What would have been Jack's reaction had Ennis died?

[Toast]

I think Jack would have always mourned Ennis, but he would have made a new life without him, still being sociable, joining up with someone else, but the drinking would have become more pronounced and Jack might have become less productive, with no one to encourage him to be the warm loving person that he is.  Like starboardlignt said, Jack might have become more reckless, and would have been a prime candidate for death by AIDS before 1990.

One statement of Jack's that is in the screenplay, but not in the movie or novella is
If you can't fix it then, by God, drive off from it - that's my motto.

He said this on the highway, when he met Randall.  Did he mean that he would walk away from Ennis, or from a tire problem?

I think Ennis will become sadder and remain withdrawn, but Jack would become possibly more "social" and less emotionally attached to anyone.  Drinking would become even more of a problem for Jack.
 
Annie gave us two characters who cannot stand alone.

Aren't we all like that, really?

[RouxB]

Pinku-I think maybe what Silk is getting at is that there are many people on this board with much experience with both the story and the movie and there is a diversity of opinion and all of it, including yours, is just that-opinion.

When John Twist tells Ennis of Jack's plan to bring up the rancher, he also states that, like most of Jack's plans, this one never came to pass-and not because Jack died.  

As for Jack's death, it too is ambiguous and is meant to be that way. I don't know if you have read the numerous interviews with Ang Lee, Larry McMurtry and Diana Osana, not to mention Annie Proulx but each one of them has affirmed that Jack's death is meant to be unclear and it is up to the reader to interpret it according to his or her own life experience. I would be happy to direct you to some of those interviews if you would like.

Lastly, this board is full of brilliant, insightful people with interpretations and opinions that are certainly worth hearing and respecting. It does all of us a disservice when you belittle and mock those opinions. We are, a lot of us, refugees from the nastiness and rudeness of IMDb and don't wish to see that happen here at Bettermost. These is a peaceful, though spirited, community where differences in interpretation are welcomed. It would be great to have you participate in that spirit.

Ruby

 

[pinku]

To Ruby,

I beg to differ! The ambiguity is in the movie not in the novel. I would welcome if you would direct me to sites that have the writer saying that Jack's death is open to interpretation.
 

[serious crayons]

I beg to differ! The ambiguity is in the movie not in the novel. I would welcome if you would direct me to sites that have the writer saying that Jack's death is open to interpretation.

I'm sorry, I should probably just run upstairs and get my book and quote exactly, it's late and I'm lazy, but isn't there a part about "sometimes the tire iron, sometimes the spoon"?

[Penthesilea]

Hi pinku, we haven't talked so far, so I first want to say 'Welcome to BetterMost' to you.


This is the paragraph latjoreme referred to; it's the last paragraph from the strory.

Around that time Jack began to appear in his dreams, Jack as he has first seen him, curly-headed and smiling and bucktoothed, talking about getting up off his pockets and into the control zone, but the can of beans with the spoon handle jutting out and balanced on the log was there as well, in a cartoon shape and lurid colors that gave the dreams a flavor of comic obscenity. The spoon handle was the kind that could be used as a tire iron. And he would wake sometimes in grief, sometimes with the old sense of joy and release; the pillow sometimes wet, sometimes the sheets.
There was some open space between what he knew and what he tried to believe, but nothing could be done about it, and if you can't fix it you've got to stand it.

(Emphasis mine)

I, too, remember Annie Proulx saying something to the effect that is indeed open to interpretation how Jack died. If memory serves, she said she doesn't know for sure at herself. I'm sure Ruby will come up with the exact quotes and sources.

Many things in the story and in the movie are ambiguous and therefore open to interpretation. The circumstances of Jack's death and Jack's intentions after their final trip sure belong in this category.
These questions have been (and still are) discussed a lot on IMDB and here on BetterMost. It's ok to have diametrical POVs. We don't have to agree in these questions - as long as we are respectful towards other opinions and don't insist on having an exclusive right to interpret the story. In this spirit I'm looking forward to further discussions.

[aileen]

It' s clear for me that Jack would suffer as much as Ennis!!! But yes, maybe in the other way... Maybe he would find someone else and try to live with him - but he would always remember Ennis - his real, true love. He let Ennis keep him on "the f... short leash" for 20 years!!! He couldn' t just forget  him.... I want to believe this.

[Aussie Chris]

It should be noted that Jack had already decided to set up home with that rancher friend of his. When Jack's father informs Ennis about this - Ennis is sure that Jack was killed because of this decision. This is clear from the story! It is difficult to put it but Jack was going around with other men and had Ennis died it would have not ended his peccadilloes! He might have killed himself slowly by drinking more and surely would have missed Ennis badly.

I don't think I agree that Jack was in the thows of setting up home with Randall to the extent that you suggest here pinku, at least not in so far as to be leaving Ennis.  Yes he did tell his parents that he was going to "bring some other fella up", but we have to remember that until the argument they were going to meet again in August, so as far as we know there was no change in the relationship.  I guess if we are to think that the argument did precipitate the events leading to Jack's death (assuming the tire-iron of course), all of this must occur in the months between the argument scene and November.

I think your right though, Jack would have been devastated, but I think it would be different than for Ennis.  When Ennis loses Jack, he is filled with regret for his failure to see what he had with Jack.  His self-loathing greater than ever.  I think Jack was much more aware of what he had with Ennis, so his sadness will be more about missing Ennis than about regret.

[serious crayons]

I think your right though, Jack would have been devastated, but I think it would be different than for Ennis.  When Ennis loses Jack, he is filled with regret for his failure to see what he had with Jack.  His self-loathing greater than ever.  I think Jack was much more aware of what he had with Ennis, so his sadness will be more about missing Ennis than about regret.

Good point, Chris. Ennis' pain is especially sad because it's mingled with guilt and regret. 

[silkncense]

Thanks much RouxB & Penthesilea -

Hope the information you provided makes an impact.  Based on prior threads, I made a personal decision that it would not be beneficial for me (or this board) to continue the discussion.

Such an interesting question tho'.

[pinku]

Well, Thanks everyone!