Space Travel

[injest]

NASA has a training camp in Utah that similates the Mars landscape. The trip takes almost 2 years?? Would you go? Would it make a difference if you were first?

or would you prefer to wait til it was done a few times so you feel more confident that you would make it?

[dot-matrix]

Nope

[moremojo]

I can't even get on an airplane. I would never be able to handle space flight.

[Dagi]

No. There are still so many places left on this planet that I want to travel to. But maybe in another life!

[David In Indy]

I'd like to go, but I heard a scientist, or a physicist (or something like that) say that everyone would have to be put into a state of "suspended animation", which is just one hair shy of actually being DEAD! Then, once the space ship approaches Mars, everyone would wake back up.

That makes me nervous. So, I don't think I'd probably do it.

[David In Indy]

I see many people in suspended animation.  You should see how fast they come back to life at the end of their shift!   LOL   

 

Yup. I think we've all seen it!

[injest]

I see many people in suspended animation.  You should see how fast they come back to life at the end of their shift!   LOL   

 

[injest]

this morning on ABC they had a segment on the idea, which gave me the idea for the thread, they are doing experiments with people laying in bed to get an idea of how weightlessness would affect them?? that doesn't make sense to me...so maybe I heard it wrong..

anyway they were saying they are considering putting a centrifuge in the craft...you know one of those things that spin the astronauts around in training to similate the pressure of launch? they say that would similate gravity for the travelers.

I think it is cool and would like to go in theory but no way in real life!!

 

[brokeplex]

this morning on ABC they had a segment on the idea, which gave me the idea for the thread, they are doing experiments with people laying in bed to get an idea of how weightlessness would affect them?? that doesn't make sense to me...so maybe I heard it wrong..

anyway they were saying they are considering putting a centrifuge in the craft...you know one of those things that spin the astronauts around in training to similate the pressure of launch? they say that would similate gravity for the travelers.

I think it is cool and would like to go in theory but no way in real life!!

 

You don't need a centrifuge, you simply add spin to the spacecraft itself. This will simulate Earth gravity, and is necessary for long voyages. The types of voyages where suspended animation is necessary would be the interstellar type. Just journeying to Mars would not take so much time as to require freezer units. But, without breaking the light barrier (warp speed for Trekies like me) you need either multigenerational ships, or cryofreezers for the very, very long trips to even the nearest stars.

[injest]

with no guarantee of what you will find at the end...

[David In Indy]

You don't need a centrifuge, you simply add spin to the spacecraft itself. This will simulate Earth gravity, and is necessary for long voyages. The types of voyages where suspended animation is necessary would be the interstellar type. Just journeying to Mars would not take so much time as to require freezer units. But, without breaking the light barrier (warp speed for Trekies like me) you need either multigenerational ships, or cryofreezers for the very, very long trips to even the nearest stars.

Folks from NASA were the ones I heard talking about the suspended animation. They said it would be necessary on a mission to Mars because of the food and water situation. It wouldn't be pratical and also very difficult to store enough food and water to feed a crew for two years - especially if it is a round trip which would actually be four years supply of food and water aboard.

But I heard that a couple of years ago, and maybe they have figured something out between then and now. 

[injest]

Folks from NASA were the ones I heard talking about the suspended animation. They said it would be necessary on a mission to Mars because of the food and water situation. It wouldn't be pratical and also very difficult to store enough food and water to feed a crew for two years - especially if it is a round trip which would actually be four years supply of food and water aboard.

But I heard that a couple of years ago, and maybe they have figured something out between then and now. 

aw!! now see...I didn't think about the food or water!!

you have a good point, David...

[brokeplex]

water will be recycled, no need to store it, just refine your piss and youv'e got NASA spring water!

Food can be dehydrated and stored as well, the prospective travel time to Mars is only 9 months to a year, well within the capabilities of our technology right now to send a small crew there and back with no major storage problems.

cryostorage however is probably the only way that humans will make it to even the nearest star systems, until Cochrane invents warp drive after WWIII

[injest]

water will be recycled, no need to store it, just refine your piss and youv'e got NASA spring water!

Food can be dehydrated and stored as well, the prospective travel time to Mars is only 9 months to a year, well within the capabilities of our technology right now to send a small crew there and back with no major storage problems.

cryostorage however is probably the only way that humans will make it to even the nearest star systems, until Cochrane invents warp drive after WWIII

 

[brokeplex]

Do your laughing cowboys indicate that you doubt that Prof Cochrane will invent warp drive, or that there will be a WWIII?

Injest, you are a sci-fi fan, why don't you drive over to DFW next Sat and meet me at ConDFW sci-fi convention? It'll be a hoot and a holler!

[injest]

Do your laughing cowboys indicate that you doubt that Prof Cochrane will invent warp drive, or that there will be a WWIII?

Injest, you are a sci-fi fan, why don't you drive over to DFW next Sat and meet me at ConDFW sci-fi convention? It'll be a hoot and a holler!

cause I gotta go watch the cowboys chase cows around!! they pay me a dollar for everyone there....I can make $250 - $500 for one day and all I gotta do is look at handsome men on horseback!!

(I know...TOUGH job but somebody has to do it)

[delalluvia]

Zefram Cochrane?  That drunk?  It'll never get off the ground.   

[delalluvia]

Where is the ConDFW taking place?

[injest]

Zefram Cochrane?  That drunk?  It'll never get off the ground.   

yep, he is nothing but a dreamer!!

[brokeplex]

Where is the ConDFW taking place?

Richardson - the Marriot Hotel

[brokeplex]

and I'm sorry if I misled anyone on the date of the event, it will be held  Feb 22-Feb 24

[injest]

and I'm sorry if I misled anyone on the date of the event, it will be held  Feb 22-Feb 24

well that is not this Sat!! 

[injest]

Trust me, after WWIII nobody is going anywhere using any technology other than carving rocks into wheels again.   

well obviously you have not been watching Star Trek...we are gonna be fine! (Gene Roddenberry wouldn't lie to us!!)

(actually - and don't laugh - but I am buying heirloom seeds so when we get in really bad shape we will have plants that regenerate themselves instead of those that you buy at the store that only last one season..)


not that I am paranoid or anything...

[injest]

I guess I've watched the Planet of the Apes too many times.    LOL

gotta love the Ape men....

my favorite sci fi is short stories that destroy everything...you know end of the world, end of civilization...cheerful stuff like that!

[delalluvia]

How long do those heirloom seeds last?

Gene Roddenberry, Planet of the Apes, Jericho...Mad Max

Well, like in the words of the song from "Beyond Thunderdome"

"They always said that the living would envy the dead"

I hope I'm not around to use those heirloom seeds.  It ain't going to be pretty, whatever is left.

[injest]

How long do those heirloom seeds last?

Gene Roddenberry, Planet of the Apes, Jericho...Mad Max

Well, like in the words of the song from "Beyond Thunderdome"

"They always said that the living would envy the dead"

I hope I'm not around to use those heirloom seeds.  It ain't going to be pretty, whatever is left.

you mean if you don't use them? for a while....I intend to start planting them so I will have my own seeds. The plants you buy from the store (or seeds)? the seeds from the fruit that grows won't grow right. they are too fragile.

[brokeplex]

well that is not this Sat!! 

yep, sorry I was yawning while posting the other night : here is the "straight" scoop on ConDFW, I'll read it off the card they sent to me asking me to pre-register.

Con DFW VII - A Science Fiction and Fantasy Event
Feb 22-24, 2008 - Radisson Hotel Dallas North (1981 N Central Expr, Richardson, TX 75080)
Guest of Honor - Peter Beagle
Artist Guest - Donato Giancola
40 guest panelists / Dealers Room / Art Show / Autographs / Panel Discussions

www.condfw.org

sorry I gave y'all a lot of bad info, as D.L. reminds me, I shouldn't post anything on web sites after I start yawning.

live long and prosper mightily!

[Artiste]

Yes!

Already lived and live again in similar spot as the moon!!

Even the USA first spacemen came here to train!!

Be fun to space travel and soon we can. Already some millionnaires did!!

It will be as common as taking the Concorde!! Why??

Hugs!

[David In Indy]

Yes!

Already lived and live again in similar spot as the moon!!

Even the USA first spacemen came here to train!!

Be fun to space travel and soon we can. Already some millionnaires did!!

It will be as common as taking the Concorde!! Why??

Hugs!

Hi Artiste!

What do you mean we've already lived there? You mean the moon?   

Yes, it probably will be quite common someday to travel to space. In fact Richard Branson, owner of the British company Virgin Airlines is already taking steps towards it....

You can read about it here....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Galactic

And here.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SpaceShipTwo

[Lynne]

I would visit other planets if it were possible...I understand the practical space/times problems with interstellar travel, but I remain convinced we're on the verge of inventing the warp drive and living in a Star Trek world...boldly going, etc...

[David In Indy]

I would visit other planets if it were possible...I understand the practical space/times problems with interstellar travel, but I remain convinced we're on the verge of inventing the warp drive and living in a Star Trek world...boldly going, etc...

You understand physics too, don't you Lynne? So I find your comments very interesting. And hopeful. Maybe someday we'll actually do it. I just wonder if any of us will live to see it?

[brokeplex]

I would visit other planets if it were possible...I understand the practical space/times problems with interstellar travel, but I remain convinced we're on the verge of inventing the warp drive and living in a Star Trek world...boldly going, etc...

I sure hope that you are correct about the "warp drive" breakthrough! Now don't tell me that matter / energy transporters are on the horizon, I have some really serious concerns about being disassembled and reassembled! I was looking thru my old copy of "The Physics of Star Trek" and enjoyed reading about the theoretical possibilties of FTL travel. Maybe you are correct, lets hope so, humankind needs a backup world in case we totally muck up this one beyond repair.

[Artiste]

Yes, now am at a place where the USA space men came since it's very similar to the moon terrain!!

There was something on TV news yesterday that showed that some scientists are finding a science experiment similar to warp or likewise...like a person disapearing and appearing elsewhere in space, but that is far away to prototype this as possibilities, yet!!

Science fiction can sometime become real?? Some Humans desire to go to the Moon, Mars, elsewhere!!

Hugs!!

[Kerry]

I guess I'd have to get over my flying phobia first, before giving serious consideration to space travel, and I can't see that happening any time soon.

Nope, space travel ain't my glass of tea. 

[Lynne]

I sure hope that you are correct about the "warp drive" breakthrough! Now don't tell me that matter / energy transporters are on the horizon, I have some really serious concerns about being disassembled and reassembled! I was looking thru my old copy of "The Physics of Star Trek" and enjoyed reading about the theoretical possibilities of FTL travel. Maybe you are correct, lets hope so, humankind needs a backup world in case we totally muck up this one beyond repair.

Sorry, Brokeplex, but I think that the matter/energy transporters are much closer to reality than my beloved warp-drive fantasy.  I read an article awhile back - I'll look for the reference - claiming that scientists had 'transported' an atom or particle or something from point A to point B.  The upshot was that no physical movement took place, but the properties of the particle (spin, etc...) were conveyed from a particle at point A to the one at B...a small step to be sure, but if we're all just made up of particles...

PS.  My geeky self spent a precious day off yesterday watching the season of Firefly from start to finish...highly recommended for sci-fi and/or Joss Whedon fans.  The movie SERENITY is next on that list, after I rally myself to watch TWO HANDS

And 'Amen' to the backup world plan too... 

[David In Indy]

I was in the Mojave Desert to watch the two successful flights of Space Ship One and the winning of the X Prize.  Space Ship Two is well on its way.  In 2009 or shortly thereafter, anyone with the money will be able to purchase a ticket for about $200,000 to take a suborbital flight.  It is a lot, but sure beats the $20 Million each paid by five individuals to visit the International Space Station on the Russian Soyuz.  Branson and company expect to eventually drop the price to about $30,000 a seat.

This makes me remember something else I heard Richard Branson say. He said he was working on an airplane which would jump UP very fast and into space (or near space) and then fall back to earth very quickly. While this may sound silly, he said this type of technology would reduce a normal 18 hour flight from the US to Australia, down to 1 or 2 hours. Because instead of circling the earth like an airplane does, this aircraft would jump up from the US from example, and fall down and land in Australia. I don't understand it really, but I remember Richard talking about it and it was very interesting.

[David In Indy]

I am familiar with this, although I have not heard Branson speak about it specifically.  The idea is that an aircraft would actually leave the atmosphere (suborbitally) and so be able to fly very high and fast, with little resistance, and indeed travel from Point A to Point B across the world in an hour or two.  This is similar to how the Concorde flew so fast (3 hours from NY to London).  It flew at 60,000 feet, at Mach 2.

Having spent way too many hours on commercial airliners, suborbital point to point travel is near and dear to my heart.  It is a natural progression from the Virgin Galactic space tourism flights.  It is a sad state of affairs indeed that the world retired its last supersonic commercial aircraft (the Concorde) a few years back.  I am hopeful of a replacement on the horizon.

I believe I heard Richard Branson talking about in on Larry King one night. At least I THINK it was Larry King. 

Anway, it seems they will be unveiling some new technology very soon. Richard Branson is encouraged, so that in itself encourages me.

Welcome to Bettermost Susiebk!!

[brokeplex]

Sorry, Brokeplex, but I think that the matter/energy transporters are much closer to reality than my beloved warp-drive fantasy.  I read an article awhile back - I'll look for the reference - claiming that scientists had 'transported' an atom or particle or something from point A to point B.  The upshot was that no physical movement took place, but the properties of the particle (spin, etc...) were conveyed from a particle at point A to the one at B...a small step to be sure, but if we're all just made up of particles...

PS.  My geeky self spent a precious day off yesterday watching the season of Firefly from start to finish...highly recommended for sci-fi and/or Joss Whedon fans.  The movie SERENITY is next on that list, after I rally myself to watch TWO HANDS

And 'Amen' to the backup world plan too... 

good point about the transferabilty of "spin", I read a similar science news report a few years back. it seemed to me at the time that this was an excellent illustration of the old quantum paradox of not being able to measure a subatomic particle without affecting the nature of the subatomic particle, those scientists actually measured the effect that they were having on the subatomic particle. but, can we actually transport Schroederinger's cat from my house to yours, if so, I will be happy to send you my longhaired Siamese tonight, he is going thru a howling juvenile puberty phase, complete with yet again trying to walk on my keyboard while I am attempting to post.

Firefly is really great, glad you like Sci-fi, I am attending one of DFW's scifi cons this coming weekend and hope to buy some great posters.

[Artiste]

So found to-night from a space astronaut that when they are in space, that their bones deteriate!!

Maybe even for life even when returned on Earth!

Much needs to be done... yet!

Did you know?

Hugs!!

[David In Indy]

So found to-night from a space astronaut that when they are in space, that their bones deteriate!!

Maybe even for life even when returned on Earth!

Much needs to be done... yet!

Did you know?

Hugs!!

I think I've heard about that too Artiste. Apparently there are several adverse affects to living in space. But isn't this one of the reasons they are building the International Space Station? So they can work out some of these problems for the future space flights?

[brokeplex]

I think I've heard about that too Artiste. Apparently there are several adverse affects to living in space. But isn't this one of the reasons they are building the International Space Station? So they can work out some of these problems for the future space flights?

yes, decalcification of the bones and atrophying of the muscles are two of the problems found when extensive time is spent in a weighless environment.

[Artiste]

That:

decalcification of the bones 

,

will that lead absolutely to MM??

Hugs!!

[brokeplex]

That: ,

will that lead absolutely to MM??

Hugs!!

is "MM" Michael Moore? if it is then we all need to take our calcium pills every day.

[Artiste]

Ha1 Ha! Funny! Thanks!

MM is multiple myeloma... or m is myeloma.

It is part of osteoporosis, I consider it!

  Multiple Myeloma
What Is Multiple Myeloma?
 
Multiple myeloma is a type of cancer formed by malignant plasma cells. Normal plasma cells are an important part of the immune system.

The immune system is composed of several types of cells that work together to fight infections and other diseases. Lymphocytes (lymph cells) are the main cell type of the immune system. There are 2 types of lymphocytes: T cells and B cells.

When B cells respond to an infection, they mature and change into plasma cells. Plasma cells live mainly in the bone marrow. Bone marrow is the soft, inner part of bones. The role of plasma cells is to produce and release proteins called antibodies (or immunoglobulins) to attack and help kill disease-causing germs such as bacteria and viruses.

When plasma cells grow out of control, they can produce a tumor. These tumors generally develop in the bone marrow. If there is only one tumor, it is called a plasmacytoma. Usually, the plasma cell tumors are spread throughout the bone marrow and then they are referred to as myeloma or multiple myeloma.

The overgrowth of plasma cells can interfere with the normal blood-forming functions of the bone marrow. This can result in a shortage of red blood cells, a condition called anemia. Anemia causes fatigue. A shortage of blood platelets (cells that seal damaged blood vessels) can also occur. This can lead to excessive bleeding after cuts or scrapes. Another problem caused by an excess of plasma cells is leukopenia, a condition in which there is a shortage of normal infection-fighting white blood cells. A shortage of these cells causes decreased resistance to infections.

The myeloma also reacts with bone-dissolving cells. There are 2 major kinds of bone cells. Osteoblasts make bone and osteoclasts dissolve it. These 2 kinds of cells work together to model each bone into its proper shape. Myeloma cells make a substance that stimulates osteoclasts and speeds up the dissolving of bone. Weakened and even fractured bones are a major problem in people with myeloma.

The abnormal plasma cells do not protect the body from infections. As mentioned before, normal plasma cells produce antibodies that attack specific infectious agents. For example, if you developed pneumonia, normal plasma cells would produce antibodies that specifically attack and kill this type of bacteria. However, the antibodies produced by myeloma cells are not helpful in fighting infections.

Sometimes, before multiple myeloma develops, it is preceded by another condition of excessive plasma cell growth. This condition is called monoclonal gammopathy of undetermined significance.

Monoclonal Gammopathy of Undetermined Significance (MGUS)

In monoclonal gammopathy of undetermined significance (MGUS), abnormal plasma cells produce excess amounts of antibody protein. However, these plasma cells do not form an actual tumor or mass and do not cause any symptoms. MGUS usually does not affect a person's health. In particular, it doesn't cause bone weakening. It is found because a routine blood test finds a high level of protein in the blood and further testing shows the protein is immunoglobulin.

With time, many people with MGUS eventually develop multiple myeloma, lymphoma, or a disease called amyloidosis. The rate of this happening is about 1% per year. The risk of this happening is higher in people whose protein levels are particularly high. Patients with MGUS usually need frequent medical examinations and tests to detect possible progression to multiple myeloma, but they do not need immediate treatment.

Recently, scientists have studied the genes of the plasma cells in patients with MGUS. They found that the genetic make-up of these plasma cells resembles myeloma plasma cells more than it resembles normal plasma cells. This suggests that these cells are truly malignant, not just slow growing. Because, in general, people with MGUS are elderly, they may not live long enough for their MGUS to transform into myeloma.

Solitary Plasmacytomas

This is another category of plasma cell growth. Rather than multiple tumors in different locations as in multiple myeloma, there is only 1 tumor, hence the name "solitary" plasmacytomas.

Solitary plasmacytomas develop in bone marrow, or they may start in tissues other than bone marrow (such as the lungs or the lining of the sinuses, throat, or other organs). This is called extramedullary disease, meaning outside the bone marrow. These tumors are treated by radiation therapy and/or sometimes with surgery. The patient's outlook for recovery or survival is usually excellent if no other plasmacytomas are found later on. However, most people with solitary plasmacytoma will develop multiple myeloma, especially if the plasmacytoma were in bone, and therefore these people need frequent examinations and tests to detect this progression as early as possible. Early treatment may lead to an improved outcome.


 
 

........

MM is bones breaking too!!

Hugs!! Any medical doctor here??

[brokeplex]

ouch!

[brokeplex]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/Movies/02/17/boxoffice.ap/index.html

Has anyone seen "Jumper" yet? Let me know what you think of this new sci-fi movie starring Darth Vader.

[Artiste]

Is it France saying that it intends to do so now?

Too the uSA? More news on that too?

Hugs!