Author Topic: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death  (Read 56140 times)

Offline ENEN

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Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #120 on: February 02, 2008, 02:25:43 pm »
So why write DEAD!Jack fic?? Or a fic talking about having sex near something that was special to Jack?

You do realize that Jack Twist is a fictional character.  It's not the same as a fanatasy about an actual real person who is now dead.

Offline souxi

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Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #121 on: February 02, 2008, 02:31:35 pm »
You do realize that Jack Twist is a fictional character.  It's not the same as a fanatasy about an actual real person who is now dead.

I,m so glad you pointed that out . I was going too but I thought I,d wait and see if someone else did first.  :laugh:

Offline ENEN

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Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #122 on: February 02, 2008, 02:43:10 pm »
Oh I will. I hope you enjoy writing RPS about Heath now that he,s gone. I for one won,t be reading it. For the 22nd time, it,s disrespectful. Oh and I,ll share my thoughts any day, you can count on that,..........sweetheart.

Hi Souxi, I'm glad you will continue to share your thoughts on this issue. I find it interesting that those who approve RPS get all out of sorts when they think we are calling the writers immoral or unethical, but have no problem using such phrases as "close minded" and" judgemental". 
As to what the tabloids are writing, I also find it curious that one would find such gossip disrespectful but have no problem with RPS Heath stories posted so soon after his death or ever. There is a disconnect there that  I don't quite understand. Having said that here are my thoughts on why  I will not read RPS.
Heath Ledger was a son, a brother, a nephew, a friend, a lover, and a father.  And He left behind his parents, his siblings , his friends and a daughter.  He was not just an actor put on this Earth for only our personal enjoyment. He was and still is even in death entitled to the same respect for privacy that we all ask. When did he give permission for us to enter into his personal life? When did he give us permission to enter into his bedroom? When did he give us permission to stop thinking of him as a human being but as an object or character for our own personal enjoyment? For me the answer is quite clear. The answer is never. So Souxi, I too think it is wrong to write or read such slash.  And yes we can avoid it if we want to but that does not mean we can not express our opinion on it. If they can continue to write it; we can continue to object . Just as they have a right to express their feelings so do we.

Offline ENEN

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Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #123 on: February 02, 2008, 02:46:51 pm »
I,m so glad you pointed that out . I was going too but I thought I,d wait and see if someone else did first.  :laugh:

Yes, IMO, I think that illustrates the problem with RPS.  I think to many of them Heath was never real and that's why they think they can write anything about him without thought to the consequences it may have on his family, friends and even some fans.  As Louise pointed out it is about respect for the individual which RPS lacks.

Offline souxi

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Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #124 on: February 02, 2008, 02:57:21 pm »
Hi Souxi, I'm glad you will continue to share your thoughts on this issue. I find it interesting that those who approve RPS get all out of sorts when they think we are calling the writers immoral or unethical, but have no problem using such phrases as "close minded" and" judgemental". 
As to what the tabloids are writing, I also find it curious that one would find such gossip disrespectful but have no problem with RPS Heath stories posted so soon after his death or ever. There is a disconnect there that  I don't quite understand. Having said that here are my thoughts on why  I will not read RPS.
Heath Ledger was a son, a brother, a nephew, a friend, a lover, and a father.  And He left behind his parents, his siblings , his friends and a daughter.  He was not just an actor put on this Earth for only our personal enjoyment. He was and still is even in death entitled to the same respect for privacy that we all ask. When did he give permission for us to enter into his personal life? When did he give us permission to enter into his bedroom? When did he give us permission to stop thinking of him as a human being but as an object or character for our own personal enjoyment? For me the answer is quite clear. The answer is never. So Souxi, I too think it is wrong to write or read such slash.  And yes we can avoid it if we want to but that does not mean we can not express our opinion on it. If they can continue to write it; we can continue to object . Just as they have a right to express their feelings so do we.


Here here, brilliantly put. As you said, Jack Twist is fictional, so writing slash about him doesn,t matter. Heath on the other hand is very very real, even though sadly, he is no longer with us.  :'(

Offline louisev

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Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #125 on: February 02, 2008, 03:14:38 pm »
Unfortunately, and fortunately, celebrities give up a certain amount of right to privacy when they become public figures.  In the life of a famous person, speculating about their lives and their work, even to the point of gossiping and telling untruths, can be done with a certain impunity, due to this clause 'public interest.'

If there is any legal defensibility to RPS stories, or RPF (real person fiction, not necessarily slash) it would be public interest.  In exchange for the publicity they create and the living they make from publicity, the loss they suffer, while irritating and sometimes very humiliating, is to a certain extent both permissible and legal.

This is where ethics comes in.  IF we apply the standards to Heath's life and to the suffering of his innocent family members, as well as his small daughter, as we do to our own, there are things we would never tolerate, and one of these things is people speculating about our sex lives and people we go to bed with. I believe that the reason we are talking about ethics here is that we are grappling with someone who has touched us all in some deep and emotional way, and to some ofus, we can no longer look on with what now feels like a prurient and selfish interest while others claim artistic right and freedom to do the same.  I believe at base it is an ethics discussion.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline ENEN

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Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #126 on: February 02, 2008, 03:23:47 pm »
Unfortunately, and fortunately, celebrities give up a certain amount of right to privacy when they become public figures.  In the life of a famous person, speculating about their lives and their work, even to the point of gossiping and telling untruths, can be done with a certain impunity, due to this clause 'public interest.'

If there is any legal defensibility to RPS stories, or RPF (real person fiction, not necessarily slash) it would be public interest.  In exchange for the publicity they create and the living they make from publicity, the loss they suffer, while irritating and sometimes very humiliating, is to a certain extent both permissible and legal.

This is where ethics comes in.  IF we apply the standards to Heath's life and to the suffering of his innocent family members, as well as his small daughter, as we do to our own, there are things we would never tolerate, and one of these things is people speculating about our sex lives and people we go to bed with. I believe that the reason we are talking about ethics here is that we are grappling with someone who has touched us all in some deep and emotional way, and to some ofus, we can no longer look on with what now feels like a prurient and selfish interest while others claim artistic right and freedom to do the same.  I believe at base it is an ethics discussion.

I understand that celebrities fall under the public interest clause but does that mean anything can be said or written about them without impunity?  I recall a gossip site being stopped for printing some things about Jake Gyllenhaal . But as you said it really is a discussion about ethics and whether we view Heath Ledger as a person or a character.

Offline louisev

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Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #127 on: February 02, 2008, 03:27:58 pm »
I understand that celebrities fall under the public interest clause but does that mean anything can be said or written about them without impunity?  I recall a gossip site being stopped for printing some things about Jake Gyllenhaal . But as you said it really is a discussion about ethics and whether we view Heath Ledger as a person or a character.

No, they can't print anything, and they can't say anything, but there is a great deal of leeway in speculation.

For example, the case of the lapdancer in London who said she spent the night with Heath having sex and doing coke.  It is her word against his, and he is dead.  Because he is dead, he can't sue for defamation of character.  If he were alive, she would not be able to accuse him of doing so without she and the publication being liable for defamation of character.  But the publication can't prove it, they don't have to show she was telling the truth, and there is no invasion of Heath's privacy or defamation of his character since those only apply to living people.


It is still despicable.
“Mr. Coyote always gets me good, boy,”  Ellery said, winking.  “Almost forgot what life was like before I got me my own personal coyote.”


Offline souxi

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Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #128 on: February 02, 2008, 03:30:06 pm »
I understand that celebrities fall under the public interest clause but does that mean anything can be said or written about them without impunity?  I recall a gossip site being stopped for printing some things about Jake Gyllenhaal . But as you said it really is a discussion about ethics and whether we view Heath Ledger as a person or a character.

Exactly right ENEN. It is, (again IMO,) treating him like a piece of meat, something purely for "entertainment". The man is dead. :'( I still feel, and I always will feel, that writing about him in that context now, is wrong and disrespectful. Ennis is another matter, he,s fictional, but not Heath.

Offline souxi

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Re: Open Discussion of RPS Stories in Light of Heath's Death
« Reply #129 on: February 02, 2008, 03:32:52 pm »
No, they can't print anything, and they can't say anything, but there is a great deal of leeway in speculation.

For example, the case of the lapdancer in London who said she spent the night with Heath having sex and doing coke.  It is her word against his, and he is dead.  Because he is dead, he can't sue for defamation of character.  If he were alive, she would not be able to accuse him of doing so without she and the publication being liable for defamation of character.  But the publication can't prove it, they don't have to show she was telling the truth, and there is no invasion of Heath's privacy or defamation of his character since those only apply to living people.


It is still despicable.

Even though the poor man is dead, they don,t consider the trash this woman has told about him, defamation of his character?? Unbeleivable! >:( As you rightly said, it,s despicable. I sincerely hope no more gutter trash comes out like that.Have these people no morals, or respect atall? I can,t beleive all this crap is coming out already. Poor Heath hasn,t even been buried yet. They make me sick the lot of them.  >:( >:( >:(