Author Topic: Laugh with the Sinners or Cry with the Saints?  (Read 3449 times)

susiebk

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Laugh with the Sinners or Cry with the Saints?
« on: May 06, 2008, 10:08:16 am »

In the words of the great Billy Joel, would you rather laugh with the sinners or cry with the saints?  More simply put, do you feel the pull of "the dark side"?  I don't necessarily mean God and the Devil here, although that is a fine way to interpret this, just not my way.  I believe we all have an internal compass, that guides us and provides an innate sense of good and bad, right and wrong.  IMO, there are some larger truths that the majority of us understand (i.e. murder is wrong), but many others that are distinct for each person and help to define our uniqueness.  The source of this moral guidance system (God, human nature, cultural teachings, our individual upbringing) is debatable, and feel free to offer up your beliefs or opinions about this, but my real question is, are you sometimes or often, or have you ever been, tempted to give in to what you feel in your heart is wrong?  Is the attraction or pull there for you?  Do you sometimes wish to throw caution to the winds, sheep be damned, even when you know there will be hell to pay?


injest

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Re: Laugh with the Sinners or Cry with the Saints?
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2008, 11:38:13 pm »
I live pretty safely. Dont like taking chances.

sounds like you are trying to talk yourself into (or out of) something you know is not good for you... ;)

Offline Kerry

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Re: Laugh with the Sinners or Cry with the Saints?
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2008, 12:50:29 am »
To try to answer my own question, simply put ... yes.  There are times when the melancholy, darker side of life holds greater appeal than the sunny side, tragedy is more engaging than comedy (BBM being a case in point), happy endings seem contrived and unrealistic, and music in a minor key is more compelling.  IMO, great joy cannot be experienced without having known its counterpoint of deeply felt pain.

I have often wondered if this is just a quirk of my own personality or if it is a common way of being.  I live a pretty rosy life these days, but the temptation to blow the serenity all to hell just to shake it up and feel alive has never completely left me.  I know better than to go down that path because the road back to peace is hard won, but still the stray thoughts and momentary desires remain.

I know this is pretty vague, but what defines the darkness is different for everyone, and I don't want to limit with my suppositions.


All of what you said rings so true for me, Susie.

By nature, I am a mostly up-beat, positive kinda guy. And I don't have to work at it. It's just the way I am by nature.

However, having said that, I admire and look up to the tragic figures in history who died young, and I love sad music, "in a minor key" (Rachmaninov's Second Piano Concerto in C-Minor always has been my favourite piece of music - it was the first LP I ever purchased as a teenager and I still love it to this day).  From a very young age, I have been drawn to the likes of Chopin, Tchaikovsky, Caravaggio, Proust, Van Gogh, Alexander the Great, Beardsley, etc., etc., etc. Tragic figures, all.

I think a lot of this is to do with my being gay. For example, 5 of the 7 people cited above were gay. I gain comfort  and inspiration from inspirational gay personages, especially when there's an element of the tragic attached to their cult.

Regarding being personally drawn to the Dark Side on an intimate level, this has happened to me. Some years ago, when I broke-up with my partner and soul mate of many years standing, I found myself in a relationship with a very charismatic, handsome man. He was gorgeous in every sense of the word. He literally swept me off my feet, at a time in my life when I was very vulnerable. Everything about him was wonderful, including the sex, which was wild and imaginative. One of the things he liked to do, sexually, was to engage in dirty talk. I didn't have much experience of this and felt somewhat embarrassed about it (I was more comfortable doing it in the dark, so he couldn't see me blushing). But that wasn't the half of it. As our relationship progressed and he became more comfortable with me, he started to tell me more openly about his most intimate sexual fantasies, one of which shocked me to the core. I am not proud to confess that I not only participated in his sick fantasizing but also encouraged him. I've looked back and wondered why I did so. The only answer I can come up with is that I was vulnerable at the time and on the rebound from the break-up with my beloved soul mate. And I was also clearly seduced by his charm and physical beauty. I willingly played along with him for a while, as his fantasies became more and more intense and lurid. It came to a point where he wanted to make his fantasies reality and it was then that a little bell went off in my psyche and I put an end to the relationship. I was actually beginning to think that I shared his unusual sexual preference. Now I know I never did. I came close to being seduced by the Dark Side, but my inner moral compass directed me away from where he was trying to lead me.

I personally believe there are elements of the sinner and the saint in all of us. Wasn't it the Lord Buddha who preached the doctrine of the Middle Path? Moderation in all things is probably the most sound, attainable policy for we mere mortals.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2008, 10:40:46 pm by Kerry »
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Offline Artiste

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Re: Laugh with the Sinners or Cry with the Saints?
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2008, 10:29:12 pm »
Good thread subject !

I just wonder at times, if I am the ONLY one having any human values !

And I see other(s) that do too !!

And that makes me happy !!

Au revoir,
hugs!

Offline optom3

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Re: Laugh with the Sinners or Cry with the Saints?
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2008, 10:43:05 pm »
I can swing from one to another in the blink of an eye.I am repeatedly drawn to the darker side of my nature.I will even metaphorically speaking,feed it so that I can be truly deeply miserableor even bad.I can remember on occasions asking a guy I knew to take me to the most sleazy places he knew.Why,I have no idea.I guess I wanted to see how low I could go.
My music collection is 50/50 life is great I can rule the world versus life is in the words of the verve " a bitter sweet symphony.Whatever I am playing has to be loud though and it has to be really emotional,be that sad, or pounding rock.I also have the tendency at times to get really stuck on one particular track and quite happily could listen to it 100 plus times.
Whatever I do has to be 110%,even if I know it is wrong,and will come back to haunt me in the form of a major guilt trip.
I guess it is all about pushing boundaries.I even have thoughts of doing really stupid things which will completely wreck the life I have constructed for myself.
Never a dull moment as they say,my mum once said to me "don't you ever feel like taking life in the slow lane" I guess not.I do wish I did not keep pushing and pushing though,when I know I am heading for trouble.I am allegedly fairly intelligent,though you would not gues it from some of the things I do.
I do not know how much is the Bi polar and how much is just me.My brother is fairly similar,
 and my oldest son is like me but blown up and to the factor of about  1 million.Just today after he came back I heard him listening to this song about life is crap,put a bag on your head,suffocate.1 hour later he was listening to whole lotta love by Led Zeppelin.!!!!!!!!!!???????????????
So I do not think you are on your own Susie, but remember, I am a complete basket case!!!!!!!!!!!

Offline Artiste

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Re: Laugh with the Sinners or Cry with the Saints?
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2008, 10:51:01 pm »
Is this subject told by the great singer Arnold who just passed away ?

Offline delalluvia

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Re: Laugh with the Sinners or Cry with the Saints?
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2008, 02:22:45 pm »
In the words of the great Billy Joel, would you rather laugh with the sinners or cry with the saints?  More simply put, do you feel the pull of "the dark side"?  I don't necessarily mean God and the Devil here, although that is a fine way to interpret this, just not my way.  I believe we all have an internal compass, that guides us and provides an innate sense of good and bad, right and wrong.  IMO, there are some larger truths that the majority of us understand (i.e. murder is wrong), but many others that are distinct for each person and help to define our uniqueness.  The source of this moral guidance system (God, human nature, cultural teachings, our individual upbringing) is debatable, and feel free to offer up your beliefs or opinions about this, but my real question is, are you sometimes or often, or have you ever been, tempted to give in to what you feel in your heart is wrong?  Is the attraction or pull there for you?  Do you sometimes wish to throw caution to the winds, sheep be damned, even when you know there will be hell to pay?

Um, this is too black and white for me.  Just because one doesn't laugh with the sinners and explore their Dark Side doesn't necessarily by default make them saints.  There's a whoooooooooooooooooooooooole lot of gray area in between that most people fall into.  And it's a subjective thing as well.

One person's Dark Side exploration may involve criminal activity - drugs, mayhem -  while another person's Dark Side experience may mean lying to their mother so they can get out of a family function.

For me personally, no.  I think too much on the ramifications of my actions and usually decide prudence is the best course of action.

I saw some old comedy show on reruns a long time ago.  The girl character was having a nice dinner at home with a new boyfriend she hoped to make a lover.  However, a friend came to her rescue and exposed the boyfriend as a bedpost notching cad.  The girl was upset at the revelation, angry at her ex-boyfriend and herself and picked up a plate off the table to break it.  Her friend urged her to do so, to release her anger.  She shook her head tightly, put the plate back down and replied, "I can't.  It's Wedgewood."   :laugh: :laugh:

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Re: Laugh with the Sinners or Cry with the Saints?
« Reply #7 on: May 10, 2008, 03:42:02 pm »
Thanks for the laugh, del!! :) :). Wedgewood...

In my case, itks Royal Doulton ;).  I agree tho both about the extremes not really telling the story and fluctuating between extremes. I tend to have episodes of wallowing in guilt interspersed with 'irresponsible' behavior.  Southern mother, Catholic schools, inexhaustible thirst for *else*.  Conspiracy.
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