Author Topic: Why the Lie?  (Read 52353 times)

Offline opinionista

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2006, 06:13:45 pm »
It's funny because, apparently, Jack doesn't tell Lureen either, except that is his favorite place. He never says what he did there or where it was. Obviously Jack wasn't goint to tell her about all the sex he had up there with Ennis, but could've told her about the job herding sheep, no? I don't understand either why the lie.
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. -Mark Twain.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2006, 08:41:31 pm »
Tar-spreading scene: The guy Ennis is working with reminds Ennis in a negative way of Jack (he's neither cute nor fun), and also of how Ennis himself could very well wind up in 20 years. Ennis is wearing a blue plaid shirt (Jack's colors). The big clue is the other guy says something like "the wife said I would break my back working blah blah blah" and it's those words that trigger Ennis to stand up and look wistfully off to one side into the distance, as he always does when thinking of Jack.

WOW!!!  I love this.  It's something I've never considered before either.  I missed and/or forgot about this discussion from the old board too.  By the way, the "he's neither cute nor fun" comment just made me laugh so hard that my cat woke up from her nap and looked at me with great alarm.

Penthesilea, this is also brilliant.  It answers the question really well.
Quote
So it would have been normal/usual to share at least some stories about what happened during the months they were apart. Even for taciturn Ennis. I'm sure Alma asked him about it. And it would have been natural to tell your fiancee about your coworker/compagnion, especially if you refer to him later as a friend. But Ennis didn't do this.
So Brokeback dropped out as possible explanation for who Jack was.

It is really interesting that both Ennis and Jack never mentioned the fact that they were on Brokeback together that summer to there respective wives.  Maybe this has something to do with Ang Lee's statement that he sees their relationship as "something private and precious and they cannot articulate..."  Primarily here both Ennis and Jack (on their own) make gestures to keep the circumstances of their summer as private as possible to preserve the precious feeling about it. (Try saying the last half of that sentence 10 times fast. lol).  So, clearly they can't articulate anything about this for a huge number of reasons (either to their wives or in their own heads often)... and all of this emerges in the form of Ennis's little lie. "We were fishing buddies."  It's amazing how something so seemingly simple can become sooo complex.

Awesome contributions to this thread everybody!  Thanks!
the world was asleep to our latent fuss - bowie

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2006, 03:14:05 pm »
Thanks for liking my idea, Amanda.

Quote
Maybe this has something to do with Ang Lee's statement that he sees their relationship as "something private and precious and they cannot articulate..." 

Yep. And I hear the words from the trailer: . "It was a friendship.......that became a secret...."
Not only their relationship became a secret, but the whole summer.

So secret they didn't want anybody to know the least tiny bit about that summer.
I guess for more than one reason:
- to avoid further questions ("How was your coworker? Was he a nice guy? Did he share work equitable with you? Where's he from? blah, blah, blah...)
- out of paranoia (at least Ennis, the guy who asks Jack 20 years later: "You ever get the feelin', I don't know, when you're in town and someone looks at you, suspicious... like he knows.")
- to keep those memories precious and all by themselves (what Ang Lee said, and this is certainly a BIG reason)
- to be able to pretend to themselves that nothing had happened respectively trying to forget about it

And I don't think the last two aspects are contradictory. Well they are, but people's feelings are contradictory, too.

Offline serious crayons

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2006, 05:05:45 pm »
WOW!!!  I love this.  It's something I've never considered before either.  I missed and/or forgot about this discussion from the old board too.  By the way, the "he's neither cute nor fun" comment just made me laugh so hard that my cat woke up from her nap and looked at me with great alarm.

I love it too, and since for once I can actually remember someone to credit, let me add that it was Casey Cornelius' thread. (I think starboardlight may have participated also.) I was so blown away by it because it was still fairly early in my Brokeback career. Before that, I had seen that tar-spreading scene as pretty much just a quick way to what kind of jobs Ennis was taking over the years. And when they started pointing to all the little clues about what this or that meant, I felt like a whole new world was opening up (and like my time on the board should qualify me for a graduate degree in film studies!).

By the way, I remember one funny line from that discussion. This time I can't remember who said it (maybe jshane?) but anyway. Someone said Ennis was probably thinking about Jack when he stared off into the distance, and the other person said, "Are you kidding? I'M thinking about Jack when I stare off into the distance. There's no doubt he is!"
« Last Edit: May 27, 2006, 05:12:21 pm by latjoreme »

tiawahcowboy

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2006, 05:45:58 pm »
When she mentioned the post card (in the movie), Alma asked Ennis this about Jack, "Is he somebody you cowboyed with or what?

While he was looking at the post card, Ennis answered, "No, Jack, he rodeos, mostly. We was fishin' buddies!"

In the west, to "cowboy" is also a verb, meaning to "do the work of a cowboy."

I think that it could have been possible that Ennis never told Alma that he had herded sheep on Brokeback Mountain in the summer of 1964.

One has to consider the fact that in the West, including Wyoming (and also in the case of screenplay writer Larry McMurtry's home state of Texas), a "real" cowboy would never admit that he had ever worked with sheep in the first place.

I would say that Ennis is sort of a double-thinker (or did double-speak), he added the part about "fishin' buddies" since Alma probably knew that Ennis had participated in rodeos; because he certainly would not say, "We was sheep herdin' buddies!"

« Last Edit: May 27, 2006, 06:08:24 pm by tiawahcowboy »

Offline David

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2006, 05:59:24 pm »
Considering that Ennis kept Jack a secret from Alma until the postcard arrived,  I'd have thought Ennis would have had another panic attack after seeing that postcard!   He probably walked into the bathroom and threw up he was so nervous!   

Remember, in the story he tells Jack:" it took a year for me to figure out I shouldn't have let you out of my sight".    I wish he said that in the movie because it really tells us that he now knew Jack was his true love.  Alma was secondary.


tiawahcowboy

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2006, 06:15:52 pm »
I would say the reason that Ennis rushed out of the kitchen was to go change out of his work clothes. He not only changed his shirt, he switch cowboy hats. When drove in from work, he was wearing a felt hat; but, at the post office in the very next scene, he was wearing a straw cowboy hat, sort of a "Shady Brady" style.

Offline Penthesilea

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2006, 06:45:00 pm »
Quote
I'd have thought Ennis would have had another panic attack after seeing that postcard!   He probably walked into the bathroom and threw up he was so nervous!   

 ;D I can't help but laugh. I've read someone else suggesting Ennis was heading for the bathroom for doing something comletely different. Something way more enjoyable than throwing up  ;D "wrang it out", ya know  ;)

Please don't get me wrong. I don't laugh neither about your idea nor about the other one. But about the fact that both ideas about what Ennis might do are completly opposite.
Okay, it's late here and I'm a bit goofy: I imagine Ennis standing in the bathroom, singing a counting-out rhyme to find his descicion what to do  ;D Okay, maybe I'm more than a bit goofy. Time to go to bed: N8, folks!


tiawahcowboy

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2006, 09:03:46 pm »
;D I can't help but laugh. I've read someone else suggesting Ennis was heading for the bathroom for doing something comletely different. Something way more enjoyable than throwing up  ;D "wrang it out", ya know  ;)

Please don't get me wrong. I don't laugh neither about your idea nor about the other one. But about the fact that both ideas about what Ennis might do are completly opposite.
Okay, it's late here and I'm a bit goofy: I imagine Ennis standing in the bathroom, singing a counting-out rhyme to find his descicion what to do  ;D Okay, maybe I'm more than a bit goofy. Time to go to bed: N8, folks!

To "wring" and to "wring out" (or as Ennis says in past tense "wrang it out)," is the act of trying squeeze out an answer to why something happens which seems to have no answer. The expression has no connection with masturbation.

http://ca.encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861714245/wring.html

wring [ ring ]


transitive verb  (past wrung [ rung ], past participle wrung, present participle wring·ing, 3rd person present singular wrings)
 
Definition:
 
1. twist and compress something: to twist and compress something in order to force liquid out of it
Wring the towel out and hang it up to dry.

 
2. force out liquid by twisting: to force liquid out of something by twisting and compressing it

 
3. extract something with difficulty: to extract something from somebody with great difficulty
finally managed to wring an answer out of him

 
4. twist something forcibly and painfully: to twist something such as an animal's neck forcefully, usually causing pain or death

 
5. cause distress: to cause somebody emotional pain and distress

 

noun  (plural wrings [ rung ])
 
Definition:
 
twist given to wet material: a twist or squeeze given to wet material in order to force out water or other liquid

 
[ Old English wringen < Germanic]

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Why the Lie?
« Reply #19 on: May 27, 2006, 10:12:52 pm »
To "wring" and to "wring out" (or as Ennis says in past tense "wrang it out)," is the act of trying squeeze out an answer to why something happens which seems to have no answer. The expression has no connection with masturbation.

http://ca.encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861714245/wring.html

wring [ ring ]
 
Definition:
 
1. twist and compress something: to twist and compress something in order to force liquid out of it

This definition most certainly can be analogous to masturbation.  Whether the word is supposed to mean it or not.  Especially as in 1962, Alma was still doing laundry, where you would 'wring out' the laundry to squeeze out the excess water.  An action Ennis is most certainly familiar with.