Author Topic: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death  (Read 56124 times)

mvansand76

  • Guest
Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2008, 06:22:51 pm »
I think this is a difficult subject to come up with a conclusion on.   I can respect those who wrote RPS and have decided not to continue and to delete what they had.   And I know out of respect for his family writing something now would be disrespecful.

I know some writers who were using Heath and Jake's names but their stories had nothing to do with their RL and those stories I have enjoyed.   

I have only written one RPS.  I am not going to delete it.  Whether I would write another one I have no idea.   

I respect those who have decided not to continue.

all I know is I miss Heath and I hope he is at peace.  And I hope his family has the strength to go on.


Hey- thanks for letting us know your views on this...

Yes, that's all that counts right now, isn't it? I do feel he's at peace now that he's finally back in Perth.

 :'(

Offline blacktears

  • Jr. Ranch Hand
  • **
  • Posts: 36
  • Hudson Heartbreak
Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2008, 12:33:21 am »
A post from the Mod of BBSlash concerning new posting rules as well as mentioning RPS:

http://community.livejournal.com/brokebackslash/1886342.html
Proud Supporter, Writer, and Reader of RPS

Offline louisev

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,107
  • "My guns and amo!! Over my cold dead hands!!"
    • Fiction by Louise Van Hine
Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2008, 02:28:47 am »
Thanks for posting that, blacktears.  Clearly, the forum for discussing the impact of Heath's death on the fanfiction and RPS specifically, is not Brokebackslash. I had an RPS posted there and made an announcement, and it was never my intention to open discussion there, which is why I linked back to this forum for the discussion.

However, since Wranglers IS for discussion, it is possible for people to bring up discussion topics if they wish over there.  In fact, there is one recent post someone made about RPS that has had several replies.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline ENEN

  • Jr. Ranch Hand
  • **
  • Posts: 18
Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #23 on: January 29, 2008, 03:07:55 pm »
Hi Louise and everyone else! Thanks for providing a place where we can feel free to discuss the pros and cons of RPS especially in light of Heath Ledger's death.  I wonder why so many other communities have put a taboo on this discussion? I personally would not want to write or read any Heath RPS. Why can't their be a debate on the propriety of it? Anyway, thanks for this forum. And trekfan thanks for those wonderful pictures you have been posting of Heath!

Offline louisev

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,107
  • "My guns and amo!! Over my cold dead hands!!"
    • Fiction by Louise Van Hine
Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #24 on: January 29, 2008, 03:28:49 pm »
I can only share my opinion and my knowledge about it.  Early in 2006 the RPS stories about Heath and Jake began to appear here and there on fan forums.  I know from hearsay (I did not see the messages myself, however) that enthusiastic readers shared links and quotes in the public areas of the Dave Cullen site, and that there was an outcry against discussion of real people in fictional - sexual - situations.  As a result, there was a policy instituted at that forum to use pseudonyms to indicate Heath and Jake in discussions of it there, and to encourage writers to continue writing  - but not to advertise their stories, or name names - outside of the Slash Discussion thread.  Many members objected strenuously to RPS on that forum.

RPS stories are not allowed at all on Ennisjack.com since its beginning, as far as I know.  I wasn't aware of the policy and my drabble link were removed when I posted them and received a polite note explaining the policy.

I believe that since many people find RPS very offensive morally, and since it is considered by legal advisors as invasion of privacy, defamation of character, and libel, if the stars chose to confront a writer in a legal forum, those who write and read it feel very sensitive about being criticized.  However, there are real ethical questions about whether fans really do have a "creative right" to use the names and biographies of people we revere and respect, and write detailed sex fantasies about them.  RPS, peculiarly, seems to focus far more on sex than on a story plot, or on other aspects of the actors lives.  Some of them bring in other actors and family members, such as Maggie Gyllenhaal, her husband Peter, Jake's friend and fellow actor Austin Nichols, and other A-list stars  like Ewan McGregor, Christian Bale, etc.  I saw one story (and did not finish it) involving group sex between several of these male actors, and the story consisted of little more than this.

My opinion is that most RPS stories are masturbatory fantasies that are almost purely devoted to sex.  I have not read many of them, but what I did read gave that impression.  Some of them have extensive journalistic background about Jake and Heath and incorporate Michelle and the misfortune of her father's tax arrest and tense confrontations that are very detailed - and very personal.

The more I looked and read, the more uneasy I felt.  None of this could be considered "a tribute" but rather something a lot more daring than a gossip column.  Some authors claim that neither they nor their readers have any illusions that these are the "real Heath and Jake" but the biographies, and the images accompanying them - are certainly of them.  The details other than the fantasy sex, are details of their real lives.  If they aren't the real Heath and Jake that are being imaged by the writers, why use their names and their biographies as part of the story?  I find that disingenuous.

I did my outing in RPS in the form of drabbles that took place within the context of filming BBM and Heath beginning his relationship with Michelle.  As I got closer to trying to portray the mental state of the actor, I felt more and more uncomfortable, even if what much of what I was writing could very well have happened.  I was treading on forbidden ground.  I did not post the drabbles on my own livejournal, and I had a few strong dissenting opinions from readers about why I had "stooped so low" and encouraged them to read what I had written so they could find out why.

However, I never felt as though I had any legal or moral "right" to speculate in that way, nor do I believe others feel as comfortable or righteous as they may state they are, but I can't say anything definitive on behalf of anyone else.  I do feel as though I need to set an example, having waded into it, that my conscience does not permit me to put out this story to anyone - even privately - now that Heath has died. I can find no good reason to do so, and cannot rationalize it ethically.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2008, 05:52:02 pm by louise van hine »
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,165
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #25 on: January 29, 2008, 04:30:14 pm »
I believe that since many people find RPS very offensive morally, and since it is considered by legal advisors as invasion of privacy, defamation of character, and libel, if the stars chose to confront a writer in a legal forum, those who write and read it feel very sensitive about being criticized.

OK, I know I'm being judgmental, but for the legal reasons detailed--in my opinion, well they should feel sensitive.

Quote
However, there are real ethical questions about whether fans really do have a "creative right" to use the names and biographies of people we revere and respect, and write detailed sex fantasies about them.  RPS, peculiarly, seems to focus far more on sex than on a story plot, or on other aspects of the actors lives.  Some of them bring in other actors and family members, such as Maggie Gyllenhaal, her husband Peter, Jake's friend and fellow actor Austin Phillips, and other A-list stars  like Ewan McGregor, Christian Bale, etc.  I saw one story (and did not finish it) involving group sex between several of these male actors, and the story consisted of little more than this.

My opinion is that most RPS stories are masturbatory fantasies that are almost purely devoted to sex.

Thanks, Louise. That's more or less what I suspected when I first became aware of RPS.

But then it was explained to me early on that that's what the "S," the "Slash," meant: The subjects having sex.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline MaineWriter

  • Bettermost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,042
  • Stay the course...
    • Bristlecone Pine Press
Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #26 on: January 29, 2008, 05:19:39 pm »
Louise,

Do you know if there is any standard on when a person can move into the realm of fiction? I have read plenty of historical fiction novels with all sorts of real person characters--kings, queens, presidents, senators--most recently, an architect in the form of Frank Lloyd Wright in "Loving Frank." The story takes place between 1904-1914 and is based on real events in Wright's life. What's made up are conversations (which had no way of being recorded, of course) and imagined interactions. Historical fiction is a well established and popular genre of writing. At what point does it make the transition from being "real people stories" to "historical fiction"? When the main characters are dead? Something else?

Leslie
Taming Groomzilla<-- support equality for same-sex marriage in Maine by clicking this link!

Offline Jeff Wrangler

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,165
  • "He somebody you cowboy'd with?"
Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #27 on: January 29, 2008, 05:24:23 pm »
Louise,

Do you know if there is any standard on when a person can move into the realm of fiction? I have read plenty of historical fiction novels with all sorts of real person characters--kings, queens, presidents, senators--most recently, an architect in the form of Frank Lloyd Wright in "Loving Frank." The story takes place between 1904-1914 and is based on real events in Wright's life. What's made up are conversations (which had no way of being recorded, of course) and imagined interactions. Historical fiction is a well established and popular genre of writing. At what point does it make the transition from being "real people stories" to "historical fiction"? When the main characters are dead? Something else?

Leslie

Tell you what, I was kind of wondering about that, too. I've even read a murder mystery once that featured Tallulah Bankhead as an amateur sleuth! It was pretty good, too.  ;D I think she was dead by the time the story was published, though.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline louisev

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,107
  • "My guns and amo!! Over my cold dead hands!!"
    • Fiction by Louise Van Hine
Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #28 on: January 29, 2008, 05:35:58 pm »
Louise,

Do you know if there is any standard on when a person can move into the realm of fiction? I have read plenty of historical fiction novels with all sorts of real person characters--kings, queens, presidents, senators--most recently, an architect in the form of Frank Lloyd Wright in "Loving Frank." The story takes place between 1904-1914 and is based on real events in Wright's life. What's made up are conversations (which had no way of being recorded, of course) and imagined interactions. Historical fiction is a well established and popular genre of writing. At what point does it make the transition from being "real people stories" to "historical fiction"? When the main characters are dead? Something else?

Leslie

very good question.  I think that the three legal risks I mentioned - invasion of privacy, defamation of character and libel, no longer apply when a person is deceased, and a fiction is based upon research into their life in the past.  But in a case such as this, where the death just happened, writing about a person as though they had not died, and postulating relationships with people still living, would be subject to those risks.

But if the work is billed as "fiction" and the person has died in the past and there are no heirs to raise a ruckus, then I do not believe there is much legal recourse.  There may be slander and libel provisions that heirs can use to some limited degree, but writing about people who are long dead, I think that no longer applies.  But it is something to consider.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline louisev

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,107
  • "My guns and amo!! Over my cold dead hands!!"
    • Fiction by Louise Van Hine
Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #29 on: January 29, 2008, 05:42:07 pm »
Here is a link I found where the family of Rosa Parks sued Outkast for their song "Rosa Parks."  I am not sure how much insight it gives but clearly the family was able to gain relief from the courts for the misrepresentation of Rosa Parks' place in history by the band's song.

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/stevecarper/bull160.htm
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”