Author Topic: Ok.  (Read 2706 times)

Offline BelAir

  • BetterMost 1000+ Posts Club
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,401
Alma was no doubt shocked and confused by the sight of her husband kissing another man.   I think she invited him up for coffee so she could get a closer look and see for herself what was going on.

But after that weekend when Ennis runs off with Jack, she shoulda knew the marriage was a sham.   

I have spoken to girls that dated gay or bisexual guys.   They are fooled at first because if a guy has sex with them they must be straight right?  Many of the girls have suspected their guy was gay.   Eventually the relationship self destructs.

as most relationships do when you don't 'love the one you're with'...

 ::)  :-\ :)
" a thirst for life, for love, and for truth..."

Offline Katie77

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 7,999
  • Love is a force of Nature
When Kat first mentioned this subject in her blog, this is the reply that i sent her.


I read what you wrote Kat, with quite a personal interest, and you know, that wold make a good thread, asking people what they would have done, if they were Alma, after seeing them at the bottom of the stairs.

You see, my mum was an "Alma", and it was in the 1950's.......that was when she would have found out that my dad was homosexual......she too, was married with two little daughters.

Now I dont know much about the time line of when it was revealed, or even what her reactions were, I have never asked her, she is in her eighties now....maybe I should ask, Im not sure how to approach it, or if I should....I can only go on what I remember, and because I was only seven when they fnally did split, the memories I have are pretty scant.

I remember the "friends" that used to visit our home, and I remember mum and dad going out socially todgether with these friends as well. I remember going to the beach as a kid, often with dad and his "friend". I remember visiting dad's friends at their house, and them visiting us, I remember one in particular, who worked for Cadburys, and he always bought mum and us kids, chocolates....I remember meeting his little sister too, she was the same age as me....so somewhere or sometime, there must have been some gatherings when our family socialiized with his family.

Of course then, I did not think these male visitors were anything more than my parents friends, and I dont know exactly what kind of relationship my father had with them......I am talking about probably four "friends" that I remember....i think two were a "couple", and the others were friends with each other as well as my dad.

That one friend, (the one who workd for Cadburys) remained good friends with my dad for many many years, I remember he sent me a message when I got married, so that shows how long they were friends. I think he kept in touch with my mum too. My mum always spoke nicely of him.

From what I gather, these men thought a lot of mum, gave her the utmost respect, and I think she accepted them, and liked them too...

Then my dad met Allen, who was only 17 (my dad would have been 32)....and my mum was not happy that Dad had got into a relationship with someone so young, and it was then that she split with dad......Dad and Allen lived together for the next 14 years.

Me and my sister had a great relationship with Allen, he was like a big brother to us, we loved him dearly and he loved us and treated us like his little sisters....of course when we were younger, we did not realize the relationshp that him and my dad had, but as we got older we knew it was something a bit "different"....my mum met someone else, and re-married, and even though she did not approve of dad and Allen's relationship, originally, she was still friendly towards them, and they often visited our new home, and spent Christmas and other special occassions with us. My sister and I, also used to go and visit Dad and Allen regularly for weekends and holidays.

Gee, I'm bringing up things here that I had not thought about or even remembered for a long long time...I've really been digging deep in the memory bank here........I started this off, in reply to your comment on what YOU would have done if you were Alma, and just wanted to let you know, that it could be possible to do what you said you would do.......even if only for a short time......




Like I said here, I really dug into the memory bank here, and in the hours since I wrote it, I have been doing quite a bit of thinking about it.

When I try to picture my mum and dad, in their late 20's, in the early 1950's, coming to terms with my dad's homosexuality, I cant help thinking that it must have been confusing for both of them. They would not have had anyone they could talk to about it, or give them any advice, so I think they just carried on their life as best they could.

Although as I've mentioned that my mum accepted my dad's friends, there still must have been some terrible hurt and disappointment that the man she married and loved needed someone else in his life, that she was never going to have a "normal" life with him. She must have been scared of what the future held for her and us kids. Did she look for love elsewhere? I dont know. Whatever, it all must have been very frightening and stressful for her.

It would be hard enough in today's life to cope with the situation, but for a woman to survive on her own in the mid 50's with two young children was, it was even harder. There was no governement benefits in those days for single parents, there were not that many jobs for women then. My mum did not have any family that could give her assistance either.

When she did leave, we moved to another city 100 miles away, my mum got a job in a telelvision factory, and we lived in one room in a boarding house for some time. My dad moved to the same city with Allen. I assume Dad gave mum some financiial support as well..... My mum, at 32 with two young children, going at it alone in those times was very brave......but when you think of it, she really had no choice but to leave and start a life of her own......there really was nothing else she could do to ensure the well being of herself and me and my sister.......she did the right thing, she made the right choice, it wasn't easy, but it was the only thing should could do..........
Being happy doesn't mean everything is perfect.

It means you've decided to see beyond the imperfection

Offline Front-Ranger

  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,049
  • Brokeback got us good.
I would have counted my lucky stars that I was married to a man magnet like Ennis!  ::)

No, I really should take this seriously...let's see...I'm just not sure that all marriages of a gay and a straight in the '50s and '60s were unhappy. Maybe, for some, it worked out just fine. Like Jack and Lureen's marriage, which seemed to be fairly amiable until later on. Of course, these days, there would be no reason to continue the marriage. Husband and wife could divorce amicably and pursue their own relationships wherever they wish...or could they?

Your reminescences are very interesting, Katie Sue! Thanks for sharing!!
Too much to do. . .I don't have time to get old!

Offline Brown Eyes

  • BetterMost Supporter!
  • BetterMost Moderator
  • The BetterMost 10,000 Post Club
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,375
I would have counted my lucky stars that I was married to a man magnet like Ennis!  ::)

No, I really should take this seriously...let's see...I'm just not sure that all marriages of a gay and a straight in the '50s and '60s were unhappy. Maybe, for some, it worked out just fine. Like Jack and Lureen's marriage, which seemed to be fairly amiable until later on. Of course, these days, there would be no reason to continue the marriage. Husband and wife could divorce amicably and pursue their own relationships wherever they wish...or could they?

Your reminescences are very interesting, Katie Sue! Thanks for sharing!!


Hi Lee,

I think this is a very interesting observation on this question.  BBM presents us with two different ways that marriages between gay/bisexual men and straight women could play out.  It's very interesting to note the differences between Lureen and Alma.  I agree that for the most part, the relationship between Lureen and Jack is friendly and amiable (more like a marriage between friends than a marriage between lovers), until the end where tensions are rising of course.  It's interesting that except for the moments when Jack is thinking about running away with Ennis, he doesn't seem to ponder the idea of getting a divorce (for it's own sake).

Lureen and Alma are so different as women though (just as Ennis and Jack are very different), so on another level it's hard to compare their different reactions and actions.  I mean, Lureen is a college-educated business woman while Alma's sphere of experience seems to be more limited. 

Actually, it's interesting to realize how little we know about Alma's own personal background compared to Lureen... at least we have some sense of Lureen's range of experience (college, sorority, rodeo star, business, family dynamics... we really know a lot about her compared to Alma).

Anyway, I don't know how to interject into this scenario how I myself would react, simply because I really find it hard to project myself into Alma's shoes.  I have no idea what it would have been like to be a woman in Wyoming during the time period of the film/story.  I would hope that I would have the good sense to divorce Ennis much sooner than happens in BBM, but again, it's hard to hypothesize about this.

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline delalluvia

  • BetterMost 5000+ Posts Club
  • *******
  • Posts: 8,289
  • "Truth is an iron bride"
First off, I can't reconcile "my current mindset" and "the 1960's" in this thought experiment Kat.  My current mindset is the product of my generation, the late 20th and early 21st century.  The way I think now was not the way most people thought back then.

So being in Alma's shoes, I'd probably be furious and scared.  Furious, because of Ennis' waywardness ("I'm a woman, his wife and the mother of his children, he promised to love ME!") and scared because I'm a mother of two, one man away from welfare and going back to my family in disgrace because I had to get divorced.  Divorce had a pretty big stigma back when.

I'm in love with a man who doesn't talk.  So sitting down to have an in-depth conversation about Ennis' true feelings is a laughably pie-in-the-sky-never-going-to-happen scenario.  Ennis never talked about his true feelings to the love of his life, what chance do I have as Alma to get him to open up?  And knowing Ennis, I wouldn't even consider doing it.  So basically, I don't think I'd react any more different than Alma did.

Offline Katness

  • Brokeback Got Me Good
  • *****
  • Posts: 336
  • Proud wolf in human clothing.
I'll reply to this properly later when my brain can think again.

Sincerely, Kat.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are missing.

If all is not lost, then where is it?

I used to have a handle on life, but it broke.