The Names

[Gabreya]

This may have been talked about before here but please bare with me on this. Oh, and this was once mentioned on the IMDb site for this movie. Unfortunately, it's no longer there. Oh, well.
Okay, now we all know that Ennis and Jack have some last names that are pretty wierd:Del Mar and Twist. I'm not trying to make fun of our boys, I'm just saying. Their last names are unusual. But, they may have some importance to the story.

I'm a dictionary bookworm and I read various Webster dictionaries at home and at school.
I've read that mar means damage, hurt, injure, disfigure, impair, etc. Also, in it, twist means bend, distort, deflect, interweave, etc. It was mentioned that the del word means lonely.
If you guys'll notice, the words mar and twist together means destruction and disaster. With those words together, they seem to imply the story's outcome of the two main characters' lives. It was said at IMDb that their last names seemed to describe their personalities. Del Mar seems to describe Ennis as very lonely and introverted while Twist displayed Jack as crazy and boistrous. And their was a debate where Annie Proulx used those names for her characters to show how they are and 'forshadowing' their fate. And their first names are really no different. Jack is a ver common name for a guy who has a strong exterior. Not that I'm saying that Ennis doesn't have a strong exterior. Jack is a typical name for someone who's manly and daring. For Ennis, his name is a little bit rare. His name is something that's more country and rather soft-like.

By the way, ironically, Heath and Jake's last names are pretty unique as well. Again, I'm not making fun of our beautiful boys. See, Ledger and Gyllenhaal are names you wouldn't normally hear everyday. Well, both of them have different heritages. These two actors have names that are very intricate, but in a good way.


Any thoughts about either of the names?

[Front-Ranger]

I am certainly not a linguist but for me the name Del Mar means "from (or of) the sea" and has the same roots as the words marine, Mary, maritime, etc. The word Twist connotes to me the gyrations that a bullrider goes thru trying to stay on the bull, and also the twisted old pines on top of Brokenback Mountain. Twist also seems to me to be a combination of "try" and "wish" and Annie Proulx said that she liked names that are an amalgam of other words, as well as wordplay.

The names Ledger and Gyllenhaal seem to be opposites in several different ways. Gyllenhaal is a playful sounding name with lots of vowels; Ledger is a solid sounding name with more consonants.

[Brown Eyes]

I love the topic of their names!  So poetic.

Gabreya, I think you're right on to notice that both the names have English connotations that imply something beyond the norm.

That "mar" means "damaged", "injured" or "disfigured"... just seems so powerful and important to Ennis in terms of his inner turmoil and the psychological damage he suffered as a child (exposed to the murder by his father).

I agee with Lee too, that the "del Mar" as in the sea... is equally important... and seems to play into a lot of imagery in the film.  A lot of times I've heard his whole name, Ennis del Mar... interpreted as meaning "island in the sea."

In any case his name is certainly multi-layered with complex meaning.

And, as far as "Twist" goes, that's also such a complex name.  I love reading all the zillions of different dictionary definitions of that word (and there are tons if you look at a big dictionary like the Oxford English Dictionary).  Again, very multi-layered in terms of positive and negative connotations.

I do recall Proulx saying somewhere that she was specifically thinking about a rodeo (bull-riding) term in naming him "Twist."

[Gabreya]

Thanks, atz75. Yeah. I always knew that del mar was like a lonely sea. I read that somewhere in a new Webster dictionary at school. I've read any kinds of dictionaries known to man. They're names are very complex.

Say, Front-Ranger, what did you mean about the vowels and consonants of the actors last names?
Also, if you don't mind me asking, what other way or ways are the names different(even though they totally are)? I don't a whole lot about their last names.

[Front-Ranger]

I don't know a whole lot about the names Gyllenhaal and Ledger. I'll bet you could find out a lot by checking the Heath! Heath! Heath! or the Jake! Jake! Jake! threads.

oregondoggie sent some information about the name Ennis and here it is:

Today, happened to look at The Sheridan, Wyo., County Tour Guide (2006).  In it the Bozeman Trail Gallery has a full page ad that includes a pen and ink drawing of an aged cowboy named "Old Man Ennis", an original illustration by Edward Borein (1872-1945) for a book called "The Phantom Bull".   Google indicates that Ennis ranched in the Madison Valley in Montana.  In fact, there is a town there now called Ennis, almost certainly named after him.

[Front-Ranger]

Very interesting...

Say, I just had an epiphany...or maybe you could call it an epiphAnnie!

Take the final "s" off of Ennis, and Enni sounds and looks much like...Annie!!

[optom3]

One of the most famous literary Twists, is Oliver Twist in the Dickens novel. I wonder if there is a connection here.Dickens uses the novel to mock the hypocrisies of the time,particularly the poor law,which said, that all poor people must work in workhouses.
Why, it is hardly their fault that they are poor.
The S.S in effect challenges us to examine some of the hypocrisy of our time.It is O.K to go and kill in wars at a very young age and yet love between same sex is wrong.Why it is hardly their fault that they love as they do.
In fact most would probably wish to live as heterosexual,just as the poor would wish to live as rich.If for no other reason Than it is easier.
So war is O.K and love is not
Also Oliver in all films, is cast as a winsome child,with big pleading eyes and the childish belief that it will all work out.He is of course a child.That reminds me of some one else.Jack maybe an adult but he still holds that same chidish innocence that it will all work out.

Proulx is obviously a very well read author and I wonder if the name Twist may have been inspired by Dickens' Twist,
There really do seem to be some parallels,particularly the challenge of long held,unfair and outdated beliefs by the masses,which result in marginalisation of the few.Those who hold themselves up as the moral arbitrators,of the few.Back in Dickens time,the rich judged the poor.Today the right wing moral so called Christians judge homosexuality.

Of course one difference is that Oliver gets his happy ending,Jack does not.
Also the poor law was eradicated,
 and yet still gay hatred and inequality continues.So looked at in those terms we as humans have regressed.
At least all those years ago the injustice was finally righted.We are still waiting for that to happen with this issue.In other words how far have we really come?
Both stories seem to be tales of moral judgenent of the few by the self righteous many, hardship etc so maybe that is where Twist comes from.

[Gabreya]

One of the most famous literary Twists, is Oliver Twist in the Dickens novel. I wonder if there is a connection here.Dickens uses the novel to mock the hypocrisies of the time,particularly the poor law,which said, that all poor people must work in workhouses.
Why, it is hardly their fault that they are poor.
The S.S in effect challenges us to examine some of the hypocrisy of our time.It is O.K to go and kill in wars at a very young age and yet love between same sex is wrong.Why it is hardly their fault that they love as they do.
In fact most would probably wish to live as heterosexual,just as the poor would wish to live as rich.If for no other reason Than it is easier.
So war is O.K and love is not
Also Oliver in all films, is cast as a winsome child,with big pleading eyes and the childish belief that it will all work out.He is of course a child.That reminds me of some one else.Jack maybe an adult but he still holds that same chidish innocence that it will all work out.

Proulx is obviously a very well read author and I wonder if the name Twist may have been inspired by Dickens' Twist,
There really do seem to be some parallels,particularly the challenge of long held,unfair and outdated beliefs by the masses,which result in marginalisation of the few.Those who hold themselves up as the moral arbitrators,of the few.Back in Dickens time,the rich judged the poor.Today the right wing moral so called Christians judge homosexuality.

Of course one difference is that Oliver gets his happy ending,Jack does not.
Also the poor law was eradicated,
 and yet still gay hatred and inequality continues.So looked at in those terms we as humans have regressed.
At least all those years ago the injustice was finally righted.We are still waiting for that to happen with this issue.In other words how far have we really come?
Both stories seem to be tales of moral judgenent of the few by the self righteous many, hardship etc so maybe that is where Twist comes from.

Cool.

[Front-Ranger]

There are several literary characters that Ennis and Jack remind me of. For instance, the narrator and Jeff in The Virginian. Also, the narrator and ?? (Kevin Kline  LOL) in William Saroyan's Sophie's Choice. Jack Keroac and Dean Moriarty in On the Road. Also, Ishmael and Ahab in Moby Dick.

[optom3]

There are several literary characters that Ennis and Jack remind me of. For instance, the narrator and Jeff in The Virginian. Also, the narrator and ?? (Kevin Kline  LOL) in William Saroyan's Sophie's Choice. Jack Keroac and Dean Moriarty in On the Road. Also, Ishmael and Ahab in Moby Dick.

Jack Keroac is such a good one,The book is a must read for most teens.Thanks for that reminder.

[Front-Ranger]

Jack Keroac is such a good one,The book is a must read for most teens.Thanks for that reminder.

Fiona and everyone, there's a discussion of On the Road here:

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,8941.0/all.html

I am currently listening to the book on CD, as read by Matt Dillon.

[optom3]

Fiona and everyone, there's a discussion of On the Road here:

http://bettermost.net/forum/index.php/topic,8941.0/all.html

I am currently listening to the book on CD, as read by Matt Dillon.

Reading your post brought back so many teenage memories that I nipped out to Barnes and noble and bought a copy.While I was there I also bought,the road to Wigan pier and down and out in Paris and london by Orwell,which I had read about the same time

[Artiste]

Very interesting posts and thread !!

[Artiste]

Front-Ranger, you say:
     The names Ledger and Gyllenhaal seem to be opposites in several different ways. Gyllenhaal is a playful sounding name with lots of vowels; Ledger is a solid sounding name with more consonants.
 
 
 
     
............

Front-Ranger, may I totally agree with you!

Maybe, it's likewise with the names Ennis Del Mar and Jack Twist; it seems to me that Jack was playing with the names Ennis Del Mar the first time he heard it  !!  ??

Au revoir,
hugs!

[Front-Ranger]

Front-Ranger, you say:
     The names Ledger and Gyllenhaal seem to be opposites in several different ways. Gyllenhaal is a playful sounding name with lots of vowels; Ledger is a solid sounding name with more consonants.
............

Front-Ranger, may I totally agree with you!

Maybe, it's likewise with the names Ennis Del Mar and Jack Twist; it seems to me that Jack was playing with the names Ennis Del Mar the first time he heard it  !!  ??

Good point, Artiste. Maybe it was a family trait...Old Man Twist seemed to be playing with Ennis' name too, but in an acrimonious way. "'Ennis Del Mar...Ennis Del Mar' he used a say. We gonna come  and whip this land into shape." (I'm paraphrasing here). Ennis seemed to be sensitive about his name. When he HAD to divulge his last name to Jack, he said DEL mar, instead of del MAR, as if trying to make it more manly and redneck. It is certainly easy to imagine Ennis as a boy being taunted on the playground about his first name!!

[Artiste]

Front-Ranger, you made my day !!

Wondered why Ennis was accenting DEL ?

Au revoir,
hugs!  Is that too in Annie's story?

[Shakesthecoffecan]

Twist could also be a reference to sexuality, in earlier times someone suspected to be homosexual would be called "Twisted" and sometime queerpeople would even refer to theirselves that way.

I think it interesting that Del Mar is a name of obvious Spanish origin, as is Aguirre, reflecting the settlement of the area as parts of the west as "New Spain" in the 1600s. Neither man would probably ever think of theirselves as anything but American.

[Artiste]

Wow, shakestheground, well said:
      Twist could also be a reference to sexuality, in earlier times someone suspected to be homosexual would be called "Twisted"       
............

Even some presidents (and others) of some countries to-day call us gays as mental, twisted, sick, etc.; unfortunately, since they are ignorant!

Much can be done for education yet ! And respect for human life, not seen in China, Iran, etc., for gays !!

Au revoir,
hugs!

[Gabreya]

I heard that Ennis and Jack's names are a bit of a logical and non-logical sense. It was once a discussion over at IMDb, as well. Someone had said that the name of Ennis something you wouldn't hear every day.
It's more of a small town, country boy-like name. The name of Jack sounds very common. It can be any guy's name. It's more of a strong, tough guy-type. Not that Ennis doesn't sound like it.

And also, someone said that few people would know a guy named Ennis but most people would probably know a guy named Jack. It sorta doesn't matter exactly where in this country but still, that seems to symbolize a little bit how Jack seemed more OUT THERE and Ennis is more INSIDE.

Any thoughts?

[Brown Eyes]

I heard that Ennis and Jack's names are a bit of a logical and non-logical sense. It was once a discussion over at IMDb, as well. Someone had said that the name of Ennis something you wouldn't hear every day.
It's more of a small town, country boy-like name. The name of Jack sounds very common. It can be any guy's name. It's more of a strong, tough guy-type. Not that Ennis doesn't sound like it.

And also, someone said that few people would know a guy named Ennis but most people would probably know a guy named Jack. It sorta doesn't matter exactly where in this country but still, that seems to symbolize a little bit how Jack seemed more OUT THERE and Ennis is more INSIDE.

Any thoughts?

Yes, I think there probably is something quite significant about the differences in the way the two names sound and the relative common-ness of the names.   It's certainly true that almost everyone knows someone named "Jack" or "John"... and Ennis even implies this in his response to Alma when she asks him if he "knows someone name of Jack".

I like your interpretation that this seems to imply that Jack is more immersed in society (by way of how his name functions in society) vs. the relatively unusual name of Ennis.  The name "Del Mar" also is in Spanish, while "Twist" is a straightforward English word.

In general I think the contrasts between their names is important.  It works well with the yin and yang nature of their personalities and relationship.

[Gabreya]

Yep. You're right about the Yin and Yang thing.

[Brown Eyes]

Well, it occurs to me that we've spent a lot of time here and in other threads thinking about all the implications of Jack and Ennis's names, but we probably haven't really thought as much about the other characters' names.

What do we make of the women's names?  Some of them have rather unusual names too.  I've never met or heard of anyone named Lureen before and LaShawn also seems rather unusual.  I wonder why those two characters were given uncommon names.  And, I think Cassie's last name - "Cartwright"- almost sounds like it might even be a metaphor or contain particular meaning.

Junior is interesting because of the complex gender associations with that word.  Most people upon hearing someone called simply "Junior" would probably assume the person was male.  I know that it's not entirely unheard of to name girls "Junior" after their mothers or other female relatives.  But, I don't think it's usually the immediate connotation of the word "Junior."  And, the only time we hear Ennis call her Alma is when he's proposing his formal toast to her engagement.  It's an interesting gender shift.  I also wonder if by naming this character after her mother, there's an implication that she's destined to follow the same relatively narrow path her mother took (getting married too young, staying close to home, etc.).

I'd also be interested to know what the name Alma means or what it's traditional associations are.

And, of course Jenny vs. Francine is an interesting question in itself.  Someone once suggested that the change to the name Jenny might be a subtle reference to one of Ang Lee's other films.  It's a very odd gesture I think.  Why bother re-naming a character when we know precisely what her name is in Proulx's story?


 

[mariez]

I believe Alma means "soul" in Spanish.  I'd have to ponder about all the various implications that could bring.  A google search tells me that the name also was probably inspired by Latin almus - "nourishing".  Even more to think about!

About the Jenny v. Francine - I can't remember where I just read it, but I thought someone said that Diana Ossana was asked about it at the recent screening and that she said it had something to do with not obtaining clearance to the name "Francine del Mar" ?   Maybe someone who was there remembers the particulars? 

Great questions, Amanda.  I'm going to think about them some more - especially the gender shift of "Junior."

Marie

[southendmd]

I remember a discussion like this, possibly on IMDb a long time ago.

Cassie:  from Cassandra, meaning "she who entangles men" in Greek.  In mythology, she made predictions that no one would believe.

Lureen:  to me, sounds like "she who lures".

Junior:  maybe Ennis wanted a son?

[mariez]

Junior:  maybe Ennis wanted a son?

Yeah, that's always been my initial reaction to the name - “I used a want a boy for a kid,” said Ennis, undoing buttons, “but just got little girls.”

But, somehow, I can't picture Ennis wanting to name a son after himself, even though it's a "traditional" thing to do.  It just seems a bit too egocentric for someone with such low self-esteem. 

The "Cassie" meaning is very interesting! 

Marie

[Gabreya]

This is what I came up with concerning the name, 'Jenny'. Of course, I haven't made it up but someone else had. And I figured out myself.

Look here:

Ennis  +  Jack  =  Jenny



Get it?

[Shakesthecoffecan]

This is what I came up with concerning the name, 'Jenny'. Of course, I haven't made it up but someone else had. And I figured out myself.

Look here:

Ennis  +  Jack  =  Jenny



Get it?

  Wow, noever thought of that before. 

[Front-Ranger]

Uncanny about Jack + Ennis = Jenny!

I like to think of Junior as Ennis' heir...the one who learned from his mistakes and got to have the sweet life. In many ways, her life paralleled his. She also took after him in many ways, such as his taciturnity, and his way of playing with the bottle when he wanted to avoid looking at the other person at the table, hehe. And Jenny was Jack ...especially the way she disappeared from the latter part of the movie. She was the one cradled in Ennis' arms...

[Gabreya]

I agree, Front-Ranger. Alma Jr. is like his heiress. Her personality and demeanor is just like her father's. Jenny will probably be like Jack:a little more of a free spirit and boistrous.

Btw, that scene where she was a baby in Ennis's arms was so sweet. Because she seemed like a calm baby while Junior was in need of attention. She was walking up to her dad, crying, and hugged his leg until he held her. Oh.
 
As for the 'Jenny' and how it relates to 'Ennis' and 'Jack', it only takes a few of the letters from those two names, plus one extra letter, to make up her name.

Look here again:

Ennis  +  Jack  (+  y)  = Jenny

[Penthesilea]

I'd also be interested to know what the name Alma means or what it's traditional associations are.

Alma means soul in Spanish.

Her maiden name:

Alma Beers.
Alma bears Ennis cheating on her
Alma bears living in financial difficult conditions.
Alma bears Ennis running off with Jack several times a year.
Alma bears missing social activities (like the church social).
Alma bears anal sex.
Alma bears a lot for a long time.

Till she can't bear it anymore and divorces Ennis.

[KristinDaBomb]

Wow I loved reading about all their names and what they might mean. Very interesting.

[mariez]

Alma means soul in Spanish.

Her maiden name:

Alma Beers.
Alma bears Ennis cheating on her
Alma bears living in financial difficult conditions.
Alma bears Ennis running off with Jack several times a year.
Alma bears missing social activities (like the church social).
Alma bears anal sex.
Alma bears a lot for a long time.

Till she can't bear it anymore and divorces Ennis.

I knew about "soul" but I'd never made the "Beers" and "bears" connection.  I especially like the way you structured that. Thanks, Chrissi! 

Marie

[Gabreya]

Did anyone analyze Laureen's last name, 'Newesome', yet? To me, the name seemed to sort of symbolize how she seem like a 'new' woman in her time.

What do you guys think?