Author Topic: Ennis and Old Man Twist  (Read 27296 times)

Offline Toast

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Re: Ennis and Old Man Twist
« Reply #70 on: March 05, 2007, 11:38:57 am »

-- Why didn't OMT ever teach Jack a thing or go see him ride?
  I think John Twist, probably because Jack was an only child, wanted him to stay on the ranch and make it work.  Encouraging him to ride would have meant the end of his ranch.

-- What did he know or suspect about Jack? How about Jack and Ennis? How about Jack and Randall?
  I think John Twist knew that Jack was not the marryin kind from an early age, and figured - in a practical sense - that two men would be ok for the survival of the ranch.  Old Man Twist expressed disgust - not at Jack having a man come back here with him - but at the fact that Jack's dreams came to nothing.

-- Was he a mean SOB through and through, or was he genuinely grieving Jack (not mutually exclusive, acutually)?
  I think John Twist was purely a practical man, and grieves more that the ranch will die, but probably genuinely wants Jack buried here on the ranch that Jack could have saved. 

-- Was he homophobic?
  No, John Twist viewed sexual and spiritual things as separate from the person's ability to be a productive unit in the survival of the community.  He judged a person by his/her ability to be an economic unit.   If Jack had told his father that Ennis and Jack would turn the farm into a landscape painting studio, John might have expressed his anti-artisitic "homophobia".  However I think John's sexual views about hetero or homo habits were purely practical.  Don't ask, don't tell.

-- Why didn't he let Ennis take the ashes?
  John Twist sees no meaning in the ashes of Jack, and probably cannot understand the effect on either Ennis or Jack.   He certainly has no perception of Jack being more at rest on the Mountain.

-- When he insisted Jack be buried in the "family plot," what did he mean -- was that an allusion to what we think of as (anti-gay) family values, or simply an assertion of control, or something else entirely?
  John Twist sees no meaning in the ashes of Jack, and probably cannot understand the effect on either Ennis or Jack.   He probably wants Jack to stay here on the ranch which Jack could have kept up and made a go of.

-- Ennis protectively shields the shirts when walking past OMT in the kitchen. What if he hadn't, and John Twist had seen the shirts? Would he have snatched them from Ennis' hands?
  These shirts have no meaning to John Twist.  To him they are mere rags that could be used to wipe off some dirty work area.   I think If/when Mrs. Twist died before John, he would have quickly gone out and found a housekeeper/wife with little emotional reaction.   And the new wife could wear Mrs. Twist's previous clothes with no reaction from John Twist.  I think John represents a purely practical human survival mode of life.

-- How does story-OMT differ from movie-OMT? Can you imagine movie-OMT participating in the peeing-on-Jack scene that was in the story but omitted from the movie?
  I think movie Old Man Twist would not have put Jack on the woolies, looked out to Jack and his peeing, or encouraged him to do/be anything other than a hard working ranch hand.  His interest in Jack having a wife would have only been to reproduce and provide another generation to keep the ranch alive, and bringing home a man would have been ok if they worked hard and kept up the ranch. 

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Ennis and Old Man Twist
« Reply #71 on: March 05, 2007, 01:13:51 pm »
Interesting observations, Toast! Did you perchance grow up on a farm??

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Offline Jeff Wrangler

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Re: Ennis and Old Man Twist
« Reply #72 on: March 05, 2007, 01:30:56 pm »
Yes, but OMT wouldn't have known that. I think Ennis shields the shirts from OMT as part of his general paranoia. OMT wouldn't have begrudged him the shirts IMO.

Sure. I guess I just didn't understand your point in mentioning that he didn't see the second shirt.
"It is required of every man that the spirit within him should walk abroad among his fellow-men, and travel far and wide."--Charles Dickens.

Offline Front-Ranger

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Re: Ennis and Old Man Twist
« Reply #73 on: March 05, 2007, 02:59:20 pm »
There are about 20 points to the second shirt, and they are not mine, but I'll mention a few of them:

The hidden shirt is Ennis's, with his blood on it. He hides his true nature from the world. Jack facilitated this and gave up his life for it.

OMT does not see the hidden shirt and is not aware of it but Mary Twist is. She weighed the shirt in her hand when putting it in the bag and knows that it's too heavy for one shirt.

The shirts are proof of Jack's existence and Jack's love. They are Ennis's shroud of Turin.

As Toast says, OMT sees the shirt just as a rag, just for its practical value. He does not invest in the shirts any respect or worth.

The shirts are the only thing left from their Brokeback Mountain days. In those shirts, Jack's body was bruised by Ennis, and Ennis's blood was shed by Jack. In those shirts they became blood brothers.
"chewing gum and duct tape"

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Ennis and Old Man Twist
« Reply #74 on: June 08, 2007, 12:38:58 am »
Lee I love the last post  you posted here!
 :-*

And, I'm reviving this because Old Man Twist has again reared his head as a figure of considerable controversy.  He's (at the very least) interesting and invigorating to debate.
 :-\ ;D
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Ennis and Old Man Twist
« Reply #75 on: June 08, 2007, 12:46:42 am »
I'm reviving this because Old Man Twist has again reared his head as a figure of considerable controversy.  He's (at the very least) interesting and invigorating to debate.

YOU BET.  ;D :laugh: ;)

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Ennis and Old Man Twist
« Reply #76 on: June 08, 2007, 12:48:37 am »
Sure enough!
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Rayn

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Re: Ennis and Old Man Twist
« Reply #77 on: June 12, 2007, 07:52:06 pm »
OK, about this topic... Here' s my ten cents worth:

   We all know how Ennis reacted to people who threatened people he loved or him, or pissed him off or otherwise got under his skin.  He focused his anger and got brutal sometimes.  He had a temper even Jack felt early on, eh?  So, I don't think Ennis and John Twist would have lasted very long on the same ranch.  Now, also, Ennis was pretty respectful of people. He addresses Mr.Twist at "Sir" which is from his upbringing and he remained quiet in the face of what was rather callous and hostile treatment from John.  Granted, at the time, Ennis was grief stricken, so how long that respect would have held under every day work situations, is hard to tell, but I'd bet a month or less.

Yes, Mrs. Twist and he would have been OK, but I don't see Ennis doing anything but attempting to be careful and respectful of John Twist at first, but at the first sign of serious abuse or injustice, Ennis would have confronted it and then packed up and left, with or without Jack.  Not that he'd have been afraid. If anything, he'd have been afraid of what might happen if he stayed! 

And yeah, in the book it goes into how John Twist abused Jack in a horrible way, humiliated him and abused him.  We don't know if Jack ever told Ennis about it, but it was there and if the three were living together, it could have very well come up, and again, I don't think Ennis could have put up with it. 

I do think it strange that Jack thought Ennis, and Randall too, could've lived there, coupled together.  In some ways it indicates that Jack may have been rather out of touch with what normal, healthy families are like.  When abuse is all you know and you have nothing to compare it to, you think it's "normal".   John Twist was a nasty, hateful old buzzard as stubborn as the summer is long.  His own wife was afraid of him.  And although I'm not one of them, some Brokies think he may even have hated Jack's orientation enough to have had a hand in his son's own murder.

Personally, I believe Lureen's story about how Jack died, but that's what some Brokies think.

There, that's eleven cents.... I overdid it!    ;)

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Ennis and Old Man Twist
« Reply #78 on: March 31, 2008, 03:06:06 pm »
Bump!
8)

the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie