OT: X-MEN: THE LAST STAND is....

[rtprod]

...not bad, but not exactly what the trailer promises either. 

Questions?  Just ask.   

rt

[littleguitar]

when does this come out? friday? I guess I could just look it up, but it seemed much easier to ask you 

[rtprod]

Yes it comes out Friday.  I'm sure it will do well this weekend.

rt

[cmr107]

So is it as good as the first two?

[opinionista]

Hey rt,

Sorry this is unrelated to X-Men, but have you seen Babel? I read it is a masterpiece.

[rtprod]

So is it as good as the first two?

Much better than the first, which I didn't like.  But not better than the second, which I felt was maybe more emotionally rounded (yes, I know it's a comic book film but it felt deeper). 

[rtprod]

Hey rt,

Sorry this is unrelated to X-Men, but have you seen Babel? I read it is a masterpiece.

hey you-

I have not seen it but am waiting anxiously....

rt

[dmmb_Mandy]

*so jealous* I can't wait to see it.

It was just 'not bad' ? Elaborate. What was the best and worst aspect of the movie? What would you give it, in a percentage?

[slayers_creek_oth]

Cool!  I'll see it tomorrow mornin...

[rtprod]

*so jealous* I can't wait to see it.

It was just 'not bad' ? Elaborate. What was the best and worst aspect of the movie? What would you give it, in a percentage?

It's maybe 3 stars.  It simply didn't thrill me until the final sequence between Jean and Wolverine.  Not quite sure how this happened, but Ratner doesn't pump the action up to the level it needs to be, IMO. 

This is more a "sum of the parts" experience where certain scenes resonate---Jean ("Phoenix") attempting to seduce Wolverine after waking up, Jean levitating her childhood home in a face-off with Magneto and Xavier, Jean obliterating Alcatraz and turning the armies to dust with a feral, Carrie-like and almost demonic presence in the film's climax. 

In other words, this film belongs to Famke Janssen who is alternately sympathetic and terrifying, and the introduction of her "schizophrenic" personalities gives her a chance to really run with the ball.  The last scene between her and Wolverine is really something and I wish the rest of the film had been as gripping.  She's way underrated in the biz.

Ian McKellen is also terrific here, as in everything.  What other actor today can bring the same sterling authority to X-Men and Lord of the Rings, and just as comfortably to Da Vinci or Gods and Monsters or Richard III?  I saw him a few seasons ago on Broadway in Stridberg's Dance of Death with Helen Mirren, and he blew me away (as did she).  And I love how outspoken he is.  Almost like a hero to me these days...

I found the theme (curing the "disease") to be heavy-handed and a little bit silly. 

I liked it enough, I suppose, but wanted to love it.  Ben Foster is really striking in a few scenes...

I also checked my watch a few times.......   

[vkm91941]

It's maybe 3 stars.  It simply didn't thrill me until the final sequence between Jean and Wolverine.  Not quite sure how this happened, but Ratner doesn't pump the action up to the level it needs to be, IMO. 

This is more a "sum of the parts" experience where certain scenes resonate---Jean ("Phoenix") attempting to seduce Wolverine after waking up, Jean levitating her childhood home in a face-off with Magneto and Xavier, Jean obliterating Alcatraz and turning the armies to dust with a feral, Carrie-like and almost demonic presence in the film's climax. 

In other words, this film belongs to Famke Janssen who is alternately sympathetic and terrifying, and the introduction of her "schizophrenic" personalities gives her a chance to really run with the ball.  The last scene between her and Wolverine is really something and I wish the rest of the film had been as gripping.  She's way underrated in the biz.

Ian McKellen is also terrific here, as in everything.  What other actor today can bring the same sterling authority to X-Men and just as comfortably to Da Vinci or Gods and Monsters or Richard III?  I saw him a few seasons ago on Broadway in Stridberg's Dance of Death with Helen Mirren, and he blew me away (as did she).  And I love how outspoken he is.  Almost like a hero to me these days...

I found the theme (curing the "disease") to be heavy-handed and a little bit silly. 

I liked it enough, I suppose, but wanted to love it.  Ben Foster is really striking in a few scenes...

I also checked my watch a few times.......   

Sounds like I won't be disappointed I spent my $7 ($21) bucks!  Cool, of course I would have spent it even if it was a stinker because my boys love X-men and we always go together LOL...keeps me cool in their eyes    So Friday afterschool we'll be there.

[Sheyne]

Thanks, rt...

I didn't know anything about this X-Men movie and to hear there is actually a face-off between Wolverine and Jean.. wow...   

Can't wait to see it.

[JCinNYC2006]

I'm dying to see it too, and I probably will tomorrow night.  There are a bunch of midnight showings here in the city. 

Can I make a general request?  If a thread or post is going into detail about a movie, to put SPOILERS in the subject somewhere?  I know I could just avoid the thread before I see it, but I like the discussion and just want to be forewarned if someone's gonna give something away.  Thanks.

Juan

[rtprod]

I'm dying to see it too, and I probably will tomorrow night.  There are a bunch of midnight showings here in the city. 

Can I make a general request?  If a thread or post is going into detail about a movie, to put SPOILERS in the subject somewhere?  I know I could just avoid the thread before I see it, but I like the discussion and just want to be forewarned if someone's gonna give something away.  Thanks.

Juan

Oh, I didn't know I gave anything away.  I historically have put spoilers on my posts but in this case I think I just isolated a few scenes.

Sorry.

[JCinNYC2006]

No prob, it wasn't anything you wrote specifically.  I glanced over the thread and when I thought I read stuff about Phoenix and Wolverine, I quickly averted my eyes    I will know all soon enough, just 24 hours away......

Juan

[JCinNYC2006]

My eyes are circled because of it but I went to see a midnight showing.  I loved it, I'll probably see it again over the weekend.  Emotionally it was very intense because of the fate of a few major characters, which ultimately I found to be a pretty bold choice.  The idea for a cure to the mutant gene worked for me, since it continues the theme of prejudice and stigma.  Some of the action sequences were amazing, and I loved how Wolverine and Storm were more center stage this time around, especially Storm.

I went with a friend who had only seen parts of X-2 and explained to her about the Phoenix storyline in the comics, and the way it was adapted for the movie was fine, no more incredulous than what the character's been through in the books.  It wasn't as good as the second one, which set a pretty high standard.  There were a ton of new characters, most of whom were handled well, especially Beast, Angel and Leech.  Yeah, I'm gonna see it again by Monday, good stuff.

Juan

[rtprod]

My eyes are circled because of it but I went to see a midnight showing.  I loved it, I'll probably see it again over the weekend.  Emotionally it was very intense because of the fate of a few major characters, which ultimately I found to be a pretty bold choice.  The idea for a cure to the mutant gene worked for me, since it continues the theme of prejudice and stigma.  Some of the action sequences were amazing, and I loved how Wolverine and Storm were more center stage this time around, especially Storm.

I went with a friend who had only seen parts of X-2 and explained to her about the Phoenix storyline in the comics, and the way it was adapted for the movie was fine, no more incredulous than what the character's been through in the books.  It wasn't as good as the second one, which set a pretty high standard.  There were a ton of new characters, most of whom were handled well, especially Beast, Angel and Leech.  Yeah, I'm gonna see it again by Monday, good stuff.

Juan

Hi Juan,

I agree with you it wasn't as good as the second one.  And I thought Angel was pretty much wasted.  Something seemed off to me here which I think was Ratner and much of the action I thought was not very imaginatively shot -- did you happen to notice that the camera doesn't really move enough?  Maybe it was just me.  Maybe you really have to be a fan of the comics to love this one, whereas the second one was a classy movie for anyone. 

rt

[JCinNYC2006]

I agree with you there about being more into it as a comics fan.  I could almost tick off the different storylines that it drew from.  And it was easy to blame Ratner for any detail that I thought was 'off', like Calisto's powers/appearance.  You thought Angel was wasted?  Everytime he swooped on those wings it gave me a little rush, and I guess his big moment was towards the end with his father.  And swooping around mostly shirtless didn't hurt.

Juan

[starboardlight]

It's maybe 3 stars.  It simply didn't thrill me until the final sequence between Jean and Wolverine.  Not quite sure how this happened, but Ratner doesn't pump the action up to the level it needs to be, IMO. 

This is more a "sum of the parts" experience where certain scenes resonate---Jean ("Phoenix") attempting to seduce Wolverine after waking up, Jean levitating her childhood home in a face-off with Magneto and Xavier, Jean obliterating Alcatraz and turning the armies to dust with a feral, Carrie-like and almost demonic presence in the film's climax. 

In other words, this film belongs to Famke Janssen who is alternately sympathetic and terrifying, and the introduction of her "schizophrenic" personalities gives her a chance to really run with the ball.  The last scene between her and Wolverine is really something and I wish the rest of the film had been as gripping.  She's way underrated in the biz.

Ian McKellen is also terrific here, as in everything.  What other actor today can bring the same sterling authority to X-Men and just as comfortably to Da Vinci or Gods and Monsters or Richard III?  I saw him a few seasons ago on Broadway in Stridberg's Dance of Death with Helen Mirren, and he blew me away (as did she).  And I love how outspoken he is.  Almost like a hero to me these days...

I found the theme (curing the "disease") to be heavy-handed and a little bit silly. 

I liked it enough, I suppose, but wanted to love it.  Ben Foster is really striking in a few scenes...

I also checked my watch a few times.......   

RT, I agree with most of your assessments. The film was entertaining but not all that impressive. The whole "Last Stand" battle should have felt more epic than it turned out to be. I disagree with it be Famke's film. Maybe it's because I'm was an Xmen fan in my teen and college years, but was disappointed with the characterization of Pheonix. She is Jean's uninhibited superego, but she goes through most of the film with a black expression on her face. We see her beginning coming out as she tries to seduce Logan. We see her struggle with herself a few times, but I was wanting Pheonix to be full of rage and emotions, and I wanted to see Jean struggling to take control more.

The one scene that really hit me was the scene with young Warren in the bathroom. I don't think it's a secret that the plight of the Xmen have been compared to that of the gay and lesbian community. I think that's why it's got such a following with gay and lesbian teens. That scene broke my heart, because how many of us have stood in the bathroom crying, hating ourselves so much, wishing we could cut out what it was that made us gay? And it reminded me again how alone we all were growing up. That we were so afraid of our parents who are suppose to love and protect us.

[starboardlight]

btw, if you enjoyed the film enough to stay to the end, you must sit to the very end of the credits.

[starboardlight]

And I thought Angel was pretty much wasted.

yet another point I agree with. Starting off with the bathroom scene, his character had so much promise for development, emotionally. I would have liked to see more of it. While the swooping was fun to see, especially shirtless, it didn't give me much of a connection with his character.

I wonder, if maybe they're setting up for the next mutant movies. It's been said that this is the last Xmen movie, but there are talk of spin offs. I certainly expect there'll be a Wolverine movie. I wonder too with introduction of all the young characters, even making Angle younger, they may be setting up for a teen mutant movie.

[JCinNYC2006]

btw, if you enjoyed the film enough to stay to the end, you must sit to the very end of the credits.

I didn't know this the first time!!!!  So after dinner last night, my friends and I went to see it again.  Brief but worth it!

Juan

[dmmb_Mandy]

Ahh shit, I didn't know that. I'm gonna have to see it again now. BTW, I liked it a lot!

[delalluvia]

Finally saw it.  I think it was up there with the 2nd episode in emotional impact.



SPOILERS!!!!!!!!!!!  SPOILERS!!!!!

The theme of mutation 'cures' was really good and done well with both the pros and cons shown.  You could sympathize with both PsOV.

Angel - while gorgeous - was unnecessary.

The entire movie is geared up for a battle...what does Angel do?

Fly.

A nice, easy target to shoot down with that big, pretty wingspan.

He wouldn't have been much help.

Plus, you know that Xavier's School is on the east coast, and the final battle takes place on the west coast...

Boy, Angel must have been flapping them wings like mad to get there...or he probably just threw on a coat and took an early flight to get there in time.

Rogue was also taken out of the action as she didn't have the talents for a stand up fight.

Kurt, the Night Crawler would have come in handy at the fight, but we guessed he went back to the circus.

We all wondered why Magneto needed an 'army' at all, since Phoenix was more than capable of dealing with all and sundry.

We did think that Rogue and Leech would have made a good couple.  She would have been able to touch him.

But we did wonder why she came back to the school.  She wasn't a mutant anymore.  Why didn't she just go home?

The face-off bewteen Phoenix and Wolverine was really good - Phoenix who can destroy and Wolverine who regenerates and can't really be destroyed.  We were hoping Phoenix would manage to rip ALL of Wolverine's clothes off at the end.

Damn.

[two_bloody_shirts]

I watched this film, also saw one and two (and enjoyed them all), but for some reason I was hoping for something more in this.  I thought the end was a bit corny. 

One thing I really like about the X-Men films is they bring in emotional impact which some action flicks don't have to this extent.  I would recommend it but would caution it wasn't quite what I was expecting.

But we did wonder why she came back to the school.  She wasn't a mutant anymore.  Why didn't she just go home?

She was in love with Bobby - that was the whole point of her taking the "cure".  That's why she came back to the school.

However, in light of the spoilerific ending, she might not have much time to touch him.   

[delalluvia]

I watched this film, also saw one and two (and enjoyed them all), but for some reason I was hoping for something more in this.  I thought the end was a bit corny.

Which ending?   

One thing I really like about the X-Men films is they bring in emotional impact which some action flicks don't have to this extent.  I would recommend it but would caution it wasn't quite what I was expecting.

What were you expecting?

She was in love with Bobby - that was the whole point of her taking the "cure".  That's why she came back to the school.

So, in spite of Wolverine's warning, she DID do it for Bobby and their relationship and not for herself.

[slayers_creek_oth]

I guess I better see it soon.....tomorrow I suppose!

[two_bloody_shirts]

Which ending?   

What were you expecting?

So, in spite of Wolverine's warning, she DID do it for Bobby and their relationship and not for herself.

*SPOILERS*

I was expecting something different regarding Jean and Logan.  I hadn't read anything prior to watching the film, so I hadn't spoiled myself in any way.  I guess I didn't know what Pheonix was going to be like in this installment, so that was a surprise.  I was stunned that Jean killed Scott...that came out of left field for me.  The whole thing went down differently than I expected, but it wasn't entirely a bad thing.

Yeah, I think Marie did it for Bobby more than anything, but I do think she had a lot of her own motivations on needing to be able to touch anyone, not just Bobby.  But she came back for him, so I think that was her bigger motivation.

[delalluvia]

*SPOILERS*

I was expecting something different regarding Jean and Logan.  I hadn't read anything prior to watching the film, so I hadn't spoiled myself in any way.  I guess I didn't know what Pheonix was going to be like in this installment, so that was a surprise.  I was stunned that Jean killed Scott...that came out of left field for me.  The whole thing went down differently than I expected, but it wasn't entirely a bad thing.

OK, I had kinda heard what was going to happen and I knew from the comic books about Phoenix, so that wasn't a surprise at all.

Yeah, I think Marie did it for Bobby more than anything, but I do think she had a lot of her own motivations on needing to be able to touch anyone, not just Bobby.  But she came back for him, so I think that was her bigger motivation.

Agree.  Marie needed to do it for herself, but she is a very young woman and puppy love/first love/jealousy/insecurity is a very strong motivator.

[rtprod]

I saw it again and liked it much better the second time.  However, I do think the scene at the end of the credits is beyond silly, one of those reversals that calls into question every single thing you've seen for three films. 

Could have easily done without that little "twist."

[starboardlight]

I saw it again and liked it much better the second time.  However, I do think the scene at the end of the credits is beyond silly, one of those reversals that calls into question every single thing you've seen for three films. 

Could have easily done without that little "twist."

i did go "whoa!" when I first saw it, but my overly geeky mind went into over time. Within the framework of the mutant universe, would Charles become just a man in that body. The mutant powers exist because of their genetics, their mutant dna. That means their power is bound to their particular body. When a mind transfer happens (assuming it could) Xavier's power would still be bound to his old body, wouldn't it? And would he still be Charles?

For me, I loved the philosophical questions that were explored in the comics, and enjoyed some of it in the first two. I felt like this last one, only touch on them without an real exploration. The idea of identity is import, but what happens when part of that identity is altered/suppressed. The "cure" has such a huge philosophic implication, and the film did nothing with that. For example, people who are bipolar struggle with the fact that taking medication suppress some of their mental acuity. They feel like they're in a fog all the time and don't feel like themselves. They feel like the medication takes away some of their identity. The "cure" in the X-men take that to a whole other level.

And the same question is also touched upon, with Jean/Pheonix. If Pheonix is a suppressed part of Jean, then is Jean also only a part of her whole, and not fully who she is? I would have loved to see Jean struggle with Pheonix more. I was hoping that like the comics, Jean finally does win out in that struggle, takes control of her body and her powers, but in an act of self sacrifice, destroys herself to prevent a cosmic disaster that Pheonix had started. I would have loved for her death to be more proactive and meaningful than it was.

[delalluvia]

The part with Eric at the chessboard at the end was poignant...until you saw what he was doing.


SPOILERS!!!!  SPOILERS!!!!!!!  SPOILERS!!!!!!!!
Then, as a friend of mine said, if true, doesn't that pretty much negate the entire movie?  That there was really no cure?

[JCinNYC2006]

i did go "whoa!" when I first saw it, but my overly geeky mind went into over time. Within the framework of the mutant universe, would Charles become just a man in that body. The mutant powers exist because of their genetics, their mutant dna. That means their power is bound to their particular body. When a mind transfer happens (assuming it could) Xavier's power would still be bound to his old body, wouldn't it? And would he still be Charles?

Wow, I hadn't even considered that.  I suppose it's possible that when the next movie comes (not 'if' anymore, considering the grosses this weekend), they may be  able to restore his powers and explain it somehow.  After seeing it on Thursday with a friend who is totally X-Men naive, I explained to her how Jean became Phoenix, died, and then came back yet again.  I had to laugh at how implausible it sounded even in the books.  So even as a hardcore fan from way back (I remember buying and reading X-Men 101 when Phoenix was introduced!), I came to accept that the movies and the comics won't always be orthodox in sharing origins, characterizations, or relationships, and to hope for the films to resonate in some way like the comics did for me.

For me, I loved the philosophical questions that were explored in the comics, and enjoyed some of it in the first two. I felt like this last one, only touch on them without an real exploration. The idea of identity is import, but what happens when part of that identity is altered/suppressed. The "cure" has such a huge philosophic implication, and the film did nothing with that. For example, people who are bipolar struggle with the fact that taking medication suppress some of their mental acuity. They feel like they're in a fog all the time and don't feel like themselves. They feel like the medication takes away some of their identity. The "cure" in the X-men take that to a whole other level.

I hear you on how the movie didn't fully explore the ramifications of the cure on how those who took it felt about themselves afterwards. Rogue coming back to the mansion afterwards was touching to me because she could have seen herself as no longer "belonging", and it would have been interesting to see how Bobby and the other folks related to her long term.  I don't really follow the analogy of curing mutants with medicating people with mental illness.  Incorporating those symptoms into one's identity could be seen as part of the pathology.  I think a closer analogy would be the research to cure deafness or change sexual orientation.

And the same question is also touched upon, with Jean/Pheonix. If Pheonix is a suppressed part of Jean, then is Jean also only a part of her whole, and not fully who she is? I would have loved to see Jean struggle with Pheonix more. I was hoping that like the comics, Jean finally does win out in that struggle, takes control of her body and her powers, but in an act of self sacrifice, destroys herself to prevent a cosmic disaster that Pheonix had started. I would have loved for her death to be more proactive and meaningful than it was.

I agree here totally.  Ratner could have had Jean have more of an internal conflict going on while Magneto is leading the troops, instead of basically standing off to the side looking blank.  Man I still remember in X-Men 137 right before the self-sacrifice sequence, where she and Cyclops make a last stand.  The captions read something like, "They were young.  They were in love.  They heroes.  Today they will prove it beyond all shadow of a doubt".  Woof, gives me goosebumps just thinking about it.  Aaaaah comic book nerd flashbacks!

Juan

[starboardlight]

I hear you on how the movie didn't fully explore the ramifications of the cure on how those who took it felt about themselves afterwards. Rogue coming back to the mansion afterwards was touching to me because she could have seen herself as no longer "belonging", and it would have been interesting to see how Bobby and the other folks related to her long term.  I don't really follow the analogy of curing mutants with medicating people with mental illness.  Incorporating those symptoms into one's identity could be seen as part of the pathology.  I think a closer analogy would be the research to cure deafness or change sexual orientation.

I'm not so much comparing "the cure" with the treatment for bipolar disorder, but rather was pointing out that in that treatment, the side effect takes away something from those being treated. They feel like they're in a mental fog all the time and express a feeling like they've lost a part of themselves. On a human level, it's an complex issue, and definitely one worth exploring. They have to give up a part of their identity in order to fit into our world. That's a parallel on some level with the film. In any case, it's just one example of many that can be drawn from.

[JCinNYC2006]

I'm not so much comparing "the cure" with the treatment for bipolar disorder, but rather was pointing out that in that treatment, the side effect takes away something from those being treated. They feel like they're in a mental fog all the time and express a feeling like they've lost a part of themselves. On a human level, it's an complex issue, and definitely one worth exploring. They have to give up a part of their identity in order to fit into our world. That's a parallel on some level with the film. In any case, it's just one example of many that can be drawn from.

I see what you mean.  Even though the cure is for the condition, it can still be experienced as cutting off something that one sees as part of their identity.  In the case of mental illness, my instinct is to say that feeling that loss of a part of themselves is positive, something to be worked through, rather than holding on to the pathology.  Giving up that part is one's identity so one can be accepted or fit in...in a way it's like making choices about what one is willing to give up or change.  Very good point there.

Juan

[kirkmusic]

*SPOILERS*
I was stunned that Jean killed Scott...that came out of left field for me. 

SPOILERS HERE TOO

Deaths that aren't is an onrunning theme in the X-men comics.  We saw after the credits that Charles found his way back.  We didn't actually see Jean kill Scott.  For all we know he could be preserved in a coccoon at the bottom of the lake or something.  As they say about villians, if there's no body, they'll be back.

It was cool seeing Kitty and Colossus as part of the field team.  If Nightcrawler had stuck around that would have been the whole core of the post-Phoenix comics team (incl. Storm and Wolverine).