Author Topic: Was Cassie in the Brokeback Mountain movie homophobic?  (Read 53922 times)

Offline BlissC

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Re: Was Cassie in the Brokeback Mountain movie homophobic?
« Reply #50 on: April 06, 2008, 11:39:03 am »
Alma knows about Ennis and Jack right back from the time of the four year reunion - we know that from the scene at Thanksgiving when she confronts him about it. She knew for all those years, but she never told anyone, never said anything when she could have ruined Ennis, but she didn't. That says a lot about Alma as a person. Was it to protect Ennis? Was it to protect the girls? Maybe she was simply trying desperately to save her marriage, because after all she does love Ennis. She refers to Jack as "Jack Nasty", but again I don't think that's because she's homophobic (again, we're not privy to her thoughts either, and we're given no indication either way really) but more that Jack's the person who in her eyes "stole" her husband away from her. Even after the Thanksgiving scene though, there's still no indication that she tells anyone. Ennis still lives in or near the town, and is still finding work in the area, so there's no indication that anyone knows Ennis's secret.

I don't think there's any indication at all that Cassie knows anything about Jack, or even suspects, so I don't think that Cassie would be a danger to him, even after they break up. Alma certainly could be a potential danger to him, but as I said, there's no indication that she says anything to anyone, and though I suspect the fact that she could potentially tell is something that's a constant worry to Ennis, I think that they probably came to some kind of uneasy truce.

Such murders of gay men still happen in our societies, unfortunately, just because they are gay men !! The case of Sheppard is one !! And many murderers get away with it - (I know of one in my last city who never spent a day in jail since the jury believed him and felt sorry for the murderer... of all things !!), or a murderer just spends few hours in prisons! But the dead can not talk... and neither can his relatives nor loves nor others talk to him now !!

I fear nearly daily getting to be discovered as a gay man, and getting murdered because of that orientation !!
I have lost jobs, reputations, health, a house and property, because I am a gay man in our democratic societies !! And I fear the islamics and other such radicals coming into our lands, since many would be proud to murder a gay man !!

So Ennis  fears and much more, since even for his life !!

As you say, that such murders still occur today in the twenty-first century in a supposedly enlightened society is a tragedy, and that gay men, such as yourself, must fear the consequences of their sexuality becoming known is something that shouldn't happen.  We live in an imperfect world though, and sadly society has alsorts of prejudices and faults. I do fear though the demonising of the Islamic culture. My background is in working in equal opportunities, and through my work I have come into contact with a lot of people from different cultures. The majority, even if they don't always share all of our "western" beliefs and customs, would never condone murder and such acts of violence. To brand all Muslims as radicals, extremists and terrorists is like saying that those involved in the Waco siege (Seventh Day Adventists are a Protestant Christian denomination) are representative of all Christians, which simply isn't true. Numerically religious extremists make up only a small minority of those within religions. Branches of different religions all over the world have extreme views, and not all radicals and extremists form their ideologies based on religious views.

The British National Party in the UK is an extreme right-wing political party whose main policy is of returning the UK to a "overwhelmingly white makeup of the British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948" - they don't accept the Jewish, Hindu or Sikh, or Muslim religions to be culturally or ethnically British. Under their previous leadership their policies were largely anti-Semetic, but their current membership focuses on Muslims.  They have anti-homosexuality policies also though and have a policy of re-criminalisation of homosexuality, and advocates the repeal of all anti-discrimination legislation.

They often are linked to violence and intimidation (such characters are portrayed in parts in the film "My Beautiful Laundrette" about a gay relationship between two young gay men, one white and one Asian - ages since I've watched that actually - I might watch that tonight) and they have also been linked to terrorist groups. The BNP's philosophy isn't based on religion, but they can be just as dangerous.

Prejudice and intolerance exists in all sorts of forms and in all segments of society still today, whether in rural Wyoming, or inner-cities in the UK, Canada or the US, and homophobia is still very much alive similarly, and is something we should all be fighting.


"No matter how hard you try, You're still in prison, If ya born with wings and you never fly."

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Was Cassie in the Brokeback Mountain movie homophobic?
« Reply #51 on: April 06, 2008, 09:20:08 pm »
For the original subject:

Was Cassie in the Brokeback Mountain movie homophobic?

We have no way to tell.



I think that you are correct, there really isn't enough material in either the ss or the film to give us any idea of Cassie's tolerance or intolerance for gays. We can make assumptions about her, but that is all, and those assumptions do not shed much light on the film or the short story.

Offline RossInIllinois

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Re: Was Cassie in the Brokeback Mountain movie homophobic?
« Reply #52 on: April 06, 2008, 10:00:24 pm »
Good Grief, Not this crap again, say it isn't so....

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Was Cassie in the Brokeback Mountain movie homophobic?
« Reply #53 on: April 06, 2008, 10:14:41 pm »
Good Grief, Not this crap again, say it isn't so....

Ross, Artiste brought it up.

 I am just trying to place it in context by saying that we don't know enough about the character to evaluate her in that manner. and then hopefully we will move on.

Offline Artiste

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Re: Was Cassie in the Brokeback Mountain movie homophobic?
« Reply #54 on: April 07, 2008, 10:23:08 am »
Thanks Bliss!

You say much and you will only get a too brief reply right now, since I am terribly late in starting to create my paintings to-day already!

Here goes!

You say:
   Even after the Thanksgiving scene though, there's still no indication that she tells anyone. Ennis still lives in or near the town, and is still finding work in the area, so there's no indication that anyone knows Ennis's secret.
 

......

Bliss and to others:
I don't think that is exactly correct, since there are some hints or proofs, surely!!
1- Doesn't Alma know Cassie ??
2- Alma talks loud or yells at Jack at the Thanksgiving dinner, remember ?? Doesn't the others there figure or hear that ??
3- I can not think that Alma does not talk privately to the next husband she marries after her first (Jack), can you?
4- May I repeat that Cassie worked/works at the bar, and, therefore knows, many persons - with that experiences with the public, Cassie must be a good judge  of persons ??

Etc., later.

Pour le moment (For the moment), au revoir,
hugs!

Truth ?? There is much yet to be found about cassie !! - I feel... if I may say !!

Offline Artiste

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Re: Was Cassie in the Brokeback Mountain movie homophobic?
« Reply #55 on: April 07, 2008, 06:40:31 pm »
Was Cassie bad for Ennis??

Even if we like Cassie in some or many ways, she is  wrong maybe for Ennis ?

Would Cassie have been happy... if she would have lived with Ennis, even if he would have been in love with her ??

Even if Ennis could or would love her, he does not seem to be her type, since she likes to be agressive while he is quiet, she likes fun and dances, etc., being outgoing!! She would want to go out often while Ennis would prefer to stay at home resting after physical day long work !! ??

How long would Cassie and Ennis in such a marriage would last?  Especially once she figured that her husband Ennis loved a man ??

Would Cassie like to live live in a ranch with Ennis who would have to do so ??


Cassie wants to be a nurse! So, she would want to live in cities?

But there in cities, Ennis would have no jobs likely, or be unhappy!! ??

Much can be said yet about Cassie if she knows about Ennis who loves a man (Jack)... and is she homophobic?

Au revoir,
hugs!



Offline BlissC

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Re: Was Cassie in the Brokeback Mountain movie homophobic?
« Reply #56 on: April 07, 2008, 08:05:38 pm »
Some interesting points there Artiste. It's late though now here and I need to get to bed. I'll respond tomorrow when I get in from work.


"No matter how hard you try, You're still in prison, If ya born with wings and you never fly."

Offline brokeplex

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Re: Was Cassie in the Brokeback Mountain movie homophobic?
« Reply #57 on: April 07, 2008, 10:26:03 pm »
Was Cassie bad for Ennis??

Even if we like Cassie in some or many ways, she is  wrong maybe for Ennis ?

Would Cassie have been happy... if she would have lived with Ennis, even if he would have been in love with her ??

Even if Ennis could or would love her, he does not seem to be her type, since she likes to be agressive while he is quiet, she likes fun and dances, etc., being outgoing!! She would want to go out often while Ennis would prefer to stay at home resting after physical day long work !! ??

How long would Cassie and Ennis in such a marriage would last?  Especially once she figured that her husband Ennis loved a man ??

Would Cassie like to live live in a ranch with Ennis who would have to do so ??


Cassie wants to be a nurse! So, she would want to live in cities?

But there in cities, Ennis would have no jobs likely, or be unhappy!! ??

Much can be said yet about Cassie if she knows about Ennis who loves a man (Jack)... and is she homophobic?

Au revoir,
hugs!




perhaps Proulx and later the filmmakers were making a point in pairing Ennis with three people with whom he really could not for various reasons have a lifetime relationship. He is, to use Shakespeare's words, "starcrossed". Ennis is the ultimate outsider, only at home while he is alone, on the range, with his livestock who couldn't make verbal demands and didn't require much out of him except some feed. 

Offline Artiste

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Re: Was Cassie in the Brokeback Mountain movie homophobic?
« Reply #58 on: April 07, 2008, 10:52:57 pm »
Thanks oilfieldtrash!

May I say to you and to all too:
No man can be that much of an island ?

At least Ennis did communicate; that is tried !!
He had fun with Jack, he had a family... kids, and even after Cassie's insistance, he stopped that !!!

Do we tend to forget that he has those major concerns, plus the ongoing fear that if found with another man, his life is in danger !! ??

Does Ennis change ??  Did Cassie help him or harmed him in some way(s) ??

Au revoir,
hugs!


Offline brokeplex

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Re: Was Cassie in the Brokeback Mountain movie homophobic?
« Reply #59 on: April 07, 2008, 11:06:40 pm »
Thanks oilfieldtrash!

May I say to you and to all too:
No man can be that much of an island ?

At least Ennis did communicate; that is tried !!
He had fun with Jack, he had a family... kids, and even after Cassie's insistance, he stopped that !!!

Do we tend to forget that he has those major concerns, plus the ongoing fear that if found with another man, his life is in danger !! ??

Does Ennis change ??  Did Cassie help him or harmed him in some way(s) ??

Au revoir,
hugs!



I can't see that Cassie changed Ennis. Ennis was always an almost pathological loner, he really preferred to be by himself with the livestock. That is the major reason why he did not take the job with the county, and make more money and make Alma happy in the process.