Author Topic: The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!  (Read 55316 times)

Offline Gabreya

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Re: The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!
« Reply #160 on: July 28, 2008, 12:15:28 am »

Oh no, you suffered from a computer virus too? I had one last week as well, and I had to renew EVERYTHING on it. It was pitiful. Well, we're glad you are up and running again, and I'm happy you enjoyed the TDK movie! :)


Yeah. It's hectic on renewing every thing on your computer's memory and software. Viruses are HORRIBLE!
And yes, TDK was great. I'm thinking about going back to see it again. You know what's wierd, when I first seen it last week, I took a hand full of tissue paper just in case I cry. Because my mom told me to go see it for Heath's sake and I was a bit reluctant. And so, I went and yes I enjoyed it very much. I'm not gonna lie;Heath stole the show. He was great in every scene he was in.
This may seem wierd but I actually could not hate his Joker at all. I mean, you know how people despise villains because they're evil and cold hearted? Well, the Joker in this movie was. He was frightening, scary, disturbing, and insane. BUT, he seemed very likeable and sympathetic, too. Plus, he's charming. And it's not just because of Heath but it's like the character he made him out to be. The Joker is a sadistic, pyschotic maniac but he's like a lonely, beat up creature. Tell me something. Is it wrong that I feel sorry for a crazed, murderous clown?

Offline BelAir

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Re: The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!
« Reply #161 on: July 28, 2008, 08:49:41 am »
I just came back from watching TDK again.  The theater was packed again, this the second weekend of its release.  I still thoroughly enjoyed the film and I find the Joker absolutely mesmerizing.  As with many comic book films, the villains seem to be the more interesting characters in their extreme quirkiness and fiendishness.  And, I can imagine that as an actor, the Joker really would be more fun to play than Batman. 

This time I feel like I was noticing more mannerisms in the portrayal of the Joker that may have been (probably were) subtle homages to Jack Nicholson (not necessarily specifically to Nicholson's Joker, but to some of the qualities of Nicholson's voice and certain mannerisms).  This, to me seems appropriate, given Nicholson's history with the Batman films and because, I feel like I've read somewhere, that Heath deeply admired Nicholson as an actor.

And, this time I was focused more on the fascinating dynamics between the Joker and Batman... Specifically the idea that the Joker had no intention of killing Batman.  And that the wry statement of the Joker's to Batman - "you complete me" - is probably very true... that they each need a nemisis to have a purpose (or something like that).  Or, that they represent an eternal struggle between good and evil.  Furthermore, it seems like the Joker much prefers to toy with Batman and torment him.

This idea of an ongoing struggle between the Joker and Batman seems to be set up pretty clearly during the Joker's last scene while he's dangling off the side of the building.  He says "I get the feeling you and I are destined to do this forever!"  Which to me implies that the Joker could easily come back.



On another totally different note... This time, since I'd already seen the film once, I could spend more time focusing on backgrounds and details, etc.  And, I noticed several very familiar buildings in Chicago!  In at least two different prominent shots I saw a large office building that my Dad used to work in a long time ago when I was a little girl!  And, right after leaving the theater I called my Dad to tell him about that, and he said that he actually saw some of the Batman filming sets and specifically lots of Gotham City police cars back when the film was shooting in Chicago.  I hadn't known that until today!  I'd never yet spoken to my Dad in depth about Batman until this afternoon.






I had that same feeling during that scene - and how great it would be to watch the Joker and Batman spar again and again.  But of course it can never happen again...  I'm currently of the feeling that I don't want the Joker to come back, ever.  Not without Heath.  Maybe when I'm old and gray I'll feel differently...

 ???
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Offline MaineWriter

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Re: The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!
« Reply #162 on: July 28, 2008, 09:28:50 am »
Here's a little Batman 101. There's lots more, including the "Is Batman gay?" discussion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman

Batman (originally referred to as the Bat-Man and still referred to at times as the Batman) is a fictional comic book superhero co-created by artist Bob Kane and writer Bill Finger (although only Kane receives official credit) and published by DC Comics. The character first appeared in Detective Comics #27 (May 1939).[1] Batman's secret identity is Bruce Wayne, a multi-billionaire industrialist, playboy, and philanthropist. Witnessing the murder of his parents as a child leads him to train himself to physical and intellectual perfection and don a bat-themed costume in order to fight crime. Batman operates in the fictional Gotham City, assisted by various supporting characters including his sidekick Robin and his butler Alfred Pennyworth, and fights an assortment of villains influenced by the characters' roots in film and pulp magazines. Unlike most superheroes, he does not possess any superpowers; he makes use of intellect, detective skills, science and technology, wealth, physical prowess, and torture in his war on crime.

Batman became a popular character soon after his introduction, and eventually gained his own title, Batman. As the decades wore on, differing takes on the character emerged. The late 1960s Batman television series utilized a camp aesthetic associated with the character for years after the show ended. Various creators worked to return the character to his dark roots, culminating in the 1986 miniseries Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, by writer-artist Frank Miller. The successes of director Tim Burton's 1989 Batman motion picture and Christopher Nolan's films Batman Begins and The Dark Knight also helped to reignite popular interest in the character. A cultural icon, Batman has been licensed and adapted into a variety of media, from radio to television and film, and appears on a variety of merchandise sold all over the world.
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!
« Reply #163 on: July 28, 2008, 09:33:21 am »
I had that same feeling during that scene - and how great it would be to watch the Joker and Batman spar again and again.  But of course it can never happen again...  I'm currently of the feeling that I don't want the Joker to come back, ever.  Not without Heath.  Maybe when I'm old and gray I'll feel differently...

 ???

Well, when I watched the movie again yesterday, as I posted above, I really noticed one of the Joker's last lines as he's hanging off the side of the building is - "I get the feeling you and I are destined to do this forever!"  If you google this line you'll find lots of references to TDK and the specific context too.

It feels like they were setting up the very clear possibility of another Joker sequel with that line (and the fact that we don't see the Joker die or even get arrested... and we know getting arrested is no big deal for the Joker anyway).

Given the grim and tragic circumstances with Heath, I don't know that Batman movie franchise people will want to make another Joker movie again anytime soon.  But, at the same time, as fantastic as Heath was in this role... so many actors, writers and illustrators have dealt with the character of the Joker over the history of Batman as a movie, TV show and comic book that I could easily see another actor taking on that role in the future.  


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Offline Ellemeno

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Re: The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!
« Reply #164 on: July 28, 2008, 10:26:58 am »
I went to K Mart yesterday (a large chain that sells everything from toys to clothes to shampoo), and the plastic bag the cashier put my stuff in had Batman/Dark Knight imagery on it.



Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!
« Reply #165 on: July 28, 2008, 10:34:08 am »
I went to K Mart yesterday (a large chain that sells everything from toys to clothes to shampoo), and the plastic bag the cashier put my stuff in had Batman/Dark Knight imagery on it.


That's neat (FWIW, this seems to be exactly the kind of movie that will have tons of silly promotional stuff associated with it). What kind of imagery was it? 

Here's a little Batman 101. There's lots more, including the "Is Batman gay?" discussion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batman

Batman (originally referred to as the Bat-Man and still referred to at times as the Batman) is a fictional comic book superhero co-created by artist Bob Kane and writer Bill Finger (although only Kane receives official credit) and published by DC Comics. The character first appeared in Detective Comics #27 (May 1939).[1] Batman's secret identity is Bruce Wayne, a multi-billionaire industrialist, playboy, and philanthropist. Witnessing the murder of his parents as a child leads him to train himself to physical and intellectual perfection and don a bat-themed costume in order to fight crime. Batman operates in the fictional Gotham City, assisted by various supporting characters including his sidekick Robin and his butler Alfred Pennyworth, and fights an assortment of villains influenced by the characters' roots in film and pulp magazines. Unlike most superheroes, he does not possess any superpowers; he makes use of intellect, detective skills, science and technology, wealth, physical prowess, and torture in his war on crime.

Batman became a popular character soon after his introduction, and eventually gained his own title, Batman. As the decades wore on, differing takes on the character emerged. The late 1960s Batman television series utilized a camp aesthetic associated with the character for years after the show ended. Various creators worked to return the character to his dark roots, culminating in the 1986 miniseries Batman: The Dark Knight Returns, by writer-artist Frank Miller. The successes of director Tim Burton's 1989 Batman motion picture and Christopher Nolan's films Batman Begins and The Dark Knight also helped to reignite popular interest in the character. A cultural icon, Batman has been licensed and adapted into a variety of media, from radio to television and film, and appears on a variety of merchandise sold all over the world.

Ah ha!  Thanks Leslie!!!  This answers one of my big questions about whether or not Batman has superpowers.  It's also interesting to learn that the nickname "the Dark Knight" has much longer roots associated with Batman than just this movie.

I wonder when the Joker was first introduced as one of Batmans villains given the very long history of Batman?

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Offline MaineWriter

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Re: The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!
« Reply #166 on: July 28, 2008, 10:48:20 am »
More Batman 101

The Joker is a fictional character that appears in comic books published by DC Comics. Created by Bill Finger, Bob Kane and Jerry Robinson, the character first appeared in Batman #1 (Spring 1940). The archenemy of the superhero Batman, the Joker is a master criminal whose characterization has varied from a violent and murderous sociopath, causing chaos and committing crimes for his own amusement, to a goofy and virtually harmless trickster-thief. Wizard magazine rated Joker as the greatest villain of all time.[2] The Joker's real identity is unknown, and there have been different takes on his origin; the most common variation depicts him as falling into a vat of chemicals which bleach his skin, turn his hair green and his lips bright red, giving him the appearance of a clown.

The character has appeared in numerous Batman related media; portrayed by Cesar Romero in the 1960s Batman television series; Jack Nicholson in the 1989 film Batman (Nicholson's version of the Joker ranks #45 in the American Film Institute's list of the top 50 film villains); voice actor Mark Hamill in the 1990s Batman: The Animated Series television series; and Heath Ledger in the 2008 Batman Begins sequel, The Dark Knight.

His first appearance:



More here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joker_(comics)
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Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!
« Reply #167 on: July 28, 2008, 10:54:04 am »
More Batman 101

The Joker is a fictional character that appears in comic books published by DC Comics. Created by Bill Finger, Bob Kane and Jerry Robinson, the character first appeared in Batman #1 (Spring 1940). The archenemy of the superhero Batman, the Joker is a master criminal whose characterization has varied from a violent and murderous sociopath, causing chaos and committing crimes for his own amusement, to a goofy and virtually harmless trickster-thief. Wizard magazine rated Joker as the greatest villain of all time.[2] The Joker's real identity is unknown, and there have been different takes on his origin; the most common variation depicts him as falling into a vat of chemicals which bleach his skin, turn his hair green and his lips bright red, giving him the appearance of a clown.

The character has appeared in numerous Batman related media; portrayed by Cesar Romero in the 1960s Batman television series; Jack Nicholson in the 1989 film Batman (Nicholson's version of the Joker ranks #45 in the American Film Institute's list of the top 50 film villains); voice actor Mark Hamill in the 1990s Batman: The Animated Series television series; and Heath Ledger in the 2008 Batman Begins sequel, The Dark Knight.

His first appearance:



More here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joker_(comics)

 ;D Thanks again Leslie!!  :-*

I'm feeling a strong urge to re-watch the Jack Nicholson Joker movie.  It would be really interesting to see that again with TDK in mind.  I remember I really liked the Nicholson movie, but at this point I recall very little about the specifics of that movie.




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Offline optom3

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Re: The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!
« Reply #168 on: July 29, 2008, 02:05:02 pm »
;D Thanks again Leslie!!  :-*

I'm feeling a strong urge to re-watch the Jack Nicholson Joker movie.  It would be really interesting to see that again with TDK in mind.  I remember I really liked the Nicholson movie, but at this point I recall very little about the specifics of that movie.






That is funny you should mention the Jack Nicholson joker. My whole family sat down to watch it last night.There is no comparison, IMO. The Jack version almost seems like a parody.I thought it was just my well known Heath bias, but no, all the family agreed. Much to my surprise my daughter went to seeTDK with a friend over the weekend. Iwould never have agreed but I did not know. Anyway she was not remotely scared, in fact she now wants to go to Tampa an hours drive away to see it on IMAX, she just loved it.
When we were watching the Jack version she went to her room half way through, having called it "lame" !!!! Both sons gave it the thumbs down.In fact it did me a big favour as they now can partly understand my Heath fixation.They were blown away by his joker. My oldest has watched Candy, but neither of the other 2, he loved that as well, and just said what a waste.

Offline Brown Eyes

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Re: The Dark Knight: News, Reviews, your Views. "SPOILERS" welcome!
« Reply #169 on: July 29, 2008, 02:11:18 pm »


Yes, I suspect that there really are huge differences (based on what I recall from the Nicholson version)... especially the overall style of the movie.  As we see from some of Leslie's reporting... the Joker is sometimes portrayed in a goofy/ campy way and sometimes very sinister.  In the Nicholson version it's clear the campy version is what they were after.

Having seen TDK twice now, I really do think there are moments when Heath is taking some vocal cues from Nicholson.  Not necessarily specifically Nicholson's Joker... but Nicholson's general sort of raspy-airy way of speaking.  And, even some of the sing-songiness of Nicholson's typical speech pattern comes through in Heath's Joker's voice I think.  The way Heath does it, the voice comes out sounding very innovative... but I really do think he was probably occasionally making a little hommage to Nicholson (since I gather Heath really respected Nicholson anyway).



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