Author Topic: Is It Time For the US To Change Its Gun Laws?  (Read 9219 times)

Offline David In Indy

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Re: Is It Time For the US To Change Its Gun Laws?
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2008, 01:41:28 am »
It just seems to me if Australia did it, we can do it too. Whether one is pro guns or anti guns, I think nearly every American will agree SOMETHING needs to be done about this. There is no doubt these shootings are on the rise in this country. The question is, what do we do about it?

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Offline David In Indy

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Re: Is It Time For the US To Change Its Gun Laws?
« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2008, 01:49:26 am »
Well, we agree on the fear component in this discussion. I am also afraid of a future that will probably contain psycho killers and terrorists.

If I were convinced that confiscating all firearms, and that would have to include hunting rifles, the man in IL apparently killed with a shot gun, could be done in a timely and peaceful manner, and that such confiscation would eliminate incidents that we now see in IL, and earlier in WV, and VA, well then I would be all in favor of rapid confiscation. No exceptions, just law enforcement and the military would be allowed to carry firearms.

I am a conservative, but I am not a 2nd Amendment conservative. I think most of the NRA is a bit wacky in fact. I can't make an argument that 2nd amendment protections to the right to bear arms are viable in today's world. My opinion is that the 2nd amendment was written and approved by those at the constitutional convention who favored the arming of all state militias as an abettment to easy secession from the union, if that was ever needed. State militias were each states's defense against a tyrannical central government, go look at the debates over the 2nd amendment during the that time frame and you will see much discussion about whether the US was a voluntary association of sovereign states, to be broken up at will, or an integral union. This discussion was finally and completely answered in the Civil War, the Confederacy taking the right to secession and arming of state militia's seriously decided to secede. Pres Lincoln had other ideas, saying "The Constitution is not a suicide pact".

That should have been the end of 2nd Amendment discussions, it was a dead letter. Until the NRA, gave it new life.

I can't agree with gun free zones or gun control because that just won't work. We just can't get all the guns out of the hands of those who wish to kill. And, there will always be crazies who wish to kill some of us. I would rather have the option of defense other than my wit and charm. Also, schools need to be able to intervene in the lives of those who exhibit crazy behavior, the guy who shot up Virginia Tech was crying out for help. Over and over again we see behavioral patterns in these killers that alert us that they may be dangerous. I'd rather be safe than sorry and intervene in their lives.  

Well I agree with 90 percent of what you said. And yes, the NRA is a total nutcase.

The part I have issue with your comments about owning a gun for self protection. While I do feel this is a good idea in theory, I am not at all comfortable with the idea of any Tom, Dick or Harry walking around with a gun in his pocket. It makes me nervous. They did a bust on a gun shop here in Indianapolis last year. The owner was selling guns without doing any background checks!! I couldn't believe it. They closed the store but I wonder how many other gun stores are doing this sort of thing as well?

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Offline delalluvia

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Re: Is It Time For the US To Change Its Gun Laws?
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2008, 01:53:28 am »
It just seems to me if Australia did it, we can do it too

Australia — Population: 20,434,176 (July 2007 est.)
United States — Population: 301,139,947 (July 2007 est.)

Quote
Whether one is pro guns or anti guns, I think nearly every American will agree SOMETHING needs to be done about this. There is no doubt these shootings are on the rise in this country. The question is, what do we do about it?

I don't know what we could do that would actually accomplish what people who want gun control want.  When the Columbine thing happened, some of our local schools down here reassured parents that the same couldn't happen in their schools because they had a large security guard staff and metal detectors at each door.

I'm not sure outlawing handguns and turning every possible place into a Fort Knox is a viable solution.


Offline forsythia12

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Re: Is It Time For the US To Change Its Gun Laws?
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2008, 01:57:12 am »
well, let me say firstly, i live in canada, and our gun laws are absolutely ridiculous.  there were several gun shootings in the city where i grew up,(vancouver, bc)  right now i live in a remote little city full of farms and forests, and outdoor life.  when i lived in the city, guns meant something else.  they meant to do harm to others.  out here, guns are for pleasure in target practice, skeet shooting, hunting, personal protection....etc...
i have been out with friends learning gun safety, shooting targets, and it's really fun.  i am studying now to get my firearms liscense, and i'm excited about it. .....but, the people in parliment who know nothing about guns have introduced absurd gun laws, so much so that a person who owns a handgun cannot use it, transport it, or even clean the freaking thing.  so, in a nut shell, freaks who take guns to schools have set the bar for new legislation, and now everyone has to pay...
not to mention, guns used in crimes ARE NOT REGISTERED GUNS.  they are stolen guns.
i could go on and on and on and on about our gun laws, but, all in all......they don't work.  they're pathetic.  my husband and i, and friends of ours, who are firearm enthusiasts, have discussed many times what they need to do, but we all agree tougher laws don't help.  ......or at least, the types of laws canada has introduced thus far are not fixing the problem.  i don't know what the answer is, but canada is not the place to look.  there are several shootings here.  so far, in 2008, vancouver has had 8 murders  due to gun violence, and that's just one city...so yes, it does happen here despite our laws.

and about the comments about police officers.  yes, i understand you're frustration when stories about time delays have costed lives, but my husband is a cop and i'll tell you first hand that they do the best they can everyday they put their lives on the line for all of us.

in meyerthorpe alberta a few years back we lost four rcmp members due to a psycho attacked them with a rifle.

our laws did not help those men.

as the saying goes....guns don't kill people....people do.
right now, our justice system is the problem.  no one gets punished in this country anymore.  our judges are way too easy on convicted criminals, and it makes me sick to see what people get away with.
 
a few years ago, a gas station attendant tried to stop a car who was doing a 'gas and dash', and while trying to stop the car, he got run over, and the gas theives dragged him under the car for 8 blocks until there was nothing left of the poor boys body.  
the driver and passenger got about 4 years or something in prision.
now, instead of punishing the criminals properly, we now have a pre-pay policy when we buy gas.  it's ridiculous.  you go in, guess how much gas you need, pay, then they turn on the pumps and some attendant pumps the exact amount you paid for, and not a penny more.
so now, we are all paying because this is such a hassle...especially if you guess the wrong amount, or need a little more than expected.
 if someone is going to steal gas, they're going to steal gas...so now, the criminal is going to go inside the store, point a gun at the clerk and tell him to turn on the pumps...and i'll tell you now, more deaths are going to happen.

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Is It Time For the US To Change Its Gun Laws?
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2008, 01:58:04 am »
Well I agree with 90 percent of what you said. And yes, the NRA is a total nutcase.

The part I have issue with your comments about owning a gun for self protection. While I do feel this is a good idea in theory, I am not at all comfortable with the idea of any Tom, Dick or Harry walking around with a gun in his pocket. It makes me nervous. They did a bust on a gun shop here in Indianapolis last year. The owner was selling guns without doing any background checks!! I couldn't believe it. They closed the store but I wonder how many other gun stores are doing this sort of thing as well?



 Sellling guns without the background checks is and should be treated as a serious felony. The fact is that right now "Tom" and his brothers and sisters are walking around packing. That is the fact of life in the US. How do we stop the crazies from killing the rest of us? That seems to me the only serious discussion we can have about these killings, and I mean that comment with no disrespect to those who disagree with me. The truth is that it is just not socially or politically possible to get the type of gun control you see in other societies implemented here. We should talk about better screenings for those who might go postal, we should talk about more security protection in public places.

A few weeks ago, a crazy man attempted to invade and shoot up a large mega church somewhere in the US (I'll find the link later), the church had an armed and trained security guard who took that sucker down with her own gun. That brave woman is my hero because she saved lives.

Offline David In Indy

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Re: Is It Time For the US To Change Its Gun Laws?
« Reply #15 on: February 15, 2008, 02:12:31 am »
well, let me say firstly, i live in canada, and our gun laws are absolutely ridiculous.  there were several gun shootings in the city where i grew up,(vancouver, bc)  right now i live in a remote little city full of farms and forests, and outdoor life.  when i lived in the city, guns meant something else.  they meant to do harm to others.  out here, guns are for pleasure in target practice, skeet shooting, hunting, personal protection....etc...
i have been out with friends learning gun safety, shooting targets, and it's really fun.  i am studying now to get my firearms liscense, and i'm excited about it. .....but, the people in parliment who know nothing about guns have introduced absurd gun laws, so much so that a person who owns a handgun cannot use it, transport it, or even clean the freaking thing.  so, in a nut shell, freaks who take guns to schools have set the bar for new legislation, and now everyone has to pay...
not to mention, guns used in crimes ARE NOT REGISTERED GUNS.  they are stolen guns.
i could go on and on and on and on about our gun laws, but, all in all......they don't work.  they're pathetic.  my husband and i, and friends of ours, who are firearm enthusiasts, have discussed many times what they need to do, but we all agree tougher laws don't help.  ......or at least, the types of laws canada has introduced thus far are not fixing the problem.  i don't know what the answer is, but canada is not the place to look.  there are several shootings here.  so far, in 2008, vancouver has had 8 murders  due to gun violence, and that's just one city...so yes, it does happen here despite our laws.

and about the comments about police officers.  yes, i understand you're frustration when stories about time delays have costed lives, but my husband is a cop and i'll tell you first hand that they do the best they can everyday they put their lives on the line for all of us.

in meyerthorpe alberta a few years back we lost four rcmp members due to a psycho attacked them with a rifle.

our laws did not help those men.

as the saying goes....guns don't kill people....people do.
right now, our justice system is the problem.  no one gets punished in this country anymore.  our judges are way too easy on convicted criminals, and it makes me sick to see what people get away with.
 
a few years ago, a gas station attendant tried to stop a car who was doing a 'gas and dash', and while trying to stop the car, he got run over, and the gas theives dragged him under the car for 8 blocks until there was nothing left of the poor boys body.  
the driver and passenger got about 4 years or something in prision.
now, instead of punishing the criminals properly, we now have a pre-pay policy when we buy gas.  it's ridiculous.  you go in, guess how much gas you need, pay, then they turn on the pumps and some attendant pumps the exact amount you paid for, and not a penny more.
so now, we are all paying because this is such a hassle...especially if you guess the wrong amount, or need a little more than expected.
 if someone is going to steal gas, they're going to steal gas...so now, the criminal is going to go inside the store, point a gun at the clerk and tell him to turn on the pumps...and i'll tell you now, more deaths are going to happen.


Hi Forsythia!! Thanks for posting your comments and ideas! We appreciate it. It sounds like you are pro guns, which is absolutely fine.

I'd love to hear your ideas as a Canadian as to what we here in the US could do in order to help alleviate the increase in shootings inside our country. I'd very much value your comments.

Oh! By the way, anyone is welcome to post in this thread. I'd love to hear from some of our non American brokies about this. Maybe some of the things you are doing in your countries could help us here in the US.

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Offline forsythia12

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Re: Is It Time For the US To Change Its Gun Laws?
« Reply #16 on: February 15, 2008, 02:23:30 am »
well, i guess i'm pro guns.  like i said in my post, being in this town has shown me another side to guns that i never knew before.  i used to hate them.
so i'm pro gun, if the guns are owned and operated by the right people, for the right reasons.
i'm pro gun safety, knowledge, and proper use of one.
i don't hunt, but i'm not anti-hunt either.
i'm pro rights...and i hate it when good peple, have to pay due to some sort of  "blanket solution " that doesn't solve anything.
i'll keep checking in, and posting on this thread.  my friends and husband have some good ideas, so i'll pass those ideas on here.

Offline David In Indy

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Re: Is It Time For the US To Change Its Gun Laws?
« Reply #17 on: February 15, 2008, 02:30:22 am »
well, i guess i'm pro guns.  like i said in my post, being in this town has shown me another side to guns that i never knew before.  i used to hate them.
so i'm pro gun, if the guns are owned and operated by the right people, for the right reasons.
i'm pro gun safety, knowledge, and proper use of one.
i don't hunt, but i'm not anti-hunt either.
i'm pro rights...and i hate it when good peple, have to pay due to some sort of  "blanket solution " that doesn't solve anything.
i'll keep checking in, and posting on this thread.  my friends and husband have some good ideas, so i'll pass those ideas on here.

Thanks! We'd love to hear their opinions too! :)

And thank you for taking the time to offer your opinions as well.

Quote
so i'm pro gun, if the guns are owned and operated by the right people, for the right reasons.

I think that is the key to the whole problem right there. The question is HOW do we do it?



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Offline brokeplex

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Re: Is It Time For the US To Change Its Gun Laws?
« Reply #18 on: February 15, 2008, 11:05:14 am »
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=501206&in_page_id=1811

here is the link to the story about the heroic security guard that stopped a massacre in the Colorado Megachurch. I am afraid that this is the wave of the future, we will have to protect ourselves with armed guards and pack our own.

Offline forsythia12

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Re: Is It Time For the US To Change Its Gun Laws?
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2008, 02:24:00 pm »
well, in the town i'm currently living in, the weapon of choice is a HAMMER.  yes, a hammer.  domestic violence runs wild here, due to alcohol abuse and they choose a hammer because most of these individuals  have a criminal record, so they don't have guns.
so should we have stricter hammer laws?
should hammers be registered?
background checks be done at your local home depot before you can legally purchase a hammer?
obviously not because then EVERYONE would have to pay because some thugs decided to misuse their hammers...which is what is happening with guns now.
the point is, guns are not the problem....the lack of penalties is.  criminals are not punished anymore.
criminals are going to do what they're going to do whether they have access to a gun or not....afterall, they can use a hammer to get the job done if they wanted.
stiffer penalties is where we need to look.

and as far as packing our own guns....well, that's not the solution either.  i mean cops carry loaded guns ready to go everyday , and yet they get shot all the time.
criminals don't engage in fair 'draws' like the old west on the count of three.  they blow you away without warning, before you can defend yourself, and once they do, they face very soft and fluffy consequences...so where's the deterant?