equipment, leading a socially accepted heterosexual lifestyle....like I said earlier....he jumped on the roller coaster......

[Artiste]

Thanks very much and dearly all of you ami(e)!!

Katie, may I quote: If Laureen had not been as up front and agressively cheeky with Jack, then they probably would not have even got together
.....

Katie and to all, may I say that I agree and applaud Lureen for that!! Even if she was straight, lesbian, bi-, or other orientation, or a combination!! I think her pursuit and purpose combines that she eyed Jack and grabbed him, for many wondrous reasons, and not just for colourful sex, although that was nice for both (Jack and her!! (And for us too!! I am grateful!!) I still think that she is lesbian or bi-, and did know that then (as I have tried to prove), or felt it, or discovered it living with Jack!!

Thank goodness Lureen was indeed like you say ...up front and agressively cheeky with Jack, then they probably would not have even got together!! I enjoy seeing Jack and her!! I think that see saved and still saves Jack's life!! - and that says much, and much to be said yet too!!

To me, no offence to anyone and sorry if I did offend any person, Lureen was pregnant before she met Jack: about or so one month pregnant!! No harm done for her to be in, I say! So, she knew that or not!! ??
....

Will say more later, and thanks for your very interesting  comment Katie, awaiting your comments and from others too,

hugs!

[twistedude]

Answer to question: No.

Was she pregnant when she married Jack? Possibly ( it is clearly emphasized, several times, in the movie, that Lureen's father hates Jack. So you can't help wondering, occasionally, why he allowed her to marry him....but she may have done it against his will, or on the sneak).

Anyway, he's going on 44 now...at least my Bobby is. This is installed over their front door:

[brokebackjack]

oh, no way. Lureen was a spontaneous willful girl. She wanted jack and got more then she bargained for.

What Lureen wanted, Lureen got.

But she was also smitten with Jack and IMHO truly loved him. As for Jack he tried, but ended up being 'buddies'. Hence her increasing bittrness, the mask she assumed towards the world, the mask which Anne Hathaway so brilliantly allowed to slip during her filmed scene with the telephone call....

[Fran]

Someone apparently miscalculated when deciding the date of the rodeo, the postmark on the "coming thru" postcard, and/or Jack's "eight months old" comment.  But since I want BBM to be "perfect," I'm going to blame the reunion kiss and offer this explanation:

After that powerful kiss, it's a wonder that Jack could even remember he had a wife and a son.  He did manage to get his wife's name right, so I can forgive him for misspeaking and getting his son's age wrong.  Remember, he was nervous around Alma and just babbling.  Maybe he was thinking of the Motel 8 he passed on the way into town. 

[moremojo]

Maybe he was thinking of the Motel 8 he passed on the way into town. 

I like your way of thinking, friend!