Author Topic: Dumb and Dumber  (Read 6873 times)

injest

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Dumb and Dumber
« on: March 02, 2008, 04:47:22 pm »
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/14/books/14dumb.html?_r=1&ex=1203656400&en=c890bc759b2111be&ei=5070&emc=eta1&oref=slogin

This is an article about anti education bias in the US...


"Not only are citizens ignorant about essential scientific, civic and cultural knowledge, she said, but they also don’t think it matters.

She pointed to a 2006 National Geographic poll that found nearly half of 18- to 24-year-olds don’t think it is necessary or important to know where countries in the news are located. So more than three years into the Iraq war, only 23 percent of those with some college could locate Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Israel on a map"

"In part, she lays the blame on a failing educational system. “Although people are going to school more and more years, there’s no evidence that they know more,” she said.

Ms. Jacoby also blames religious fundamentalism’s antipathy toward science, as she grieves over surveys that show that nearly two-thirds of Americans want creationism to be taught along with evolution.

Ms. Jacoby doesn’t leave liberals out of her analysis, mentioning the New Left’s attacks on universities in the 1960s, the decision to consign African-American and women’s studies to an “academic ghetto” instead of integrating them into the core curriculum, ponderous musings on rock music and pop culture courses on everything from sitcoms to fat that trivialize college-level learning. "




Offline Artiste

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2008, 05:03:14 pm »
You are right, in some ways!

Or should I say : all?? !! Since at times, I think that too!!

There are many, many faults with the present educational system(s) and those who create it, including us all too as citizens need it!!

You want to know my experiences and views??

Hugs!! Keep care!! WE educate too on Bettermost, thank goodness!! And educate ourselves too!!

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #2 on: March 03, 2008, 12:25:33 am »
In many, if not most, American homes the value and importance of civics is not a lesson taught to children by their parents. The schools then make courageous efforts to take up the slack, but without a interest in learning, those lessons are memorized and soon forgotten. And regretably some of the teachers themselves do not seem to understand the basic workings of government or how elections are conducted in the US.

The amazing lack of knowledge among college graduates about the facts surrounding the workings and the history of the US Constitution astonishes me, and that says nothing about the same knowledge deficit concerning their state and local issues.

Some time ago, I had a friend, who ran political campaigns, starting out like me mostly as a volunteer. In time because of his expertise, he was selected as the Political Director of the Republican Party in my state. I tried to have lunch with him at least once per month, and I remember something he said to me about 20 years ago while we were at lunch. He was talking about a recent visit he had made to the Political Science Dept in our alma mater, and his meeting with some graduate students and faculty. He made the comment that his discussion with students and faculty made him realize that the theories taught at the gradate level in that University's Political Science Dept had absolutely no bearing or resemblance to the real world of elections and governance that we both knew. He then gave me examples that made me laugh out loud. The theories taught to those interested in the subject were so abstract that they were meaningless in the real world. I have thought of the those words many times over the years when I note the opinions of commentators on TV, radio, internet opining about elections and electoral strategies.

The subject of civics, like geography, or math, must be made interesting, challenging, and relevant in order to have an impact on children. But, most of all, parents must be convinced that these are subjects which are worthwhile to teach children. Unfortunately, it is fashionable to be loudly cynical about the validity or usefulness of understanding politics. I personally have never known ignorance to be a desirable condition, once upon a time, those who were "ignorant" were ashamed of their ignorance and sought to change their condition. Today many seem to wear their cynical ignorance on their chests like a badge.

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #3 on: March 03, 2008, 12:41:04 am »
yes and if you want to learn more as an adult, you meet two types of people...pseudointellectuals who sneer at you as being a dumb yokel or people that think you are being uppity....

 :-\

well you do meet some nice people that are patient and try to help. I am always so happy to meet them..

Adult education has always been one of the strengths of the American democracy. We simply can not have a functioning democracy without an informed electorate. I don't understand anyone who would sneer at an adult who wished to learn more about their world. I worked as a volunteer teaching reading some years back, and found it to be one of the rewarding times in my life as an adult.

Another point you raise is the anti-educational mindset of so many these days. Studies are showing that in many areas in the big cities children who wish to better themselves by learning are made fun of by their contemporaries. Somehow it has become the norm that learning is not only not useful but harmful. This is a recipe for disaster.

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #4 on: March 03, 2008, 12:57:44 am »
why do you sound so "conservative" to me tonight? are you voting in Tuesday's primary?

Marge_Innavera

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2008, 11:44:36 am »
so what I dont' understand with this show "Who's Smarter Than A 5th Grader" is why do the 5th graders know this stuff and the adults don't? I would assume that the adults knew this stuff when they were in the 5th grade but by the time they are college aged, all that knowledge seems to have disappeared...

I watch that show regularly, and some of the questions, my first reaction is often "OMG I learned that (X) years ago" but never had an occasion to use it.  I've just never had a need since high school days to figure out how many 'factors' any given number has.

But some of the ignorance of basic facts is mind-boggling, such as with one contestent who wasn't sure what ocean bordered the US west coast. Jeff Foxworthy is sometimes pretty blatant, and funny, in letting contestents know when they're in over their heads.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2008, 11:47:04 am »
Boy you made my day already!

Quote
me? vote?? in a primary???

no way! that is for losers...

*Jess runs out really fast...*
 
 
  
.......

You made me laugh, and laugh, and laugh... happily!

Love your sense of humolur, chère madame (dear lady)!!

.........

Concerning the suject of dumb and dumber, when I was at a meeting in Detroit City, a teacher told me that the system (education) does NOT want anymore kids to be educated! And he was not joking! He told me some rasons for that!

That was years ago... and I am still in shock!!!

Hugs!

Offline forsythia12

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2008, 02:01:09 pm »
I seem to remember hearing about a poll where people were asked what whether Barack Hussein Obama should be punished.  The overwhelming response was "Absolutely!".  Now, Obama may rhyme with Osama, but the similarites end there.  Funny, but not really!



yes, that's just one example of people not really knowing what they're talking about.
here's a video about people jumping on 'the bandwagon' without even knowing what they're really saying.



Offline delalluvia

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2008, 08:02:34 pm »
the article I referenced above is more than a little biased but the thought behind it I do agree with. There is a set of the community that no longer sees a need to grow up and become a contributing member of the community.

We are so obsessed with leisure we forget that we have to work first.....that nothing comes without a cost

Agree.

I am always so disappointed when I see or read or hear about these kind of polls.

Has anyone here on this board ever been polled? Stopped in the street or called and asked such questions?

I get so frustrated.  I know these things!  My friends know these things.  Not everyone is stupid.  But no one ever asks us.  I wonder how these poll takers choose the people they ask.  TV shows I'm not worried about.  They're rigged just like everything else.  They choose some people because they're smart and others because they can't chew gun and think at the same time.


Marge_Innavera

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2008, 10:19:06 am »
Has anyone here on this board ever been polled? Stopped in the street or called and asked such questions?

I get so frustrated.  I know these things!  My friends know these things.  Not everyone is stupid.  But no one ever asks us.  I wonder how these poll takers choose the people they ask.  TV shows I'm not worried about.  They're rigged just like everything else.  They choose some people because they're smart and others because they can't chew gun and think at the same time.

I often wonder how poll takers choose their subjects too.  At least one talk show host, Sean Hannity, regularly uses "polls," with questions such as "who is Vice President?" and "name three Supreme Court justices", but they're always aired to illustrate how dumb 'liberals' are, so what is actually aired on the show is more than a little, um, selective.

The only things I've ever been polled about were consumer products.

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2008, 12:34:34 pm »
I often wonder how poll takers choose their subjects too.  At least one talk show host, Sean Hannity, regularly uses "polls," with questions such as "who is Vice President?" and "name three Supreme Court justices", but they're always aired to illustrate how dumb 'liberals' are, so what is actually aired on the show is more than a little, um, selective.

The only things I've ever been polled about were consumer products.

There are numerous scientifiic polls and professional surveys that show regardless of party or ideology most Americans are not familiar with even the basics of how the political system actually works, and they also don't know who the major players are.

Speaking of Sean Hannity, just for laughs I watched one of his "person on the street interviews" with assorted crowds in NYC  - none of whom knew who Dick Cheney was. The answers they gave were really funny.

I was polled yesterday by a Texas exit polling group as I lwas leaving my precinct after voting. They asked me 9 questions.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2008, 07:08:49 pm »
Do you remember the 9 questions?

Where each dumb?

And they got dumber?

Or each OK?

Hugs!

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2008, 09:06:23 pm »
There are numerous scientifiic polls and professional surveys that show regardless of party or ideology most Americans are not familiar with even the basics of how the political system actually works, and they also don't know who the major players are.

Speaking of Sean Hannity, just for laughs I watched one of his "person on the street interviews" with assorted crowds in NYC  - none of whom knew who Dick Cheney was. The answers they gave were really funny.

I was polled yesterday by a Texas exit polling group as I lwas leaving my precinct after voting. They asked me 9 questions.

The only thing I was asked was about signing up for alternate electric company.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2008, 09:42:19 pm »
Dumb and Dumber!! That could be the fault too of some TV shows?? !!

Watching Two and a Half Men, I find that the child is a portrait of being dumb, lazy, etc., getting to be too fat eating junk food, and that concerns me... in nearly all the shows, way, way too many ; and, on the other hand to-night, finally he smartens up... starts to do so! What a surprise! It's about time?

What do you think?

Hugs!

Offline Artiste

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Re: Dumb and Dumber
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2008, 10:25:28 am »
Was BRAVO dumb or dumber by cutting the BM movie ?