Author Topic: Why did Jacks' parents not go to his funeral ????  (Read 6387 times)

Offline optom3

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Why did Jacks' parents not go to his funeral ????
« on: May 19, 2008, 11:17:26 am »
This may have been discussed before,if so I apologise.
It occurred to me while posting on the confetti quiz,that I had not given any thought to this matter before.

Mrs.Twist obviously loved her son dearly,and even O.M.T in his way seemed to. So it seems strange that they did not attend the funeral of their only child.
I assume it was a pretty long drive for them,but even taking that into consideration it is odd.
Ennis has never been further than round a coffee pot,yet he drives all the way to the Twists' ranch,to see if they want Jack's wishes carried out.
So any ideas from anyone out there, would be welcomed.

Offline Lynne

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Re: Why did Jacks' parents not go to his funeral ????
« Reply #1 on: May 19, 2008, 11:26:43 am »
I have always thought this was another exanple of Jack's father having no respect nor affection for Jack.  You'll remember that OMT 'never once came to see (Jack) ride'.

I think Jack's mother would have wanted to attend desperately, but I doubt she hade much to say about it.

Sad topic, but a good one!
"Laß sein. Laß sein."

Offline Artiste

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Re: Why did Jacks' parents not go to his funeral ????
« Reply #2 on: May 19, 2008, 11:39:55 am »
Good subject optom !

At least, Mrs. Twist or Mr. Twist contacted twice Ennis and Jack's boss, when these mentioned 2 ranch hands were up on the mountain, remember ??

So, there must have been communications about Jack's funeral ?

Au revoir,
hugs!

Offline optom3

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Re: Why did Jacks' parents not go to his funeral ????
« Reply #3 on: May 19, 2008, 12:37:28 pm »
I have always thought this was another example of Jack's father having no respect nor affection for Jack.  You'll remember that OMT 'never once came to see (Jack) ride'.

I think Jack's mother would have wanted to attend desperately, but I doubt she had much to say about it.

Sad topic, but a good one!


I used to think Jack's father had nothing but contempt for him.These days I am not so sure.
I cannot decide whether the fact that he would have put up with Jack's idea of him and Ennis, or him and another guy living there to lick the ranch into shape,was a sign of some tolerance,or because he was so mean he would put up with anything to get his ranch in better shape.

If it was a sign of tolerance,then why not go to the funeral. Personally I think it must have been an indication of some tolerance. He does not strike me as the
sort of character who would put up with something that was completely abhorrant to him.

Even if he was completely disgusted by anything and everything about his son.Would he not go to the funeral, to dance on his grave? It all seems so strange.
He wants Jack's ashes at the ranch, now that could be to spite him, but there are some inconsistencies for me. He would have to be bordering on evil, to want Jack's ashes at the ranch and not on BBM just out of spite.
He is not a very likeable character, for sure ,but I don't think he is that wicked.So if he wants his ashes,why not go to the funeral as well.
Maybe I cannot reconcile myself to the possibility,that he is so thoroughly unpleasant, he would act out of spite even after his son's death.

Offline southendmd

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Re: Why did Jacks' parents not go to his funeral ????
« Reply #4 on: May 19, 2008, 12:43:47 pm »
I wonder if the OMT and Ma Twist ever saw their (only) grandson.

Perhaps he/they disapproved of his marriage with Lureen too.

Also, could be an issue of poverty--a trip to Texas could have been beyond their means.

A thought-provoking topic.  Thanks!

Offline optom3

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Re: Why did Jacks' parents not go to his funeral ????
« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2008, 12:53:07 pm »
I wonder if the OMT and Ma Twist ever saw their (only) grandson.

Perhaps he/they disapproved of his marriage with Lureen too.

Also, could be an issue of poverty--a trip to Texas could have been beyond their means.

A thought-provoking topic.  Thanks!

Another interesting point.
I suspect they probably didn't see their only grandson. I wonder just how many layers there are to this s.s. So much said and unsaid,in such a few pages.The more I think about it all,the more impressed I am with every aspect of the film and s.s.

Offline Lynne

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Re: Why did Jacks' parents not go to his funeral ????
« Reply #6 on: May 19, 2008, 01:01:37 pm »

I used to think Jack's father had nothing but contempt for him.These days I am not so sure.
I cannot decide whether the fact that he would have put up with Jack's idea of him and Ennis, or him and another guy living there to lick the ranch into shape,was a sign of some tolerance,or because he was so mean he would put up with anything to get his ranch in better shape.

If it was a sign of tolerance,then why not go to the funeral. Personally I think it must have been an indication of some tolerance. He does not strike me as the
sort of character who would put up with something that was completely abhorrant to him.

Even if he was completely disgusted by anything and everything about his son.Would he not go to the funeral, to dance on his grave? It all seems so strange.
He wants Jack's ashes at the ranch, now that could be to spite him, but there are some inconsistencies for me. He would have to be bordering on evil, to want Jack's ashes at the ranch and not on BBM just out of spite.
He is not a very likeable character, for sure ,but I don't think he is that wicked.So if he wants his ashes,why not go to the funeral as well.
Maybe I cannot reconcile myself to the possibility,that he is so thoroughly unpleasant, he would act out of spite even after his son's death.

I think it's interesting that you see the potential for some tolerance in Old Man Twist toward Jack.  When OMT is talking to Ennis about 'licking the ranch into shape' I have only been able to hear contempt for what he considered Jack's grand plans.  It has never occurred to me that OMT would have actually let it come to pass.  I think that Jack's dreamer nature made him a target for his father. My inability to see this is due in large part to reading the short story first.  I think that Annie Proulx narration about OMT p*ing on Jack illustrates their relationship starkly, and heart-wrenchingly, well.

Random thought - is this where McMurtry/Ossana got the cattlemen's conversation regarding Jack that Lureen overhears??  'P*ant used to ride the bulls'...

And, Paul, I think you're right on about the Twist's poverty.  I doubt they would have been financially able to travel to Texas, either to see their grandson, or to go to Jack's funeral.  And since we only are told about Jack coming up to Wyoming to see Ennis, there's no evidence that he brought Bobby to see his grandparents.  Part of me thinks (hopes) that Jack would have seen this as sparing Bobby his father's harshness.  After all, he already has one stud-duck grandfather to contend with.  (And don't forget in the short story, OMT is the stud-duck, not LD Newsome.)  Not being able to see her grandson seems to me to be another cruelty that Mrs. Twist had to endure at her husband's hands.
"Laß sein. Laß sein."

Offline optom3

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Re: Why did Jacks' parents not go to his funeral ????
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2008, 01:37:49 pm »
Lynne, I had the same problem as you initially.I read the s.s first and could see nothing but hate and contempt for his son,by OMT.Even wondering if there was something vaguely sexual in the urinating incident.
But as I kept reading and watching I started to have a slight shift in my thinking.

It also made me recall a real life incident. My first husband was gay.When he came out at the time of our divorce,his father was completely accepting.He to this day welcomes both his son and partner,when they come to stay.

His mother however,bizarely enough,disowned him from day one. In nearly 20 years she has never seen him,even slamming the door in his face when he attemted to visit her.Now this is a woman who used to love her son obsessively to the verge of something bordering on sexual./incestuous.
She hated me with a passion ,and the only time she was pleasant to me,was when she begged me not to divorce her son.In her mind, even I was better than him being gay.

That got me thinking,if O.MT really hated Jack that much,would he have even tolerated his visits on his own,which we know he did.Jack would go there once a year.Let alone him arriving and setting up with another man.
Like a lot of things with the s.s and film, I am never completely sure.Sometimes I change my mind several times over.It is one of the reasons I love it so much.
I just think deep down there was some sort of,not even affection but maybe acceptance/tolerance.

As normal I find myself going round in circles.

Offline Lynne

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Re: Why did Jacks' parents not go to his funeral ????
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2008, 01:48:38 pm »
Lynne, I had the same problem as you initially.I read the s.s first and could see nothing but hate and contempt for his son,by OMT.Even wondering if there was something vaguely sexual in the urinating incident.

I think you might be onto something.  It evokes for me Twist's need to dominate his family.

Quote
But as I kept reading and watching I started to have a slight shift in my thinking.

It also made me recall a real life incident. My first husband was gay.When he came out at the time of our divorce,his father was completely accepting.He to this day welcomes both his son and partner,when they come to stay.

His mother however,bizarely enough,disowned him from day one. In nearly 20 years she has never seen him,even slamming the door in his face when he attemted to visit her.Now this is a woman who used to love her son obsessively to the verge of something bordering on sexual./incestuous.
She hated me with a passion ,and the only time she was pleasant to me,was when she begged me not to divorce her son.In her mind, even I was better than him being gay.

That got me thinking,if O.MT really hated Jack that much,would he have even tolerated his visits on his own,which we know he did.Jack would go there once a year.Let alone him arriving and setting up with another man.

That is really interesting, Fiona.  Isn't it sad how many times people are rejected because they do not live up to someone else's expectations for them?  And the tragedy is so compounded when those expectations are coming from parents, ostensibly the people who are supposed to love you no matter what.  :-\ ???

Quote
Like a lot of things with the s.s and film, I am never completely sure.Sometimes I change my mind several times over.It is one of the reasons I love it so much.

Amen.  :)
"Laß sein. Laß sein."

Offline optom3

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Re: Why did Jacks' parents not go to his funeral ????
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2008, 02:05:09 pm »
Lynne,  yes it's very sad.I have 2 very well balanced kids in every way,In fact they are probably over blessed with looks,brains,talent etc.
Then I have my oldest son,who has all the problems in the world.Do I love him any less, certainly not,if anything I can tend to be too overprotective and forgiving of him.
Because of his numerous "mental" problems, he can be very cruel, particularly to me.He is however my son and I love him, even though I do not like some of the things he says or does.
I think O.M.T  is probably a much more complex character than at first would appear.
Proulx does not use one word unnecessarily. So I think every little word has meaning.