Author Topic: Questions about the beginning of the story/film  (Read 5116 times)

Offline BlissC

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Questions about the beginning of the story/film
« on: March 13, 2008, 07:04:57 pm »
I've been thinking about this for a few days, but a question about where Jack and Ennis spent the night of the first night after they met at Aguirre's on another thread set me thinking about it again.

I guess my questions are in part because I'm from the UK and not familiar with the ways of the rural US, so please forgive me if the answers to these questions are blindingly obvious to those with knowledge of the era and the area.

At the very start of the film we see Ennis climbing down from a lorry he's presumably hitched a lift on. The SS says "That spring, hungry for any job, each had signed up with Farm and Ranch Employment..." (presumably this is an employment agency?), but what's always puzzled me is where they both would have been living. Neither the film or story give any clues. Jack has his own truck, but Ennis has no transport. All we know of Ennis is that he when his brother married there was no room for him any more. If they'd both been working on ranches would they have been living at the ranches? Would they have been renting somewhere? Jack has his truck - he may not have that much in the way of other possessions, but at least he has transport and therefore presumably some money, whereas we see Ennis arrive with just a paper bag. That, I must admit has always puzzled me a little as I guess it's meant to show he didn't have much in the way of possessions, but we don't see him wearing the same clothes throughout the summer - he must have had more than one shirt, and I seem to recall a couple of different coats in the film, so where had he got them stashed?

Similarly with the end of the summer when they came down from Brokeback - where would they have gone to? Jack mentions before they leave the mountain lending Ennis some money until they get to Signal (was Aguirre's place at Signal?) but apart from saying that he may go to his parents over the winter, Jack says no more about where he's headed to, and Ennis says he's marrying Alma, so presumably he goes back to Riverton, but where would he be living?

And then of course, back to the original question - after they'd met Aguirre and spent the afternoon drinking in a bar, where would they have spent the night?

Anyone got any ideas?


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Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Questions about the beginning of the story/film
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2008, 01:43:03 pm »
Thanks for asking, these are good questions! A deleted scene from the movie showed Jack and Ennis sleeping in Jack's truck, altho Ennis was just sitting in the passenger seat awake. It's hard to say where Ennis came from before he arrived at Signal. He probably came from the Worland area where he was working on a ranch or maybe from Casper where he might have been visiting his sister. Jack came from Lightning Flat where he was visiting home after being on the rodeo circuit. "Signal" was located in the north central part of Wyoming so the two men came from opposite directions to be there. Neither one of them had a home of their own. Ranch "stiffs" usually stayed at a bunkhouse on the ranches where they worked.

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Offline BlissC

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Re: Questions about the beginning of the story/film
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2008, 03:59:38 pm »
A deleted scene from the movie showed Jack and Ennis sleeping in Jack's truck, altho Ennis was just sitting in the passenger seat awake.

Ah! That's interesting. I wonder why it got deleted? Maybe because it wasn't in the original story?

Quote
It's hard to say where Ennis came from before he arrived at Signal. He probably came from the Worland area where he was working on a ranch or maybe from Casper where he might have been visiting his sister. Jack came from Lightning Flat where he was visiting home after being on the rodeo circuit. "Signal" was located in the north central part of Wyoming so the two men came from opposite directions to be there. Neither one of them had a home of their own. Ranch "stiffs" usually stayed at a bunkhouse on the ranches where they worked.

I remember now the story saying they were from "opposite corners of the state". Staying at the ranches where they worked makes sense too. I'm just wondering though, where would they stay if they didn't have a job? Was it easy to come by work at that time in the area?


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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Questions about the beginning of the story/film
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2008, 04:07:27 pm »
Am I correct in thinking that the door of the semi-truck says "Sage" on it?  I mean that might just be a clever, subtle way of referencing Ennis's origins and not necessarily a clue about exactly where he's coming from at this precise moment.  I tend to agree that Ennis is probably either coming from his sister's or his brother's house.

Jack in a way is sort of trickier... To me, it depends on when or if we believe OMT "ran him off."  So, he's either coming from Lightning Flat... or some totally unspecified location.


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Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Questions about the beginning of the story/film
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2008, 04:55:51 pm »
Am I correct in thinking that the door of the semi-truck says "Sage" on it? 


No. I remember we've discussed this before. No proper screencap of the open truck door to be found anywhere (at least I couldn't find one). But I've checked the DVD, played it in slow motion and paused to have a close look at the door of the truck. The first two letters are S and A, but the third is not a G. I'm positive about this.

My personal guess would be Ennis came directly from Worland, where he had worked with his brother. That's how he tells his story (paraphrasing from memory): ... ranch in Worland., Brother married. No more room for me (gawd, I could strangle his brother when Ennis says this  >:(). That's how come me end up here.

And Jack? My feeling is that he came directly from LF. I think the rodeos he had participated previously had been local events around his area. I don't believe he had lived "on the circuit" at this point. But of course everybody elses guess is as good as mine.

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Questions about the beginning of the story/film
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2008, 08:16:00 pm »
in the ss, they both had trucks. so I guess they slept in their own trucks. in the film only Jack had transport so I guess it is safe to assume that Jack slept in his truck, where Ennis slept is a good question. I like the idea of him seeking shelter in Jacks' truck. those rocky mountain nights get cold.

in either case both men journeyed a long way to reach Signal. regardless of "what city you think Signal really is " hunh Front Ranger;D

in either case they were both too far from their homes in either Worland or Lightening Flat to have driven back or hitchhiked conveniently and then returned to Signal for the next morning.

personally, from a trivia standpoint, I saw this as a weakness in the film. I wish the deleted scene was returned. Better yet, I wish Focus Features would release a new DVD with Special Features such as deleted scenes and a director's and screenwriters commentary.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Questions about the beginning of the story/film
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2008, 08:33:19 pm »
LOL!  OK, so I came home from work this evening with an obsessive urge to figure out more about what's on the side of that semi-truck at the beginning.  I honestly always was just assuming it said "Sage."  So, upon viewing (and rewinding a few times) it most definitely says S-A-  and then there is clearly a third letter that could either be a "G" or a "C" and then there is a 4th letter visible... that looks most like a portion of a capitalized "A"... but with the horizontal bar in the middle of both "E" and "A" there's a visual similarity there.  So, definitely, this word is not as clear-cut as I thought it was.  But, it's not impossible that it could potentially say Sage.  Really, I always just assumed that's what it said... but I'm bringing my "outside" knowledge of Ennis into this interpretation clearly.

If that truck doesn't say Sage... It's interesting to realize that a film-viewer-only would have no way of knowing that Ennis was from Sage.  That aspect of the diagonal, geographic difference between Ennis and Jack in terms of where they were raised would be lost on a film viewer who had never read the story.  And, even if the truck said Sage, there'd be no real guarantee that that fact about Ennis would be conveyed.

My plan was to watch only the beginning to look for this detail.  But, of course that's really an impossible thing for a Brokie.  So, I just watched the first half of the movie... through to the end of the "prayer of thanks" camping moment.  I couldn't bring myself to watch the whole film tonight.  When I think about it, I think I've probably seen the first half of BBM about twice as many times as I've seen the second half. 
 ::) ;D
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Offline brokeplex

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Re: Questions about the beginning of the story/film
« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2008, 08:37:02 pm »
 I have always thought it said "SAC", but it is a great idea if there is a "g" and an "e" there. another subliminal reminder of a geographic place of importance to the boys.

Offline Mandy21

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Re: Questions about the beginning of the story/film
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2008, 08:55:29 pm »
Me too, Amanda.  The first half twice as many times as the second.  Wonder why that is...
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Offline BlissC

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Re: Questions about the beginning of the story/film
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2008, 09:06:19 pm »
Same here, and I'm going to wear the pause button on the remote out at this rate!  ;D


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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Questions about the beginning of the story/film
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2008, 09:19:14 pm »

The more I think about it... it's pretty interesting to ponder the situation that Lightning Flat is given a lot of prominence in the film.  There's no question as to where Jack is from.  But, explicit references to Sage are erased.  It's an interesting imbalance.

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Offline Mandy21

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Re: Questions about the beginning of the story/film
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2008, 09:37:47 pm »
Well, Amanda, my interpretation of that imbalance is that we, the viewer, are shown that Jack is obviously the more demonstrative half of the relationship.  He's kind of all over the place, isn't he, laying out his plume feathers, so to speak?  Perhaps we need some stability, some set background, to place him against, so that we can keep track.  I think we're almost hoping that he grew up in an incredibly predictable, boring world.  Which would explain clearly his gigantic need for excitement as sustenance.  Ennis, on the other hand, plays his part so quietly, pragmatically, we really don't need to know where he's from.  It's written all over him, by the way he turned out.  Quiet, scared, lost, empty, searching, needing...  I can see quite clearly without having to know the names of the towns, where these two boys came from.
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Offline BlissC

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Re: Questions about the beginning of the story/film
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2008, 07:35:21 am »
Well, Amanda, my interpretation of that imbalance is that we, the viewer, are shown that Jack is obviously the more demonstrative half of the relationship.  He's kind of all over the place, isn't he, laying out his plume feathers, so to speak?  Perhaps we need some stability, some set background, to place him against, so that we can keep track.  I think we're almost hoping that he grew up in an incredibly predictable, boring world.  Which would explain clearly his gigantic need for excitement as sustenance.

That's an interesting interpretation - I'd not thought about it like that before. I guess with him working all over Wyoming, on the rodeo circuit, and eventually moving to Texas he does kind of need a "base" that ties the different strands of his life together, and I think you're right, the desolation of Lightening Flat probably does explain a lot about his need for excitement. Annie describes him as "crazy to be somewhere, anywhere else than Lightening Flat".

Quote
Ennis, on the other hand, plays his part so quietly, pragmatically, we really don't need to know where he's from.  It's written all over him, by the way he turned out.  Quiet, scared, lost, empty, searching, needing...

Again, spot on. Annie says, right near the start of the story that they were both products of where they grew up, or words to that effect.

I've just realised as well, looking at the prologue to the story, that though obviously the prologue's right at the end of the story chronologically, it does say that the ranch where Ennis is working is being sold off and he might have to go and stay with his married daughter (presumably Alma Jnr) until he finds more work, which I guess in a way answers my original question about where they'd be living if they weren't working. Funny how you miss those little details unless you're looking closely.


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