What do you think of homeschooling?

[Penthesilea]

What do you think of homeschooling?


In my country, homeschooling is illegal. Every child from age six to 18 has to attent either a public school or a private school (which are licensed and overseen by public authorities). Private schools are - in comparison to the US and UK - rare.
Of course, everybody is entitled to teach their children additionally to school as much and whatever they want. But every child has to go to school with other children.

When I speak of homeschooling on this thread, I do not mean children of kindergarten age (roughly around 3-7, depending how the school laws are in the different countries), but of children from, let's say, 7 or maybe 8 years on.

In the poll, you can select up to two options and change your vote afterwards.
If you want a voting option to be added, just ask.

[Clyde-B]

OOO!  OOO!  I'm the first to vote!

I'm concerned about the quality of the education kids get.  What subjects do they get taught and what is the quality of that teaching?  I learned some pretty strange things at the hands of my parents.  I haven't a clue what my education would have been like if they had been in charge of it.

If the parents are knowledable and qualified, I suppose it's OK, as long as the kids get socialized in some way also.

[souxi]

Well after the recent hassles I,ve had with my son and school, I was seriously considering home schooling. However I had some really good news today. My son has been offered a place at another school nearby so I,m really pleased, because at the end of the day, I think that the best place for a child to be educated is school. They do know what they are doing and the child gets to meet new people and make new friends. Home schooling should really be a last resort if you have tried everything else and got no where. I don,t think it should be seen as an "easy option" because it isn,t. I know most kids would rather stay at home with mum, but they,d soon get bored as I know my son has. It,s good for them to go to school and meet new people and make some new friends. 

[optom3]

Having 3 children age 9,11 and 14 this is of interest to me.I personally would not home school.I do not consider myself either patient enough,or gifted at teaching.I do think parents should have a choice,within strict paramaters though.
I have experienced both the U.K and U.S.A education system,private and public ,
and with all their are faults.However I still feel the education gained by my 3 from school,will be far superior to anything I could provide.
That said I have been very lucky in having my younger two,placed in a gifted school here,which even better is free.My oldest son is about to start high school and I will reserve judgement on that one,till I have more experience.He has always been a problem,whether in the U.K or here,paid for or free.
So reluctantly, I have resigned myself to the fact,that high school will be equally problematic.

[brokeplex]

given the sorry state of public schools in the US, I see it as an important option for parents. there should be a tax deduction at the local school district level for those parents who chose the homeschooling option.

[Artiste]

Good idea, but there are buts too ??

[David In Indy]

Back when I was in school - 1968 - 1980, we never talked about home schooling. If it existed it was never discussed. I never heard about it until years later, long after I had graduated high school.

Personally, I think I would have loved the idea of home schooling. I had a very rough time in school. I got beat up a lot, picked on, made fun of, etc. Fortunately I had a few "bodyguards" though. I was friends with some of the guys on the football team, wrestling team and other athletes (it helped that the most popular guy in school was also in the orchestra) and many of those guys were fiercely protective of me. BUT, when they weren't around, the bullies would approach me, do things to me and say something like "if you tell them I said this or did that to you, it will be twice as bad for you the next time" so I never said anything. I don't know. It was weird. I would have probably cut off my right arm to go to school at home. I suppose it probably is the same way with other kids now who experience what I did back in grade school and high school.

What are the requirements for teaching your children at home? I mean, does one need to be a licensed teacher? This is the only part that concerns me. What kind of education are kids getting at home? If it is a good, healthy and rounded education then I think it's a good idea if both the parents and the children wish it.

[Shasta542]

In AR the parent doesn't have to be licensed. I've known of kids who use the computer system whose parents aren't even at home during the day. (I don't think that's good in most cases.) Students have to be tested the same as any others. And I'm not sure about the details, but I'd guess there is a standard that must be reached on the tests in order for the home-schooling to continue.

Some kids come to school from home-schooling ahead of the others; some are behind.

I don't think there was home-schooling when I was in school either, David. (61-73) If so, I was unaware.

[David In Indy]

In AR the parent doesn't have to be licensed. I've known of kids who use the computer system whose parents aren't even at home during the day. (I don't think that's good in most cases.) Students have to be tested the same as any others. And I'm not sure about the details, but I'd guess there is a standard that must be reached on the tests in order for the home-schooling to continue.

Some kids come to school from home-schooling ahead of the others; some are behind.

I don't think there was home-schooling when I was in school either, David. (61-73) If so, I was unaware.

Thank you Shasta. Since you are a teacher I take your opinion quite seriously. I'm pleased to learn there are at least SOME controls in place. And I suppose there are many different reasons why the parents (and the kids) would perfer homeschooling. But like I said, this is something quite new to me. The world is changing and the educational system too maybe.

I would have LOVED homeschooling as a child. School can be insufferable for some kids. But it didn't exist back then to my knowledge.

[Shasta542]

Thank you Shasta. Since you are a teacher I take your opinion quite seriously. I'm pleased to learn there are at least SOME controls in place. And I suppose there are many different reasons why the parents (and the kids) would perfer homeschooling. But like I said, this is something quite new to me. The world is changing and the educational system too maybe.

I would have LOVED homeschooling as a child. School can be insufferable for some kids. But it didn't exist back then to my knowledge.

Bullies are really the bane of any school. They know how to intimidate kids and they do it out of earshot/vision of others. There is a bully at my school and I have turned him in twice. Others have turned him in a couple of times, too. He has had just about every punishment and the next is isolation school--where he has to do all of his work and everything alone--being monitored by a special teacher. Bathroom breaks, lunch, etc.--all done while other kids are in class. He does not want that, so he has calmed down quite a bit. Thank goodness. He has mainly been mean to kids younger than he--naturally.

Yes--you would have probably benefited from home-schooling if it had been available, David. But I'm sure you learned some coping mechanisms that helped you in your adult life at least. One--you learned that good friends--like the football boys--can be nice to have! I was bullied a little, but--like you--I didn't react enough. They left me alone mostly. Plus--strength in numbers, so friends helped friends. I pulled a bully girl off a smaller friend in the dressing room--she had her down, hitting her head against the floor. I guess bullies have been around since time began, huh?

[Artiste]

Shasta, since you are a teacher, do you need to be a qualified teacher to home school your own kids in your state ?

[Kerry]

Like David, I too was brutalised by the bullies at school. Unlike David, however, I didn't have any avenging jocks at my school, to protect me. I'd like to think I wasn't necessarily an overtly effeminate child, but I was certainly gentle, delicate and artistic. For that reason, I was literally kicked around the school yard at every opportunity, sometimes within sight of teachers, who I remember turning away and pretending not to see what was happening (it was a long time ago).

Home schooling was unheard of when I was a child. If it had been available, I would have pleaded with my parents to home school me. Alas, however, it would have been to no avail, because neither of my parents would have had the qualifications to teach me.

[Jeff Wrangler]

Well, I don't see any option that really matches my opinion, so I'm not voting per se. And I feel, of course, I have to issue the caveat that I'm not raising children in a location with poor public schools.

Having said that, in general I'm against homeschooling because I believe going to school has an important role in socializing children to deal with the world outside the safety of the home. They have to learn to share the world with people of very different backgrounds and very different opinions than their parents. And I guess being away from home and parents all day in school probably helps in separating from the parents and developing an independent identity.

Of course these opinions were shaped by my own public school experience many years ago. While I received a good education, especially in language and literature, it wasn't a bed of rose petals even then.

[Clyde-B]

Does anybody understand why teachers look the other way as people get bullied?  Especially when the kids are little.  How are we doing the bullies any good if we let them believe these tactics work beyond the few years they are on the playground?  Shouldn't we start teaching them other options as early as possible?  Especially since Columbine and other school murders seem to be the revenge of the bullied.  We could nip two problems early.  And if we are truly going to socialize kids, then let's do it and not just talk about it.

[Marge_Innavera]

IMO homeschooling is sometimes the best choice, for reasons such as geography and the child's mental and physical health.

However, I worked for 7 years at a museum where we did formal school tours as a big part of the museum's income, and these tours included small groups of homeschoolers as well as homeschool groups just visiting on an informal basis. I saw somewhere around 10,000 schoolkids a year and probably more homeschoolers than parents of homeschoolers see.  And one thing that we all noticed was that overall, the homeschooled children were the worst behaved and had the least socialization.  The problems that repeated themselves most often involved children who couldn't stand not being the center of attention every minute and children as old as 8 or 9 who were suspicious and fearful of adults outside their families and kids whom you'd describe as "13 going on 7."

I'm not saying it's impossible to homeschool successfully but IMO parents consistently underestimate the impact of not having the kind of day-in-day-out socialization you get in even the most restrictive private or religious school. So I voted to keep it legal but have problems with it.

[Jeff Wrangler]

However, I worked for 7 years at a museum where we did formal school tours as a big part of the museum's income, and these tours included small groups of homeschoolers as well as homeschool groups just visiting on an informal basis. I saw somewhere around 10,000 schoolkids a year and probably more homeschoolers than parents of homeschoolers see.  And one thing that we all noticed was that overall, the homeschooled children were the worst behaved and had the least socialization.  The problems that repeated themselves most often involved children who couldn't stand not being the center of attention every minute and children as old as 8 or 9 who were suspicious and fearful of adults outside their families and kids whom you'd describe as "13 going on 7."

Thanks for that insight, Marge. You've demonstrated from experience what I only suspected.

Does anybody understand why teachers look the other way as people get bullied?  Especially when the kids are little.  How are we doing the bullies any good if we let them believe these tactics work beyond the few years they are on the playground?  Shouldn't we start teaching them other options as early as possible?  Especially since Columbine and other school murders seem to be the revenge of the bullied.  We could nip two problems early.  And if we are truly going to socialize kids, then let's do it and not just talk about it.

That's a good point, too, Clyde, and one about which I should ask a friend who teaches first grade. I can understand a reluctance in the upper or high school grades. A year or so ago we had a teacher here in Philadelphia who had to retire because he was badly hurt when a kid who was bigger than he was threw him against a wall. As for the primary grades, I'd be interested on some input into how teachers may be circumscribed in what they can and cannot do.

[serious crayons]

I believe homeschooling should be an option, and I can understand why some parents choose it.

I have often been dismayed by the negative things I've seen my kids absorb from their peers in school: the commercialism, materialism, homophobia, shallow celebrity culture, disrespect for authority, etc. Not that my sons are innocent little angels corrupted by the other kids -- heck, they probably exert it on the other kids at least as much as the other way around -- just that those are elements in the society we live in that run rampant in schools and that I wish I could shield them from.

But I can't. I'm not sure I even want to, because they have to live in that society eventually, anyway, and I'm not sure they can fully deal with it if they haven't any first-hand experience with it. And while I have often been dismayed at the negative aspects of their peer interaction, I think it has at least as many -- well, more, actually -- positive effects.

And I wouldn't have homeschooled my kids in a million years. We would not all have made it through alive. My sons are academically gifted and I have often been disappointed in their schools' abilities to nurture those skills, but on a full-time basis I don't think I could have done it well myself. Without the teaching skills, and without the example of other, more obedient kids, it would have been really, really hard.

But if my kids were bullied, or if I wanted to try to take on the monumental task of raising a child who does not subscribe to cultural values I
oppose, I'd like to have it as an option.

[Clyde-B]

I believe homeschooling should be an option, and I can understand why some parents choose it.

I have often been dismayed by the negative things I've seen my kids absorb from their peers in school: the commercialism, materialism, homophobia, shallow celebrity culture, disrespect for authority, etc. Not that my sons are innocent little angels corrupted by the other kids -- heck, they probably exert it on the other kids at least as much as the other way around -- just that those are elements in the society we live in that run rampant in schools and that I wish I could shield them from.

But I can't. I'm not sure I even want to, because they have to live in that society eventually, anyway, and I'm not sure they can fully deal with it if they haven't any first-hand experience with it. And while I have often been dismayed at the negative aspects of their peer interaction, I think it has at least as many -- well, more, actually -- positive effects.

And I wouldn't have homeschooled my kids in a million years. We would not all have made it through alive. My sons are academically gifted and I have often been disappointed in their schools' abilities to nurture those skills, but on a full-time basis I don't think I could have done it well myself. Without the teaching skills, and without the example of other, more obedient kids, it would have been really, really hard.

But if my kids were bullied, or if I wanted to try to take on the monumental task of raising a child who does not subscribe to cultural values I
oppose, I'd like to have it as an option.

How do homeschooled kids learn to think for themselves?  Running into those negative aspects and discussing them back and forth with parents would seem to me to be good training for evaluating opinions different from their own.  I wonder if home schooled kids wind up with similar attitudes to their parents and how they deal with it the first time somebody says, "You're full of shit!"

[serious crayons]

How do homeschooled kids learn to think for themselves?  Running into those negative aspects and discussing them back and forth with parents would seem to me to be good training for evaluating opinions different from their own.  I wonder if home schooled kids wind up with similar attitudes to their parents and how they deal with it the first time somebody says, "You're full of shit!"

I don't know. I know when I try to impart my own values to my kids, they often respond with "You're full of shit!" Not in those exact words, but still.

[Jeff Wrangler]

I don't know. I know when I try to impart my own values to my kids, they often respond with "You're full of shit!" Not in those exact words, but still.

Fresh kids. ... 

[Artiste]

Sometime, there is no choice but to homeschool ?

[delalluvia]

What siouxi and sunshadow said. 

I think it should be an alternative, but there should be strict controls in place.  The parent who is to teach needs to be certified to teach.  Why would a parent take a child out of schools, so as to give their child a better alternative, but then not want to be the best sort of teacher for them?  The parent should file with their local school the yearly lesson plans and the child should be expected to take the national tests along with the other children to make sure the parent is keeping up with what their child should be learning and perhaps the child should join the children of their own age group at the local school for playground time, especially when they're young so as to be socialized.  There are many reasons children are homeschooled.

Yes, children pick up bad habits from their peers, but they also pick up coping skills that can't be learned anywhere else.  The world is not Disneyland and a child learns how to deal with strangers in their age group, make friends, learn who they are no other way than to interact with them.

[ednbarby]

What siouxi and sunshadow said. 

I think it should be an alternative, but there should be strict controls in place.  The parent who is to teach needs to be certified to teach.  Why would a parent take a child out of schools, so as to give their child a better alternative, but then not want to be the best sort of teacher for them?  The parent should file with their local school the yearly lesson plans and the child should be expected to take the national tests along with the other children to make sure the parent is keeping up with what their child should be learning and perhaps the child should join the children of their own age group at the local school for playground time, especially when they're young so as to be socialized.  There are many reasons children are homeschooled.

Yes, children pick up bad habits from their peers, but they also pick up coping skills that can't be learned anywhere else.  The world is not Disneyland and a child learns how to deal with strangers in their age group, make friends, learn who they are no other way than to interact with them.

What she said.

I'll admit, however, that I come at it with a biased point of view.  My home life as a child was hell.  My Mom drank herself into oblivion and was in the bag by about 2:00 p.m. every day by the time I was six.  School was a sanctuary.  It was the only place where adults paid any attention to me.  I also got bullied, made fun of because I wore my brothers' hand-me-downs, and ostracized.  But the adult attention I craved far outweighed the rest.

If you're a fully-functional adult who is also accredited in teaching and truly feels you can do it better than your child's school for whatever reason, I say power to you.  But if you're *only* doing it in an attempt to shelter your child from something beyond your control, while I feel for you, I think you're not doing your child any favors in the long run.

[Artiste]

With drug pushers beating up on students who refuse to take dope, no wonder parents think of home schooling ! Right ?

[David In Indy]

With drug pushers beating up on students who refuse to take dope, no wonder parents think of home schooling ! Right ?

I'm sure that is part of the reason why some parents decide to home school. Schools are MUCH more dangerous these days than they were when I was going to them. The idea of a student packing a gun into school and shooting students and teachers was unthinkable in my day. It never crossed my mind. Never! I doubt others considered it either.

No, back when I was in school if we wished to seek revenge on the teacher we'd plant something in her desk drawer, like a frog. OR, I remember one teacher I had, Miss Swisher. She was in her 80s, or at least she looked like she was in her 80s. She was a very frail little old woman. She taught high school English (sorry Shasta for what I'm about to say) and she wasn't too popular with the students. She was very strict! And she spoke impeccable English, something I admire now, but back then most of us found it annoying. Also her handwriting was so shaky we could barely read it. So..... (What I'm about to tell you I DID NOT DO! But I knew about it when it happened) somebody took some pot seeds and stuck them down in the dirt of the potted plants she had up on the windowsill. And they started growing! Every day she'd walk over there and water her marijuana plants. She had absolutely no idea what they were. I feel really bad now that I didn't say anything to her about it, but it was as funny as hell back then in 1978.

That's how we got revenge on teachers. And although it was very bad and very wrong, none of us considered actually killing our teacher, or our fellow students.

[Artiste]

Merci David !

You are right, that in the past, that there were no such  killings in our schools !

Now, there are unfortunetely more and more such violence !

In Quebec, someone adopted an youth from Africa and brought him to Quebec, but there at Montreal he murdered 16 women students at a technical college, because he was a muslim as a radical who do not accept educated ladies ! And lately, there was a similar terror, from foreign born who killed many in another college - and again, that murderer simply do not wanted to accept our freedom in our culture of North America !
There are many cases like that where religion do not accept a person being free, such as women and gays are to-day in our democratic countries such as in the USA, Canada, England, France, and elsewhere ! It is very disturbing to find that such persons do not consider the freedom of others but only of themselves and their religions who enslaves others !! Plus, there are now too those in our countries who take drugs, lack social skills, etc., who murder fellow students and many teachers, because of varied so-called reasons, since their brains are now lacking free culture !

The last time  I went ot a school where I had an interview, I was shocked to find that all its doors were locked and I learn from the Principal/Director that there was a need to lock, since strangers enter it hurt students and teachers !

So, home schooling can now be considered in order to protect one'S CHILD AND EVEN THE TEACHER ??

Au revoir,
hugs!

[Artiste]

Maybe home schooling for my children would be the only solution in order to protect them since I am a gay man?

After going to see my lawyer this afternoon, I learned:
        Since I am gay man, new   neigbours lie: tells my lawyer I have communicable disease                   

[Ellemeno]

I just discovered this thread!

We are a homeschooling family, actively involved in a lively, fun, academically exhilarating homeschool group.  My child loves to learn, is ahead of her peers in some ways (especially verbally, quelle surprise), kinda average in other ways, and not quite where she'll be soon in other ways (mostly math-related stuff).  but even in the not quite there yet ways, she's in the normal range.

We love homeschooling.  The main thing I need to make sure of is that I get breaks, so that I don't get overwhelmed and burn out.  But she gets lots of academic exposure and practice, lots of "socialization," and lots of attention to her own needs.  It's a good fit for us. 

We're in a science club and a new and emergent readers club.  With other homeschoolers, we participate in craft day, game day, building day, museums, plays, concerts, parks.  She takes a gymnastics class, goes to a Waldorf play group twice a week (those are my breaks), is playing violin with Mr. Meno, and still has plenty of time to draw, play with her dollhouse, do spontaneous living room dancing and singing shows, and Skype with Grandma. 

It's really great.

[Brown Eyes]

We love homeschooling.  The main thing I need to make sure of is that I get breaks, so that I don't get overwhelmed and burn out.  But she gets lots of academic exposure and practice, lots of "socialization," and lots of attention to her own needs.  It's a good fit for us. 

Heya Elle!

I'm really glad it's working out so well for you and Mini-meno.

This kind of decision is clearly so personal and probably different for every family and child.

I'm responding here to what you said about needing breaks sometimes and the issue of socialization.  Because it strikes me as a big issue for an only child (maybe particularly).  I'm an only child and I went to public elementary school and junior high and high school.  I don't think the idea of homeschooling ever crossed my parents' minds.  Although, they were both very involved in my education and helped me deal with homework, etc.  My Mom was a "room Mom" a lot during elementary school (meaning she volunteered a lot in the classroom... especially for big events like class parties, etc.) and they were both on PTA committees, etc.. 

As an only child, as much as I love and adore my parents, there were times when I needed a break from my parents as much as they needed a break from me, I'm sure.  With school as a factor, having some independent time (away from parents) was built-in to a certain degree.  One of my very good friends has this phrase that I love -  "Too much togetherness" - which I always take to imply a situation where two people or a group of people love being together, but after too, too much time together start to either get on each others' nerves or simply need some time apart to refresh.  Between parents and an only child, speaking from experience, I think it can be an issue.

It's interesting though, throughout my growing up years I loved hanging out with my parents and their friends (when they would have dinner parties, etc.).  I think I learned how to socialize with adults really early.

[Ellemeno]

Heya Elle!

I'm really glad it's working out so well for you and Mini-meno.

This kind of decision is clearly so personal and probably different for every family and child.

I'm responding here to what you said about needing breaks sometimes and the issue of socialization.  Because it strikes me as a big issue for an only child (maybe particularly).  I'm an only child and I went to public elementary school and junior high and high school.  I don't think the idea of homeschooling ever crossed my parents' minds.  Although, they were both very involved in my education and helped me deal with homework, etc.  My Mom was a "room Mom" a lot during elementary school (meaning she volunteered a lot in the classroom... especially for big events like class parties, etc.) and they were both on PTA committees, etc.. 

As an only child, as much as I love and adore my parents, there were times when I needed a break from my parents as much as they needed a break from me, I'm sure.  With school as a factor, having some independent time (away from parents) was built-in to a certain degree.  One of my very good friends has this phrase that I love -  "Too much togetherness" - which I always take to imply a situation where two people or a group of people love being together, but after too, too much time together start to either get on each others' nerves or simply need some time apart to refresh.  Between parents and an only child, speaking from experience, I think it can be an issue.

It's interesting though, throughout my growing up years I loved hanging out with my parents and their friends (when they would have dinner parties, etc.).  I think I learned how to socialize with adults really early.

I can easily agree with all of this, A.  Homeschooling does not have to mean being in each other's pocket all the time.  She is 5 1/2 now though.  A good age to be spending a lot of time with one's family.  We have various breaks from each other arranged for nearly every day of the week, ranging from 2 to 6 hours.  At the moment, it's a good balance.  And I listen to her, and try to arrange the visits to friends she wants, with me, or solo, depending on the situation.

I always think that "homeschooling" is a misnomer.  A lot of homeschooling families are so active that home is not where they are much of the time.  But it's so nice to be able to be home together as much as we want, not separated into separate institutions for the best part of our waking hours 5 days a week.  It's a very privileged life really.

[serious crayons]

But it's so nice to be able to be home together as much as we want, not separated into separate institutions for the best part of our waking hours 5 days a week. 

Your homeschooling life sounds very idyllic and nice. I think a lot must depend on the particular kid and the particular parents. With my kids, if we did not spend a lot of our time in separate institutions, we would wind up in separate institutions. 

[ifyoucantfixit]

     Serious Crayons.........


       if we did not spend a lot of our time in separate institutions, we would wind up in separate institutions.


  Boy do I hear that.  I have seen that the case more than not.

[Kelda]

We are a homeschooling family, actively involved in a lively, fun, academically exhilarating homeschool group. 

We're in a science club and a new and emergent readers club.  With other homeschoolers, we participate in craft day, game day, building day, museums, plays, concerts, parks.  She takes a gymnastics class, goes to a Waldorf play group twice a week (those are my breaks), is playing violin with Mr. Meno, and still has plenty of time to draw, play with her dollhouse, do spontaneous living room dancing and singing shows, and Skype with Grandma. 

Elle,

I hope you don't mind me asking but I wondered how the home-schooling grouping works?

Do the parents take it in turns to take the smaller group of kids for certain subjects or times of the week or what? Or is the groupings mainly for the group actiities as you mentioned? And this makes up a smaller percentage of the 'school week'?

[Ellemeno]

Your homeschooling life sounds very idyllic and nice. I think a lot must depend on the particular kid and the particular parents. With my kids, if we did not spend a lot of our time in separate institutions, we would wind up in separate institutions. 

Well again, remember - she's 5 1/2.  I'm sure we will be separate more often as she gets older. 

[Ellemeno]

Elle,

I hope you don't mind me asking but I wondered how the home-schooling grouping works?

Kelda, ask anything. 

Again - she's 5 1/2, so what it looks like now I'm sure is different than how it will look when she's older.

Do the parents take it in turns to take the smaller group of kids for certain subjects or times of the week or what?

We're not doing this yet, but I know it's pretty common for the older kids we know.  I carefully pay attention to what I see people doing with older kids and mentally file a lot of ideas away.  I think very soon, MiniMeno will be ready to do small group projects, and I have happy visions of experiences that look very school-like, but with 3 to 10 kids participating.

Or is the groupings mainly for the group actiities as you mentioned? And this makes up a smaller percentage of the 'school week'?

Maybe I'll describe our current weekly schedule.

Monday - she goes to the Waldorf play school.  I get as much housework and errands and goofing off done as possible.

Tuesday - free time in the morning, homeschool park day in the afternoon.  In the morning we stay home, and usually it's unpredictable, but amazing what we wind up doing.  Projects, reading, lots of pretend.  Usually just her and me, because she just had a big social day all day the day before, and we're about to have a big social afternoon.  Every Tuesday afternoon, kids and families of all ages play at a certain park.  The moms yak with each other, the kids run, play in the sandbox, climb, explore.  I envy moms of the older kids, because they actually sit and chat.  My child is too young for that, so usually the mom(s) of the kid(s) she's playing with at any given time and I talk as we stroll along at a respectful distance from our kids, keeping an eye on them.  One of the beauties of park day is seeing the mix of ages playing mostly beautifully together.  There is a lot of respect between these very articulate and compassionate kids.

Wednesday - mornings vary by the week.  One Wednesday a month is game day.  A friend of ours with a big house hosts this, and each month different games are highlighted.  The age range there is usually 2 to 7 years old.  We stay for a few hours, and have a potluck lunch together.  I imagine that as the kids get older, parents may leave, but so far we all stay.  Partly because we, the parents, are having a great time too.  Other Wednesday mornings we go to the library, either just us, or meet friends, sometimes spending 2 or 3 hours there, reading tons of books, playing with the puppet theater or other things the various libraries have, including, sometimes, computer games.  Early afternoon is her gymnastics class, and I usually leave and either go across one street and have coffee and free wifi, or across the other street and have Chinese lunch and a book.  Wednesday late afternoon, she goes for two hours to the home of a friend of mine who has a 12 year old girl she adores.  She is her "junior babysitter."  MiniMeno is her first child to babysit, and her mother is right there.  I worked with her mother and know she is a wonderful person.  I pay $5/hour for this, so it works out for all of us.

Thursday - Waldorf school. 

Friday - Morning depends on the week.  One week of the month is science club, the others are reading club, building day (blocks, legos, Tinker Toys, and modern versions there of), craft day.  Again, for now, at this age, the parents all stay.  Parents take turns organizing the topics for science and craft.  For reading club, the kids bring whatever they want to read to the group.  Some kids are actually reading chapter books, others don't read at all, but show the pictures.  MiniMeno is partial to making up phrases with magnetic words on a metal board and then bringing her sentence to the group and reading it.  Other kids make a book of a few pages with drawings and short stories that either they or their parents write the words of, and read or just point to the pictures.  The age range of participants is about 4 to 7.  Friday afternoon is free, and we sometimes go on an adventure just the two of us, or with friends, to a museum, or a store, or the zoo, or stay home and watch a movie, or read.  Whatever we feel like doing.  Sometimes we go pick up Mr. Meno from work and go out to dinner.

Saturday and Sunday - like anyone's weekend.  A mix of at home time, having friends over, going to the park, seeing family.  Every two or three weeks, Mr. and Mini drive an hour away to go see the grandparents, and are gone most of the day.  That day I usually goof off totally, loll around watching the TiVoed episodes of "The Office" I don't watch because they aren't kid-friendly, order a pizza, watch more TV, take a nap.

In between that weekly and daily structure, we play games that incorporate math concepts, do art, dance, cook together, shop together.  All that has math components.  She knows a lot (for her age, I mean) about a lot of different things, like animals, human biology (though she doesn't know the word "biology," I don't think), countries of the world and languages.  She can tell an English accent from a Scottish accent (partly thanks to you!), and a French accent from a Spanish accent.  She recently got firmly which is right and which is left.  She jumps on our big bed a lot, and is working on cartwheels.  She does worksheets when she wants to, with phonics or matching or connect the dots or other stuff on them.  I would say that academically she's ahead of average in most things, but not in arithmetic.  Developmentally that hasn't clicked in much yet.  But she can count confidently and carefully, and can say the days of the week in English and French.  I could go on and on (and have).

I wish this way of life for all who would want it.  I know not everyone does.  And I know many people simply can't.  I mean we are living on one income now.  To buy things I want for homeschooling I sometimes use money from my savings from when I worked.  I try not to spend much.  But I pretty freely buy stuff if I think it's educational.

I will say that I know families where the "HOME" and "SCHOOL" parts of homeschooling are emphasized much more than we do.  Every day they have actual textbook learning, following through systematically.  If yesterday was page 8 and 9 in their grammar book, then today is pages 10 and 11, or whatever.  And they don't go gallivanting as much as we do.  But I can't tell that their kids know more than MiniMeno does, or have better critical thinking skills.  The beauty is we are finding what works FOR US.  That's about the most one could wish from life, I think.

[serious crayons]

Well again, remember - she's 5 1/2.  I'm sure we will be separate more often as she gets older. 

Oh, we've had to separate at every age. As my sons have gotten older, we've separated more and more for their sakes. But in the earlier days, we separated for MY sake. Before they were in school, they were in daycare three afternoons a week. And then they were in school. I suppose there are parents somewhere out there who could have been them 24/7 and remained sane. But so far, this could not be said about, for instance, any of their teachers (the elder one's anyway).

Your schedule sounds extremely fun and nice. That would be a pretty idyllic life with a 5-year-old. But some of the things you all do would not have worked well with my kids. Before they were in school, and even after, I took them to a lot of places and activities: firehall open houses, pick-your-own orchards, libraries, nature classes, pools, parks, playgrounds, pet stores, and so on. We very rarely stayed home all day, again for the sake of all our sanity, and we had a lot of fun. Driving from one thing to another, we'd play word games, and they were really good at those. For example, if we were playing opposites, and I said "old," they would point out that the answer could be "new" or "young." Short could be "tall" or "long."

But unless the activity was active and/or competitive enough, my kids would not sit still for it nor invest in the importance of its success. This is the difference I always saw with my sons, again particularly the elder, who of course influenced the younger. I began to notice that other children looked to adults for guidance. The adults would indicate that this is the way things are done, and the kids -- not always, probably, but often -- would do their best to follow the correct procedure.

Mine never did that.

I'll give one example: I took them to the weekly story time at the library once. Roomful of kids their age, all sitting raptly listening to the story. Five minutes into it, mine started complaining. "This is boring!" "Shhhh!" "Let's get out of here!" "Quiet!" They got up and started walking around. We left and didn't go back.

Wait, I'll give you one more example. I took them to nature class at the neighborhood park. That one went fairly well, because there was a lot of outdoor activities -- looking for tracks in the snow, making snow ice cream, etc. But there were indoor parts, where a park district naturalist would talk to the group of about five or six kids about wolves and owls and things like that. My elder son completely dominated those. Every question the teacher asked, he would raise his hand and/or blurt out the answer. Pretty soon all the other kids were sitting quietly while the teacher and my son held a dialogue. I would think, wow, he's really smart and he knows all the answers, but when he gets into school he's going to drive his teachers crazy.

And sure enough, that's exactly how it went.

[Ellemeno]

Oh, we've had to separate at every age. As my sons have gotten older, we've separated more and more for their sakes. But in the earlier days, we separated for MY sake. Before they were in school, they were in daycare three afternoons a week. And then they were in school. I suppose there are parents somewhere out there who could have been them 24/7 and remained sane. But so far, this could not be said about, for instance, any of their teachers (the elder one's anyway).

Your schedule sounds extremely fun and nice. That would be a pretty idyllic life with a 5-year-old. But some of the things you all do would not have worked well with my kids. Before they were in school, and even after, I took them to a lot of places and activities: firehall open houses, pick-your-own orchards, libraries, nature classes, pools, parks, playgrounds, pet stores, and so on. We very rarely stayed home all day, again for the sake of all our sanity, and we had a lot of fun. Driving from one thing to another, we'd play word games, and they were really good at those. For example, if we were playing opposites, and I said "old," they would point out that the answer could be "new" or "young." Short could be "tall" or "long."

But unless the activity was active and/or competitive enough, my kids would not sit still for it nor invest in the importance of its success. This is the difference I always saw with my sons, again particularly the elder, who of course influenced the younger. I began to notice that other children looked to adults for guidance. The adults would indicate that this is the way things are done, and the kids -- not always, probably, but often -- would do their best to follow the correct procedure.

Mine never did that.

I'll give one example: I took them to the weekly story time at the library once. Roomful of kids their age, all sitting raptly listening to the story. Five minutes into it, mine started complaining. "This is boring!" "Shhhh!" "Let's get out of here!" "Quiet!" They got up and started walking around. We left and didn't go back.

Wait, I'll give you one more example. I took them to nature class at the neighborhood park. That one went fairly well, because there was a lot of outdoor activities -- looking for tracks in the snow, making snow ice cream, etc. But there were indoor parts, where a park district naturalist would talk to the group of about five or six kids about wolves and owls and things like that. My elder son completely dominated those. Every question the teacher asked, he would raise his hand and/or blurt out the answer. Pretty soon all the other kids were sitting quietly while the teacher and my son held a dialogue. I would think, wow, he's really smart and he knows all the answers, but when he gets into school he's going to drive his teachers crazy.

And sure enough, that's exactly how it went.

I'm relating to this too, K.  Story time at the library never held M's attention.  It's only recently that the library can be for reading together.  At story time M used to wander the room, and I worried about her distracting the other kids, so we quit doing that.  Well, and I also learned to accept that 5 or 10 minutes may be all she would do.

Your older son's passion to discuss sounds exhilarating, and challenging to meld with a group.  I get that.  And I hear you on the need to separate, as I illustrated.

It sounds like you did a great job giving your kids early experiences.

[Kelda]

Wow, Clarissa, schhol for Mini-Meno sounds idyllic, as Katherine says! And it works for both of you - which is great. And I love that she knows accents!!

What age do kids start school in the US?

I was four and a half. But I was one of the youngest of my class because my birthday is December and the cut of date for class intake is February so most are 5. Primary one was very much about coming out of shell and learning basic things - you're doing the same thing but in different (more fun!!) ways.

As she gets older of course, you may need to change tact but it seems like things are working perfectly just now. And its great how all the homeschoolers do stuff together. How do you all find out about each other? What you've described is very different from what I guess is my sterotypical thoughts of what homeschooling is from movies etc. Is sounds ike so much fun but also hard work for you. I'm not sure I could do it even if money worries etc were not an issue. 

Will she have to sit tests the same as those at school as she gets older?

Oh & whats Waldorf?

[serious crayons]

What age do kids start school in the US?

Kids start kindergarten when they're 5 by Sept. 1. I started when I was 4, because my birthday is in October, though I had to take a special test to do it. I was always one of the youngest in my class, and though I did fine academically I can see, retrospectively, that I was probably more immature socially. For example, in kindergarten I cried and wanted to go home. "What would you do if you went home?" the teacher asked. "Watch TV?" "Yes!" I sobbed.

They don't allow that at all anymore. My son's birthday is in late September, and he did not have the option to start at 4. Instead, his school district offered a pre-kindergarten program for fall-birthday kids called "High Fives." It was nice, because it followed the same hours as kindergarten, was somewhat academic, and unlike day care it was free. Unfortunately, he then found kindergarten really redundant and caused even more trouble than he might have otherwise.

So he is one of the oldest kids in his class in addition to being one of the smartest. In the years since then, we have talked from time to time with school officials about him skipping a grade, but for one reason or another -- mainly because we moved -- it never quite worked out. But looking back it has always seemed like it would have been easier to have him start early, rather than skip a whole year in which you'd assume they would attempt to teach some worthwhile material. His schools and district have always had inadequate programs for gifted students.

But now that I think of it, I wonder if my own childhood shyness may have been exacerbated by being relatively young, and my son's utter self-confidence may be enhanced by being one of the oldest. Both of our characteristics were in place before we started school, but still ... 

Oh & whats Waldorf?

I know the answer to this but I'll let Clarissa or someone else take it. Due to having had an obnoxious Waldorf-endorsing neighbor, I'm sort of prejudiced against the program.

[Kelda]

Thanks Katherine!

I get confused by Kindergarten too... Is Kindergarten like nursery in Scotland? I'm think probably not from what you said.

All 3 and 4 year old children in Scotland are entitled to a free nursery place with "a curriculum framework for children 3–5"providing the curricular guidelines.

In 2002, the most up to date stats I could find, 96% of 4 year olds and 80% of 3 year olds received grant funded pre-school education in 2000-01.

Formal primary education begins at approximately 5 years old and lasts for 7 years (P1–P7). Kids the move on to secondryschool. Today, sll children in Scotland sit Standard Grade exams at approximately 15 or 16. The school leaving age is 16, after which students may choose to remain at school and study for Access, Intermediate or Higher Grade and Advanced Higher exams. Fomr there they can then move on to univerity or further education.