Author Topic: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death  (Read 56169 times)

Offline MaineWriter

  • Bettermost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,042
  • Stay the course...
    • Bristlecone Pine Press
Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #40 on: January 30, 2008, 12:22:09 pm »
Thanks for the general rules about historical fiction Marge! I think the big difference is as you said no one connected to the figure even remotely is still alive. We had slash stories about Heath posted even before he was buried.  It is not only a question about libel or the legality of the situation but the propiety and ethics of it.  Heath Ledger was a very private man so I do not believe for one minute he would be comfortable with these types of stories about him and Jake. I imagine he would wonder why so much creative effort would be wasted on making up tales about him instead of the writers finding their own stories or characters.  I think the best tributes to Heath have been testimonials on what he meant to people and poems  I have seen written about how much he meant to the author. I don't see RPS in that same light.  How many of us after the Pope died wanted to go write a story about him loving and having sex with some other public figure? is that really a natural reaction to grief? Anyone written slash about their own lost loved ones? I think not. And if they have well they really do have issues! :laugh:
 

Oh, God, just the thought of it...LOL

Thanks for a chuckle, ENEN.

L
Taming Groomzilla<-- support equality for same-sex marriage in Maine by clicking this link!

Offline louisev

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,107
  • "My guns and amo!! Over my cold dead hands!!"
    • Fiction by Louise Van Hine
Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #41 on: January 30, 2008, 12:27:31 pm »
Now I"m never going to see a picture of Ratzinger without thinking of him fooling around with Nick Sarkozy in a back room at a summit or something.

And no, my natural instinct at hearing of Heath's death was not to imagine him having sex with another actor, that's for sure...!
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline ENEN

  • Jr. Ranch Hand
  • **
  • Posts: 18
Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #42 on: January 30, 2008, 03:13:21 pm »
The argument by supporters of RPS that the the real people in RPS are only characters in a fantasy really bothered. It seems as if they were treating Heath and Jake as objects instead of people and I came across this interesting definition that I want to post here:

Sexual objectification is objectification of a person. That is, seeing them as a sexual object, and emphasizing their sexual attributes and physical attractiveness, while de-emphasizing their existence as a living person with emotions and feelings of their own[/b]

That's what is going on with RPS. IMO.

Offline el_wing

  • Sr. Ranch Hand
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • and bite me too...
Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #43 on: January 30, 2008, 04:00:08 pm »
The argument by supporters of RPS that the the real people in RPS are only characters in a fantasy really bothered. It seems as if they were treating Heath and Jake as objects instead of people and I came across this interesting definition that I want to post here:

Sexual objectification is objectification of a person. That is, seeing them as a sexual object, and emphasizing their sexual attributes and physical attractiveness, while de-emphasizing their existence as a living person with emotions and feelings of their own[/b]

That's what is going on with RPS. IMO.

Interesting that you're using the Wikipedia definition. The Barbie doll has more to do with this modern feminist theory that addresses how men negate women to sex objects and whittle down self worth. We all "objectify" actors and musicians through hero worship. To sexually objectify in rps objectifies people. So does slash fic.

Do you read Ennis and Jack fic? Because that's objectifying gay men.

Or maybe watched the Super Bowl and seen those cheerleaders??? Much worse, IMO.
Leaves turn over with the times,
The sun breaks each day with shines,
Hither awhile, then whither back--
It is life that people lack.
     ~el-wing

Offline louisev

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 16,107
  • "My guns and amo!! Over my cold dead hands!!"
    • Fiction by Louise Van Hine
Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #44 on: January 30, 2008, 04:11:54 pm »
to be fair to you as a writer, el_wing, I did read a chapter of your latest story and I think there is a contrast between what you are writing and the standard RPS fare - because there seems to be an actual story unfolding.  However, this is not the main feature of many RPS tales - the main feature is sexual encounters and the emotional drama that surrounds it.  I have always disliked reading things where the purpose of the story is sex, otherwise known as "Porn without plot", and I think this is far more prevalent in RPS stories than in fan fiction ones.  In fact, there are a number of fan fics that are not at all explicit, and whatever sex occurred happened "off screen" as it were.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline el_wing

  • Sr. Ranch Hand
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • and bite me too...
Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #45 on: January 30, 2008, 05:06:10 pm »
I agree on that point-- that there is a lot of PWP in rps but it's prevalent in all fandoms, rps and not. There are many rps writers who are excellent writers. What I have a problem with is tearing each other down as writers-- especially women writers. Society does that enough, why do we need to do this to each other? I'd rather judge fic individually on merit than lump them together and make sweeping generalities. Please don't lump us all together.

Fan fic is largely dominated by women writers. I start to feel disillusioned when we start to split. We grow up reading past writers, men who are held up as "models" of what is "good" writing like Steinbeck and Hemmingway who have misogynist tendencies in their work and do objectify women.

I don't know, this whole thread reads more like an rps bash session with a few intelligent arguments in between that an open discussion.
Leaves turn over with the times,
The sun breaks each day with shines,
Hither awhile, then whither back--
It is life that people lack.
     ~el-wing

Offline ENEN

  • Jr. Ranch Hand
  • **
  • Posts: 18
Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #46 on: January 30, 2008, 05:14:03 pm »
 the stories about Jack and Ennis that  I read are a continuation of a love affair between two men . Jack and Ennis are fictional characters and not real so you can't really put them in the class of Heath and Jake.  You can't offend a fictional character but you can offend and hurt real people.The cheerleaders at the SuperBowl are pretty bad but there is one big difference between them and slash fiction. Those cheerleaders are making a choice about their own lives and image. Heath and Jake have made no such choice in regards to the slash stories about them. I think the Barbie doll theory applies to RPS because the actors are being written as dolls to satisfy a fantasy and for sexual gratification. And just because objectification is prevalent elsewhere does not mean it is OK. It just means that it is prevalent.

Offline ENEN

  • Jr. Ranch Hand
  • **
  • Posts: 18
Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #47 on: January 30, 2008, 05:16:44 pm »
Quote
don't know, this whole thread reads more like an rps bash session with a few intelligent arguments in between that an open discussion

It's not a bash session. It's just a place where we can exchange our views openly. Not everyone is thrilled with RPS and should be able to say so.

Offline el_wing

  • Sr. Ranch Hand
  • ***
  • Posts: 52
  • and bite me too...
Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #48 on: January 30, 2008, 05:19:43 pm »
I don't know about other people, but I don't think I'd be writing fan fiction about Ennis and Jack if it weren't for Heath and Jake's portrayal of them. We are essentially fantasizing about the actors, not Jack and Ennis. If you'd only read Annie's story in the New Yorker, would we be having this discussion?
Leaves turn over with the times,
The sun breaks each day with shines,
Hither awhile, then whither back--
It is life that people lack.
     ~el-wing

Offline MaineWriter

  • Bettermost Supporter!
  • Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 14,042
  • Stay the course...
    • Bristlecone Pine Press
Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2008, 05:21:41 pm »

I don't know, this whole thread reads more like an rps bash session with a few intelligent arguments in between that an open discussion.

While it seems there are more people here who have objections to RPS, I don't think that this is a bash session where your opinion is not welcomed, el_wing. On another forum where I have participated, if I presented a minority view, I immediately got PMs telling me to stop "stirring the pot" and my only purpose in being on the the discussion was to be a troublemaker (neither of which were true). Has this happened to you, el_wing? Because if so, I'd like to know about  it as one of the Fanfic moderators.

After two years in this fandom, it is clear to me that people have very strong opinions about a variety of topics--from fanfiction in general, to moving on Ennis stories, to RPS. When I have been in the group where a minority opinion is being expressed, it can feel like I am getting bashed--that's true. But reading this thread, I do think the conversation has been respectful and everyone's voice has been welcomed. If you feel differently, please PM me so we can discuss. My goal--and I know Louise agrees with me--is to be able to have this issues out in the open so people can be able to discuss them--not hidden behind secret PM campaigns.

Thanks.

Leslie
Moderator, Fanfic
Taming Groomzilla<-- support equality for same-sex marriage in Maine by clicking this link!