Author Topic: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death  (Read 56118 times)

Offline ENEN

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Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #50 on: January 30, 2008, 05:24:21 pm »
I don't know about other people, but I don't think I'd be writing fan fiction about Ennis and Jack if it weren't for Heath and Jake's portrayal of them. We are essentially fantasizing about the actors, not Jack and Ennis. If you'd only read Annie's story in the New Yorker, would we be having this discussion?

I guess that's where we differ.  I read and fell in love with Jack and Ennisthrough the story first. And it is the idea of Jack and Ennis I love. I don't know Heath and Jake. But  I appreciate their perfomance in the film.

Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #51 on: January 30, 2008, 05:30:43 pm »
I don't know about other people, but I don't think I'd be writing fan fiction about Ennis and Jack if it weren't for Heath and Jake's portrayal of them. We are essentially fantasizing about the actors, not Jack and Ennis. If you'd only read Annie's story in the New Yorker, would we be having this discussion?

Bingo!  ;D

I don't think I'd have written a word if Ennis and Jack had been played by, say, Luke Wilson and Vince Vaughan.  ;D

« Last Edit: January 30, 2008, 10:32:45 pm by Jeff Wrangler »
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Offline louisev

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Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #52 on: January 30, 2008, 05:37:34 pm »
To me the root of the RPS issue lies in our beliefs about whether a) we have the right to write about real people as characters in our stories and b) whether they or their families would be offended or object or be upset about them.

With regard to a), it is clear that the law leans strongly against us, the tests El Wing mentions notwithstanding.  If someone writes a story that claims something that did not happen, the law states that this is a form of defamation.  The fact that the prima facie case for defamation is so easy to make, and that it can cause harm whether we wish that harm or not (claiming a homosexual relationship between two known people when one of them is happily married to someone else can cause mental distress, for example).  Whether the harm could be proven, whether anyone makes these claims in court or goes to the bother, does not address the prima facie case of defamation.  Why would we want to write something that nominally fits the description of invasion of privacy, or of defamation of character?

b) I was told in private by someone who is friends with an actor about whom RPS stories were written.  That person saw and read some of the RPS and, being a friend of the actor, was mortified and outraged, and told the actor, who was upset, not only about the fact that the stories were being published on the Internet, but that it was causing pain and anguish to his friends.

To me these are the core issues around RPS.  It is not a question of author's rights.  Clearly, if people have been writing about N'Sync all of these years and no one has been sued, then the risk of lawsuit may be small.  But that, to me, isn't the point.  To me the point is one of respect for the individual.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline ENEN

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Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #53 on: January 30, 2008, 05:39:41 pm »
Quote
But that, to me, isn't the point.  To me the point is one of respect for the individual.

exactly!!

Offline el_wing

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Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #54 on: January 30, 2008, 06:07:53 pm »
A couple of things. What bothers me is moral judgment on this. I respect your opinion. I have friends in other fandoms who object to rps. What hurts is to have people say or imply that those who do write it are immoral for doing so.

I know Louise, you took a personal stand yourself, and I respect you for it.

And Leslie, I'm sorry I wasn't clear why I'm posting here. No one has harassed me here on this site. But being a bbm board, I find the division in the fandom over this question counterproductive. I hate to see negative comments that make moral judgments of others over what they are writing and tear down the community of writers.

I understand, Louise feels it a matter of respect for the individual-- Heath, Jake, Ringo, George, Paul and John. Or N'Sync.  To many writers this is their way to immortalize them. I feel that is respect too.   We should also respect each other and not belittle their work.

Now all we need is a big group hug.
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It is life that people lack.
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Offline louisev

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Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #55 on: January 30, 2008, 06:18:59 pm »
I think the worst that could be implied about writers of RPS who are publishing it on the internet is not that they are immoral, but that perhaps they are thoughtless, and have not truly considered the implications of their story upon the possible audience.

For example, imagine a conversation which an RPS author would have with Heath if they met him and he asked this question of them.  It happens - there are people on this forum who have met Heath and one person at least, has worked with him in films.  If Heath were to have told his fans "I really do not like people writing stories about me having it off with Jake and I wish they would stop" would you stop writing the story?  Or would you feel you have a "right" to do it, even though the person you are worshipping is upset by it?

“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline el_wing

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Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #56 on: January 30, 2008, 06:24:47 pm »
I think the worst that could be implied about writers of RPS who are publishing it on the internet is not that they are immoral, but that perhaps they are thoughtless, and have not truly considered the implications of their story upon the possible audience.

For example, imagine a conversation which an RPS author would have with Heath if they met him and he asked this question of them.  It happens - there are people on this forum who have met Heath and one person at least, has worked with him in films.  If Heath were to have told his fans "I really do not like people writing stories about me having it off with Jake and I wish they would stop" would you stop writing the story?  Or would you feel you have a "right" to do it, even though the person you are worshipping is upset by it?



That's an interesting question, which I can't answer from this fandom-- but I can from LotR fandom since I know rps writers who have met Elijah Wood and Sean Astin and they take no offense to the writing-- in fact, they liked some of it. They even slow danced together. One two three. Sean wrote about it in his book about making the movie. If an actor told me, hey, this upsets me, I'd quit. But some actors don't feel threated by women's fantasies about them.
Leaves turn over with the times,
The sun breaks each day with shines,
Hither awhile, then whither back--
It is life that people lack.
     ~el-wing

Offline louisev

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Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #57 on: January 30, 2008, 06:33:31 pm »
That's an interesting question, which I can't answer from this fandom-- but I can from LotR fandom since I know rps writers who have met Elijah Wood and Sean Astin and they take no offense to the writing-- in fact, they liked some of it. They even slow danced together. One two three. Sean wrote about it in his book about making the movie. If an actor told me, hey, this upsets me, I'd quit. But some actors don't feel threated by women's fantasies about them.

In this instance, the approval of the actors involve would constitute permission.  In a case of permission or approval then my personal objection would be withdrawn.  However, permission cannot be presumed, and I can only apply the yardstick of my own opinion, which is, if someone wrote a fictional story about me in an intimate relationship with someone and made up the facts - I would sue them.  In the case of non celebrities, invasion of privacy and defamation of character are pretty much a slam-dunk.  With celebrities it is much harder to do based upon the "public interest" angle.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline el_wing

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Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #58 on: January 30, 2008, 06:45:57 pm »
In this instance, the approval of the actors involve would constitute permission.  In a case of permission or approval then my personal objection would be withdrawn.  However, permission cannot be presumed, and I can only apply the yardstick of my own opinion, which is, if someone wrote a fictional story about me in an intimate relationship with someone and made up the facts - I would sue them.  In the case of non celebrities, invasion of privacy and defamation of character are pretty much a slam-dunk.  With celebrities it is much harder to do based upon the "public interest" angle.

I wouldn't sue. But that's me. 
Leaves turn over with the times,
The sun breaks each day with shines,
Hither awhile, then whither back--
It is life that people lack.
     ~el-wing

Offline louisev

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Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #59 on: January 30, 2008, 07:09:08 pm »
If someone is writing a story about real people, and feels perfectly fine about the idea of having that person write a story about themselves (understanding that whoever it is may not write something flattering, true, or helpful, and in fact has no control over what is written at all, and may indeed hurt their feelings or the feelings of their friends) then I would say that their conscience should be clear about writing RPS.  But that would not be me.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”