Atheists: Come out, come out, wherever you are

[ednbarby]

It really astounds me that so many people assume that a world without a deity would necessarily be meaningless. I think the universe is amazing -- stars, planets, gravity, quantum mechanics, evolution, plate tectonics... it's just so cool. And randomness... just calling all that "randomness" oversimplifies it.

I don't need to believe in some celestial busy-body in order to experience awe.

So, count me as a proud atheist, too.

Hear, hear.  Really, the very randomness of it is what's so miraculous to me.  That we all came to be here in this place and time as the result of a random explosion billions of years ago never ceases to amaze me.  I find that much more awe-inspiring than the thought of some all-knowing, all-powerful being who looks like a giant version of Santa Claus floating around on a celestial cloud, watching us all and pulling the strings.  And I wonder at the thought of being made up of the very stuff that makes up the stars.  That's heaven to me - I'm already there.

[vkm91941]

It's terrifying that fundamentalists, whether christians or muslims,  have control of the button to launch nuclear weapons, or soon will.  In their belief system, to launch a nuclear war is a rational act...  they get to be harp-playing angels  that much sooner!  I'd much rather have an atheist in control of that button, wouldn't you?

I'll start by saying that I am not an atheist but that I have great respect for all the views shared on this thread.  Now to my reason for posting, re the above quote, I don't care what the spiritual or religious persuasions of the person in charge of that firing mechanism is as long he or she is a balanced and rational individual with a secure sense of self and a profound love for his fellowman and this earth we all share.  Otherwise heaven or providence help us all

[Lynne]

Impish -  Thank you for starting this discussion.  I think it is a terrific thread and the responses have been outstanding.

For myself, I tend to waffle between agnostic and atheist depending on my mood.  On the subject of bumper stickers, I once saw one that appealed to me:  "Militant Agnostic:  I Don't Know and Neither Do You."   

You're right, though, about these being typically 'closeted' opinions, especially in the rural area I now inhabit. (I've found urban areas to be quite a bit different.)  I think much might be accomplished if people were more open about their thoughts.  I see the issue as intertwined with those of gay rights because, typically, the most vocal opponents of gay rights are also the most outspoken evangelicals.  That person who said Americans have freedom of religion, but not freedom from religion was right-on.  I believe that maintaining separation of church and state has to be of paramount importance in this country. 

I've been thinking about why I waffle and I think it boils down to a couple of things.

First, I am a scientist by vocation and avocation, and I find mythology in any form as an insufficient and unsatisfying way to explain what is not understood.  It's completely understandable for mankind to look for these answers in religion, and has been since the dawn of time, but religion does not provide me with satisfactory answers.  Still, I label myself 'agnostic' because I have this inherent resistance to telling other people that I think they are 'wrong'.  And anytime I say 'I don't believe in God' to someone I know does believe, I feel like I'm criticizing their own personal choice.

That said, I wish most of these people would afford me the same courtesy.  This subject comes up all the time with a friend I've had for years and I've finally just had to terminate all discussion by saying, 'It find it insulting that you don't trust and respect me to make my own decisions in this.'  And I repeat as often as necessary.

Secondly, Another reason that I don't want to reject 'faith' outright is because I do believe in the existence of other ideals that are intangible.  Just because this is one that I haven't felt personally, I don't want to reject or undermine others' experiences.  Hope, love, charity, etc...I have firsthand experience with...so who am I to tell someone else that because I haven't had some experience with faith that it doesn't exist?

This post has become too long, so I'll end it here...wonderful opinions by all here..Thanks again, Impish.

-Lynne

[Aussie Chris]

I'll start by saying that I am not an atheist but that I have great respect for all the views shared on this thread.  Now to my reason for posting, re the above quote, I don't care what the spiritual or religious persuasions of the person in charge of that firing mechanism is as long he or she is a balanced and rational individual with a secure sense of self and a profound love for his fellowman and this earth we all share.  Otherwise heaven or providence help us all

I with Vic here, in both my non-atheist persuasion but also my tolerance for world leaders believing in whatever they want as long as their decisions are made with the betterment of humanity in mind.  Unfortunately, I fear that no one meets that criteria, so I also send "good thoughts and best wishes into the ether" (notice I didn't say pray) and hope that world's leaders remain well rested and well fed, but not bored because we know about idle hands now don't we.  That's right, they perform "random acts of naughtiness" (as opposed to devil's work).

[TOoP/Bruce]

Anyway, if you don't believe in gods either -- or if you consider yourself agnostic -- I encourage you to come out of the closet, letting those around you know your beliefs.  It's important to increase  our visibility, and to let others know that there is moral behavior without it being caused by fear of a god.

Cheers!   

Another non-believer here. 

What sort of morality do you really have if the only reason you do "God's will" is to buy real estate in heaven?  Give me a break... 

[Sheyne]

My mum thinks its "terrifying" that I choose not to live my life as a Christian. And to that I asked her: "what is a Christian?" And the blank look I got really amused me. My mum doesn't attend church, save for Christmas Day (which is so "token", if you ask me and she gets rather shitty when I point this out) and her only reason for calling herself a Christian is that a) she believes in Jesus and God; b) she has read the bible; c) approximately 55% of her time, she tries to do right by other people. (the other 45% she's a nasty nagging bitch).

So is she a Christian?  I don't know.

But she's never stopped trying to get me to believe in God. If my son does something new (even if I've have spent months slogging away in my efforts to get him to do so), its "God's influence" that has contributed to his development. Give me an effing break.

I have been almost mugged twice in my life. I say "almost" cause my knowledge of taekwondo got me out of both situations without being hurt. Yet, despite having run-ins with those drugged-crazed, knife-wielding maniacs, the scariest person I ever met in my whole life was this 30 year old leech who latched onto me at my first - and subsequently only - ballroom dancing class around 12 years ago. Turns out she was a Jehovah's Witness. Now I met this girl for one night only and I didn't know ANYBODY else in that room. Yet this girl tracked down my phone number - somehow - and my address and for nearly 2 months, pestered me to join her church. She phoned 2 or 3 times weekly. She sent pamphlets, timetables and all sorts of other shit to MY HOME. And it wasn't until I threatened to call the cops and get a restraining order against her that she desisted.

Faith is one thing. Allowing it to cloud your rationality is another thing entirely.

[ednbarby]

I hear you, Sheyne.  Some of the worst people I know call themselves Christians.  (Some of the best, too, of course.)  And some of the best Christians I know are atheists.

[isabelle]

Put it this way: find me ONE religion that has humor, and I'll join in an eye-blink!

[nakymaton]

Still, I label myself 'agnostic' because I have this inherent resistance to telling other people that I think they are 'wrong'.  And anytime I say 'I don't believe in God' to someone I know does believe, I feel like I'm criticizing their own personal choice.

That's a really good point, and I usually describe myself as "agnostic" (or more often, simply avoid saying anything about my own religious beliefs or non-beliefs) because I feel that way too. (I'm a scientist, too, and I don't particularly want people to try to prove the existence of a deity through science. I think there are some things that science simply doesn't have anything to say about -- I wouldn't want people to assess beauty through scientific tests, for instance.) I don't mind other people's faith. I've known a number of people who get a great deal of joy and strength from their faith, and who use tenets such as "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" to guide their lives, and who are really wonderful people to be around. And they could almost sell me on religion, with the examples that they set. But I've known wonderful people who are atheists, as well; I don't think that religion is the only thing that can guide people to be genuinely good.

But when it comes down to it, I'm not really uncertain, not in my own personal beliefs. Perhaps "tolerant atheist" would be a better label for me? Still, I get tired of people offering me eternal life (as if there isn't something really, really cool about having my atoms get used by a tree or a bug or a volcano or something), or telling me that "everything happens for a reason" (and not meaning that the reason has to do with gravity or climate change or plate tectonics or lots of people being mean to each other).

[ednbarby]

I called myself an agnostic for years, telling myself that there was a part of me that felt a pull to something bigger than myself that I just couldn't shake.  But I came to realize last year that for me, that something was my own fear.  My own fear at being disowned by society.  All those years of having Christianity ingrained in and etched upon me had taken a toll, I guess.  It took realizing that that same society had disowned their own countrymen and women after Katrina last year to make me see that I truly don't care what they think of my lack of faith anymore.

I respect those of you who are tolerant of others' religious beliefs very much.  I am, too, until they try to sell me on them.  I've always seen religious beliefs (or lack thereof) as being personal and private and nobody's business but our own.  But I think the current administration in this country has only served to empower those who think it's their right not only to know about, but to convert, us heathens.  I find them coming at me from every direction about it, now, and I'm tired of it.  I don't think those who have faith are wrong.  OK, secretly, I think they are.  But I don't know they are.  But I do know that for me, as far as I am concerned, there is no God.  As hard as it was for me to finally come to that last year, I found that once I had fully accepted it in myself and was no longer willing to back down about it when backed into the proverbial wall for the sake of being accepted by others, I had peace of mind.